Cosmic Garou + Saitama mftl+ change?

[ZillertheBucko]

Sorry Kachon
The current calc for mftl+ is invalid, for one simple reason
it uses garou's reaction time under the assumption that he was blitzed, however, as is clearly shown in the scan on the profile, garou was clearly able to scream after getting hit and before even bouncing off a rock ONCE
Even IF he were really blitzed here for some reason, there is no evidence to assume that he was blitzed across the ENTIRETY of IO

In other words, there are two options here

1. A downgrade, back to ftl
2. The CORRECT option, we just take the mid end instead, since there's no real argument against it
the shockwaves were clearly frozen, and the previous low end was an incredibly massive lowball of the feat to begin with


Agree:
Disagree:

:

 

[Quangotjokes]

Disagree

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Disagree

You
not only did you not say what you were disagreeing with, you didn't even HINT as to why, you gave absolutely no reasoning whatsoever, you literally just said "disagree"
get out

 

[Kin201]

I thought the 0.0001 seconds is calc stacking. Technically, we don't know the timeframe of this feat.

Following btw.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Disagree

Well shit, I hadn’t considered this argument.

Jokes aside the OP is fine, neutral about whether we choose a different end or go back to FTL since that’d require more discussion.

 

[Braking]

Disagree

Shit this really turned the tables…… i disagree as well..

 

[Quangotjokes]

You
not only did you not say what you were disagreeing with, you didn't even HINT as to why, you gave absolutely no reasoning whatsoever, you literally just said "disagree"
get out

He was blitzed, he even comments that Saitama was just showing off his "Ridiculous physical strength"

Even through of his sense of direction.

 

[Sisyphusx]

or go back to FTL

That would be a very wrong thing to do

we just take the mid end instead, since there's no real argument against it
the shockwaves were clearly frozen, and the previous low end was an incredibly massive lowball of the feat to begin with

This seems fine

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I thought the 0.0001 seconds is calc stacking. Technically, we don't know the timeframe of this feat.

Following btw.

The .0001 timeframe doesn’t come from a calc, it’s from the plat sperm fight since the wiki only allowed canon reaction times to be used in other calcs, using reaction time derived from a calc is calc stacking, but confirmed statements of that level of perception is fair game

He was blitzed,

proof?

he even comments that Saitama was just showing off his "Ridiculous physical strength"

Yes, and he clearly did by being able to ragdoll him
where was he blitzed exactly? Was it when he audibly reacted in pain to being punched, before he even began to get juggled around?

 

[Aachintya31]

Disagree with the OP
It's debatable if it's a speed blitz but saying that he screamed so it's not a speed blitz is a little sus.The speed blitz page says irl bullet hitting a person is an example of speed blitz and I guess people scream after getting hit by a bullet.

 

[Sisyphusx]

I guess people scream after getting hit by a bullet.

I don't think so

 

[Kin201]

Is it just me or these ends' values are too high?

Mid End (Shockwaves seem frozen timeframe): 240468121.11908/0.00000291545 = 275125.731c / MFTL+

High End ("Shockwaves" are light, as they were called light structures in 155): 240468121.11908/0.0000000000433633324 = 18497547800c / MFTL+

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Disagree with the OP
It's debatable if it's a speed blitz but saying that he screamed so it's not a speed blitz is a little sus.The speed blitz page says irl bullet hitting a person is an example of speed blitz and I guess people scream after getting hit by a bullet.

What
Screaming AFTER a bullet hits you doesnt mean anything
are you serious bruh

 

[Romeu08]

I would say going back to ftl would make sense, we have no idea of the timeframe or if everything there was done in an instant

The shockwaves shown was more of a representation of saitama smacking him around than a light structure like a few chapters before

A faster than ftl character smacking a slower ftl character over an unspecified period of time will reach the same result and we can't ignore this

 

[ZillertheBucko]

On second thought, I think it'd be best for a calc group discussion to be made in regards to revisiting the mid end, but as for the main proposal of removing the low end mftl+, that can be handled in this thread

 

[Duedate8898]

I don't see how screaming after getting hit disproves the calc? He doesn't scream before getting hit or anything like that, and Garou himself is unsure whether or not he's following Saitama's afterimages. I feel like that's a clear case for him getting blitzed

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I don't see how screaming after getting hit disproves the calc? He doesn't scream before getting hit or anything like that, and Garou himself is unsure whether or not he's following Saitama's afterimages. I feel like that's a clear case for him getting blitzed

Not only is the logic here completely wrong, but I also directly addressed this in the original post but, whatever
Even if garou was blitzed by Saitama’s punch itself, there is no evidence to suggest that in the full feat garou was blitzed when bouncing through the ENTIRETY OF IO, so it’s still a completely non provable timeframe
but the main issue with this is that you completely ignore the point of him screaming. It proves that garou was able to react to being hit BEFORE he even bounced to the rocks
there is absolutely 0 shot of him having been blitzed, there’s a negative amount of evidence for it.
If you get launched to the other side of the planet at massively faster than light speeds, then you are not gonna have time to scream before you make it there, assuming you were actually blitzed to begin with. The end.

 

[Kachon123]

I disagree with the thread.

The reasoning for the currently used timeframe isn't because Garou really even got blitzed. Not only could Garou not even see Saitama or even fight back until after the constellation was made (even then he still couldn't see Saitama), but the timeframe comes from Garou casually moving. He's able to see, react, and fight against things and people moving around in such a short timeframe. If he wasn't able to do that to Saitama, then we this timeframe is still usable.

The basis of this thread and interpretation of the calc itself is flawed.

 

[Kachon123]

Jokes aside the OP is fine, neutral about whether we choose a different end or go back to FTL since that’d require more discussion.

Can you read the reasons above? I'd rather not drag this thread longer than it should, as I've already had this conversation in and on site tens of times with CGMs and other staff.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Can you read the reasons above? I'd rather not drag this thread longer than it should, as I've already had this conversation in and on site tens of times with CGMs and other staff.

Yeah I disagree with this thread after recent arguments

 

[CloverDragon03]

I disagree with the thread.

The reasoning for the currently used timeframe isn't because Garou really even got blitzed. Not only could Garou not even see Saitama or even fight back until after the constellation was made (even then he still couldn't see Saitama), but the timeframe comes from Garou casually moving. He's able to see, react, and fight against things and people moving around in such a short timeframe. If he wasn't able to do that to Saitama, then we this timeframe is still usable.

The basis of this thread and interpretation of the calc itself is flawed.

This makes sense to me, plus screaming after being hit means literally nothing in terms of disproving the calc

So yeah, I disagree with the OP

 

[Damage3245]

The 0.0001 second timeframe can't be used for the entire sequence of movement. There's no basis for that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I thought the 0.0001 seconds is calc stacking. Technically, we don't know the timeframe of this feat.

I don't think it's calc stacking since the timeframe comes from in-universe numbers, but the justification is off. It would have to be "Garou's minimum canon reaction time is 0.0001 seconds" rather than "well Saitama > PS and AG so it should happen in one panel of timeframe"

 

[Kachon123]

The 0.0001 second timeframe can't be used for the entire sequence of movement. There's no basis for that.

No basis? Did you not read what I just wrote?

Can you explain why the timeframe can't be used?

 

[Kachon123]

I don't think it's calc stacking since the timeframe comes from in-universe numbers, but the justification is off. It would have to be "Garou's minimum canon reaction time is 0.0001 seconds" rather than "well Saitama > PS and AG so it should happen in one panel of timeframe"

Is that not what we use? That's what I had in mind when calcing this feat, so if that's not what is reflected in the profiles, then that can be fixed.

 

[Damage3245]

No basis? Did you not read what I just wrote?

Can you explain why the timeframe can't be used?

Garou being blitzed by Saitama when he punches him thousands of times across Io =/= Saitama performed the entire movement in 0.0001 seconds.

Garou is being overwhelmed and blitzed multiple times in a sequence; it isn't all one single movement done by Saitama before Garou can perceive what is going on.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is that not what we use?

No, read your justification for the calc

Low End (Garou-Platinum Sperm single sequence timeframe):

Your calc is saying "A single panel of Garou vs PS was 0.0001 seconds, so let's assume that Saitama's feat happened in that same timeframe".

 

[Kachon123]

Your calc is saying "A single panel of Garou vs PS was 0.0001 seconds, so let's assume that Saitama's feat happened in that same timeframe".

if that's not what is reflected in the profiles, then that can be fixed.

 

[Sus]

2. The CORRECT option, we just take the mid end instead, since there's no real argument against it
the shockwaves were clearly frozen, and the previous low end was an incredibly massive lowball of the feat to begin with

No

 

[Damage3245]

No, read your justification for the calc

Your calc is saying "A single panel of Garou vs PS was 0.0001 seconds, so let's assume that Saitama's feat happened in that same timeframe".

Exactly.

This timeframe justification is just "Garou could fight Platinum Sperm in 0.0001 seconds, but Saitama punches Garou thousands of times across the surface of Io without Garou being able to fight back so it all must have taken place in 0.0001 seconds"... when that doesn't have to be remotely true.

 

[Qawsedf234]

This timeframe justification is just "Garou could fight Platinum Sperm in 0.0001 seconds, but Saitama punches Garou thousands of times across the surface of Io without Garou being able to fight back so it all must have taken place in 0.0001 seconds"... when that doesn't have to be remotely true.

I guess alt ends of like, the centisecond and millisecond numbers wouldn't be bad, but I'm not sure how well justified 0.0001 second figure is.

The shockwave figures can't be used because they're in the vacuum of space. There's nothing there for a shockwave to travel through.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The reasoning for the currently used timeframe isn't because Garou really even got blitzed. Not only could Garou not even see Saitama or even fight back until after the constellation was made (even then he still couldn't see Saitama)

All this shows is that saitama was able to blitz garou repeatedly
Saitama punches garou to rock A before he can react, then to rock B before he can react
what you're doing is inflating the calc to an insane degree by saying Saitama punched garou to rock A AND rock B in the same instance, without any evidence whatsoever. The fact that he was able to scream AFTER being punched by saitama means he was able to react to being punched before he actually lands on the rocks, even if the punch itself blitzes him, the .0001 timeframe would only at best apply to going from rock A to rock B
more accurately, you're saying that because saitama can blitz garou, he must be able to blitz him across IO in the same timeframe, an incredibly blatant fallacy. I know that saitama blitzed garou, but he wasn't blitzed across the whole distance, as BLATANTLY EVIDENCED BY HIM YELLING BEFORE LANDING ON THE ROCK, therfore, the .0001 timeframe does not apply

 

[Kachon123]

The shockwave figures can't be used because they're in the vacuum of space. There's nothing there for a shockwave to travel through.

Io has a thin atmosphere made mainly of Sulfure dioxide

 

[Qawsedf234]

Io has a thin atmosphere made mainly of Sulfure dioxide

Said atmosphere was demolished when Saitama did the table flip.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Io has a thin atmosphere made mainly of Sulfure dioxide

seems good enough to me
the atmosphere's content should still be there even if it was broken up, hence the shockwaves existing in the first place
I say we go with the mid end

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Io has a thin atmosphere made mainly of Sulfure dioxide

The speed of a shockwave would definitely be different then

 

[Kachon123]

Said atmosphere was demolished when Saitama did the table flip.

?

 

[Qawsedf234]

seems good enough to me

The formula wouldn't work. Shockwaves don't have a set speed and the atmosphere it's moving through would influence speed. Using some generic figure without a justification wouldn't work.

Just use the 0.0013 figure or the 0.5 second figure in my view.

 

[Kachon123]

Just use the 0.0013 figure or the 0.5 second figure in my view.

For the timeframe?