Conan vs Shion Remake (better neutral)

[Abu2411]

1 vote for shion.

please keep in mind they're using the whole school and there are a ton of hiding places.

also conan has knowledge plus of her. but she has knowledge as well.

also can shion deal with his durability? (it says his durability can be up to 9-B as well as his Ap or will that be negated by the ak's piercing damage?)

1. Yes, a ton of hiding places, none of which can hide Conan from Shion's enhanced senses

2. I addressed this already. This was part of my argument.

3. Yes, not only have AK-47s been used to kill bears, but Conan's durability is dependent on his shoes.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

1. Yes, a ton of hiding places, none of which can hide Conan from Shion's enhanced senses

2. I addressed this already. This was part of my argument.

3. Yes, not only have AK-47s been used to kill bears, but Conan's durability is dependent on his shoes.

we're using her teenage version not her adult mion version

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

but i guess you already understand that.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Something like a school would work because Conan have many places to hide and higher chance to plan his way out.

james what do you think of abu's reasoning?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

go tell james abu

1. Yes, a ton of hiding places, none of which can hide Conan from Shion's enhanced senses

2. I addressed this already. This was part of my argument.

3. Yes, not only have AK-47s been used to kill bears, but Conan's durability is dependent on his shoes.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Sounds fair, but I know 0 about Conan.

Ovy7 can you reason with abu?

 

[Abu2411]

I'll call up James on his wall.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I don't know much about either characters, but Shion seems stronger physically, while Conan is the smarter and more resourceful one.

I'd bet on Conan KOing or using a gadget first than Shion and doing it better, but if Shion somehow gets close, Conan can kiss his behind bye-bye.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I don't know much about either characters, but Shion seems stronger physically, while Conan is the smarter and more resourceful one.

I'd bet on Conan KOing or using a gadget first than Shion and doing it better, but if Shion somehow gets close, Conan can kiss his behind bye-bye.

okay though wouldn't 9-B one shot? (i mean his shoes can be up to 9-B kicking power)

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Not exactly, it depends on where they land and a lot of other stuff.

She is Street level, and from Conan's profile, it seems like a really low end of Wall level. Someone of Street level durability can tank a low-end Wall attack, it'd just be a serious blow to take.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Not exactly, it depends on where they land and a lot of other stuff.

She is Street level, and from Conan's profile, it seems like a really low end of Wall level. Someone of Street level durability can tank a low-end Wall attack, it'd just be a serious blow to take.

yeah i can understand but i mean conan can set his shoes up to wall level if he wants. his durability can also be wall level. (though the piercing of ak can mitigate that)

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well, even serious blow can stunt her, no? Conan can aimed it to her head if needed

 

[Abu2411]

I don't know much about either characters, but Shion seems stronger physically, while Conan is the smarter and more resourceful one.

I'd bet on Conan KOing or using a gadget first than Shion and doing it better, but if Shion somehow gets close, Conan can kiss his behind bye-bye.

No. The effective firing range of an AK is 350 metres. With her Enhanced Senses, Shion can find out where Conan hides and shoot him.

Read my first post.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

No. The effective firing range of an AK is 350 metres. With her Enhanced Senses, Shion can find out where Conan hides and shoot him.

Read my first post.

There's cover, and the level of Enhanced Senses isn't clarified in the profile.

Well, even serious blow can stunt her, no? Conan can aimed it to her head if needed

Well, yes, but it requires him hitting a specific place in the right way. She won't just stay put and let him kick her lights out.

 

[Abu2411]

There's cover, and the level of Enhanced Senses isn't clarified in the profile.

Well, yes, but it requires him hitting a specific place in the right way. She won't just stay put and let him kick her lights out.

True. That is something the profile should fix, but her senses downscale from Keiichi, who could sense all the sounds in an entire forest and has 360 degree awareness.

In an otherwise quiet school, Shion will notice Conan's whereabouts quicker than he could.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

True. That is something the profile should fix, but her senses downscale from Keiichi, who could sense all the sounds in an entire forest and has 360 degree awareness.

In an otherwise quiet school, Shion will notice Conan's whereabouts quicker than he could.

There's still some things to consider.

One is that, at least from what I understood in the OP, they start seeing each other and aware of each other. At that point, and considering that they are fighting effectively really close in relation to her ES level, it simply wouldn't matter much as both of them would be aware of each other in any case. Of course, that makes him hiding from her impossible, but he doesn't really need to hide. He needs to take cover, and once he has cover, he can wait until she gets close enough for him to use a gadget, although not close enough to a melee kill.

The second thing I should've considered is that suppressing fire is a thing... Now I'm a bit unsure. If she keeps spraying while getting close, the moment he jumps out of cover is a moment he gets gunned down, and if she gets really close, she dominates the melee.

Now I think I may be leaning to Shion...

 

[Abu2411]

There's still some things to consider.

One is that, at least from what I understood in the OP, they start seeing each other and aware of each other. At that point, and considering that they are fighting effectively really close in relation to her ES level, it simply wouldn't matter much as both of them would be aware of each other in any case. Of course, that makes him hiding from her impossible, but he doesn't really need to hide. He needs to take cover, and once he has cover, he can wait until she gets close enough for him to use a gadget, although not close enough to a melee kill.

The second thing I should've considered is that suppressing fire is a thing... Now I'm a bit unsure. If she keeps spraying while getting close, the moment he jumps out of cover is a moment he gets gunned down, and if she gets really close, she dominates the melee.

Now I think I may be leaning to Shion...

My dude, what cover in a school could provide defense against an AK? I'm assuming they start of in a classroom.

Shion would not waste any time and instantly go for the shot, but Conan does have his darts. These darts however, have inferior range and as you said, they are mitigated through Shion's suppression fire.

I was responding to James who said that Conan would hide first. Which he probably would do, if he could.

Shion is a school shooter, and Conan is going to be the victim.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

My dude, what cover in a school could provide defense against an AK? I'm assuming they start of in a classroom.

Shion would not waste any time and instantly go for the shot, but Conan does have his darts. These darts however, have inferior range and as you said, they are mitigated through Shion's suppression fire.

I was responding to James who said that Conan would hide first. Which he probably would do, if he could.

Shion is a school shooter, and Conan is going to be the victim.

I assumed a hallway, and a wall or concrete supporting pillar is a good cover.

 

[Abu2411]

I assumed a hallway, and a wall or concrete supporting pillar is a good cover.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Is she ever wielded AK-47 before?

 

[Abu2411]

It's part of her standard Equipment. She is stated to be more skilled than a highly trained assasin who could snip someone from 400m away.

As such, I think it makes reasonable sense that Shion would be well-schooled in the weapons that she has.

 

[Ovy7]

Is she ever wielded AK-47 before?

Yes. IIRC, she used it to kill a bunch of infected people in one of the console arcs.

Edit: She's the daughter of a Yakuza leader, for anyone wondering how she'll know how to use a gun.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

That's weird, is that happened in the anime?

 

[Ovy7]

That's weird, is that happened in the anime?

It's from the VN, tho IIRC it got an anime movie after it, but I haven't watched it to say if that's in the movie (cause apparently the movie is shit).

 

[Abu2411]

I should really finish off the VN. I'm so close to completing it. Then I would have read pretty much all of O7's works

 

[Ovy7]

I should really finish off the VN. I'm so close to completing it. Then I would have read pretty much all of O7's works

Higurashi also has like 10-15 other adjacent arcs, some being alternative versions of the main arcs, others being about other characters close to the main ones, and others being backstories.

Tho you don't really need to read those too. . .

 

[Abu2411]

Higurashi also has like 10-15 other adjacent arcs, some being alternative versions of the main arcs, others being about other characters close to the main ones, and others being backstories.

Tho you don't really need to read those too. . .

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

one more vote please

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

abu are you gonna change your vote?

 

[Abu2411]

abu are you gonna change your vote?

Why would I?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

why don't you ask james on his profile

 

[Abu2411]

why don't you ask james on his profile

I did.

I am dying rn though I really need sleep.

Besides I think Elimator Venom was leaning towards Shion.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

The battlefield now place take in a school so Conan have better chance at this. I remember that Conan once aim dodging a sniper in a movie and have escaped being at gunpoint few times, there is many places to hide so he won't have to worry about getting shot at sight.

Both have knowledge on each other so Conan are aware of Shion mental state so he can use it against her by provoking her then lurking her into a trap. I don't know much about her character but going by the profile, i'd assuming that she's gonna underestimate him due to him being a child and this will grant Conan time to explore her mind and set up a plan. However, Shion are very good with guns and enhanced senses so it won't be easy.

I vote for Conan mid diff, he can found a way to defeat her due to able think more rational and his weapons can knocked her out instantly. Until a Higurashi supporters can debunk my argument, that is.

james we want to know what you think of abu's reasoning?

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Disclaimer: I have not finished watching Case Closed and I don't know much about the manga, so my information will be coming from solely his profile.

Can you provide further context to Conan's aim dodging feats? preferably a video/scan. I agree that she won't have the ability to instantly shoot Conan on sight, because he does have a few hiding spots, but assuming Shion is armed with an AK-47, what hiding spots are there for Conan which could protect him from the weapon?

I disagree that Shion would underestimate Conan. They both have knowledge of each other. And while Conan is smarter than Shion of course, she isn't a bumbling idiot, but a careful, methodical killer, who has the clear advantage in both physical stats and martial arts, on top of her enhanced senses which would be used to find a young boy in an otherwise empty, quiet school.

Conan does have his tranquiliser darts, and I think his fight plan is to hide and snipe her with it, using his glasses to make sure he can see Shion and not opting to go for his running shoes as getting up close to Shion would be suicide. You don't do that to someone who not only has an Avtomat Kalashnikova but also enhanced senses to see you coming yesterday.

An AK's range effective firing range is 350m, compared to several metres with Conan's darts.

For these reasons, I believe Shion Sonozaki takes this.

This and this, not to mention Conan got extremely fast reaction as he can kick his balls before the enemy can act so he clearly can aim dodge Shion guns now that he got prior knowledge. School have many rooms and corners which Conan used thank to his small figure, and the inside would be more difficult to shoot him than a open space. One of the video above shown that his balls can travel as long as a bullet is so range matter less for him.

Yes i'm aware that however Conan also know about her mental state. Provoking or prolonging the fight could eventually lead to Shion become frustrated and careless then Conan can take advantage to lead her to a trap. Granted, i'm not a psychology expert or anything but the so-called Hinamizawa Syndrome is a major problem when she's unable to kill a little boy who constantly poking her around. Her enhanced senses are not explicit elaborated but Conan have his glasses too so it's a tie.

This is why i said Conan have mid diff winning this matches, i'm aware of Shion capabilities based on her profile and the only thing that heavily depend on Conan wincon are Shion's mentality which are his biggest advantage. If Shion are something like the Black Organization member, cold and merciless killer with almost no fault then Conan chance are reduced to lowest.

 

[Abu2411]

This and this, not to mention Conan got extremely fast reaction as he can kick his balls before the enemy can act so he clearly can aim dodge Shion guns now that he got prior knowledge. School have many rooms and corners which Conan used thank to his small figure, and the inside would be more difficult to shoot him than a open space. One of the video above shown that his balls can travel as long as a bullet is so range matter less for him.

Yes i'm aware that however Conan also know about her mental state. Provoking or prolonging the fight could eventually lead to Shion become frustrated and careless then Conan can take advantage to lead her to a trap. Granted, i'm not a psychology expert or anything but the so-called Hinamizawa Syndrome is a major problem when she's unable to kill a little boy who constantly poking her around. Her enhanced senses are not explicit elaborated but Conan have his glasses too so it's a tie.

This is why i said Conan have mid diff winning this matches, i'm aware of Shion capabilities based on her profile and the only thing that heavily depend on Conan wincon are Shion's mentality which are his biggest advantage. If Shion are something like the Black Organization member, cold and merciless killer with almost no fault then Conan chance are reduced to lowest.

1. In the first one the bullets simply missed. It's the same thing with stormtroopers in Star Wars. In the second one, it's the same case, the sniper missed a moving target. Most of Conan's kicks are on surprised opponents. He won't be aim repeated fire from someone with an AK-47 bent on killing you. Being in a closed space means there isn't much room for Conan to run away or hide, so that's actually a point for Shion. Again, Shion's enhanced senses would tell her the exact location of Conan since her senses slightly downscale from Keiichi. I have no idea what you mean its a tie because of Conan's glasses. Shion has a far superior range so she will benefit the most out of her enhanced senses.

2. Is this mental state argument the main reason for Conan winning? I really do think you are inadvertently exaggerating this weakness of Shion's. If anything, her anger would just make her more bloodlusted. A better argument you could make if I was you would be that Conan somehow angers Shion and she somehow empties an entire magazine clip thus has to reload making her vulnerable. But even this has problems considering the fact that Shion also has a taser and superior martial skill and physical ability.

To summarise:

• Shion is armed with a lethal weapon, an AK-47, which can essentially one-shot him and has automatic fire. Its effective firing range is several hundred metres compared to several metres for Conan's darts.
• Shion's enhanced senses can give her the location of Conan in the school. He cannot hide. This is, of course, assuming he will be able to hide in the first place as EliminatorVenom pointed out.
• Tying back to the superior range Shion enjoys, most of Conan's gear becomes a non-issue. It simply cannot reach her.
• Assuming they start off near each other, there is nothing stopping Shion from unloading on Conan straight away. Conan's kick shoes require him to charge up the kick, which wouldn't take long, but it won't be as fast as Shion simply pressing a trigger.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Those guys in first video were member of Black Organization which are very good marksman as well and they were trained to eliminate target with high precise yet Conan manage to outran them abeit a close one, you don't expect someone to escaped storm of bullet with little injury. The guy in second video were snipping from hundred meters away but Conan manage to avoid it, again this isn't something easy to pull off. Yeah most of them isn't aware of his balls but some of them are completely bent on killing him and he win in the end. There is many times where the murderer are very close to commit their act or in seemingly impossible situations like mid-air before Conan balls hit them. All of this to proven Conan quick reaction and he know to act when the situation call for.

Conan glasses have radar, telescopic functions and night vision so he won't be waiting for her. It benefit him as much as Shion is because he kick his balls as far as a bullet is. Actually, since Conan know about her enhanced senses and guns he'll know not to make direct confrontation. The best way is running around and luring her to a spot which he could kick his soccer balls. His skateboard are a part of standard equipment so that will help. Shion have superior range but so is Conan balls, as you seen in the video they travel pretty far. With SBA play in, the location would give Conan some time to close the distance between each other or find a spot which allow him to knock her without being too close.

Like i said, i'm no expert on psychology so i'd figure that it would give Conan something like taking the advantage of her mentally then striking in a vulnerable moment. Although, when think again i believe he would be better off playing chasing game then take her out in a planned spot.