(Complete Saint Seiya verse Overhaul Part 1) - Perhaps one of the top 10 most ambitious overhauls to a verse in vswiki history?

[Hasty12345]

Good, but could you focus on the elephant in the giant room here?

What’s the elephant?

I personally think all the abilities being proposed are far more contentious than 5D anything. AFAIK, this isn’t even the only evidence for 5D stuff.

what I find hilarious is that the better half of 4 pages was an argument as to if 2 of the current abilities should stay or go

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

What’s the elephant?

I personally think all the abilities being proposed are far more contentious than 5D anything. AFAIK, this isn’t even the only evidence for 5D stuff.

what I find hilarious is that the better half of 4 pages was an argument as to if 2 of the current abilities should stay or go

About 5D, I think this is a slang here in Brazil to impose importance on the main subject, I saw it in a comic

I'm fine with the other stuff, but that's all right, 4 long pages about type 4 or 5 immortality, isn't it?

 

[Hasty12345]

About 5D, I think this is a slang here in Brazil to impose importance on the main subject, I saw it in a comic

I'm fine with the other stuff, but that's all right, 4 long pages about type 4 or 5 immortality, isn't it?

It’s a common English expression, I was just confused at to what the elephant was here because this CRT has many topics

type 4 immortality and low godly regen is what the biggest point of discussion has been

 

[Hasty12345]

bump

 

[Hasty12345]

can I bump again after 4 hours?

 

[Ped2018]

can I bump again after 4 hours?

Nah, it's 24 hours

 

[Hasty12345]

Nah, it's 24 hours

oh, mb

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Alright I'm only gonna comment on a few things here, the others I don't really care for.



What part of the explanation gives this type 2? I don't see anything about being neither existing nor not existing, plus I don't see anything about Conceptual and Information stuff being nonexistent here, and lastly the fact that their bodies are still there shoots NEP in the foot here since you need to lack a physical body for you to get NEP.

Are you looking for a hard quote for nonexistence? one does exist in the verse but it mostly applies to gods who have far surpassed the 9th sense.

To my understanding from what i been told, Type 2 NEP can be granted in a variety of ways one of which is being/becoming more nonexistent than nonexistence.

As for the conceptual part its because Karma could in theory be a Type 1 Concept which is stored in the 8th sense and that is destroyed upon awakening to the 9th sense.

The informational part is because all of Saint Seiya Verse reality is composed of a primordial nothingness and primordial chaos called "Dunamis." it is the foundational building block of the whole verse. This "nothingness" and "Chaos" that composes their existence is destroyed upon awakening to the 9th sense.

Their bodies allows them to affect the world in a physical sense, and their physical bodies aren't even needed at this point. The 8th sense allows them to exist without the need of a body, but to affect and be perceived by the physical world they would need to either "deactivate" this power, use a more indirect method of manipulating the world, or possess a physical body.

The whole plot point of the 9th sense is achieving a state of nothingness (not directly stated but thats what is very heavily implied with the many showing it has)

Yeah I'm not seeing dimensional manipulation here. The scans just sounds more like the old HDM standards which aren't a thing anymore so...

well thinking about this scan. I think its just reactive evolution becuase the character the realm should be controlled by straight up said "he adapted to this dimension."

Sooo can you show where it's stated that they're an unchangeable entity because of the fact that they're beyond causality itself? Because you need the two to be connected for it to qualify as type 5.

thats the whole point of the 8th sense. its based in Buddhism. This ability would be limited to only the Soul and The Mind of a character, but to give you examples.

The true nature of the world in Saint Seiya is impermanence/transience here is a second scan for that.

everything is in a state of constant change. Here is a second scan that says everything is changing

The point of the 8th sense is to become "unchangeable" so that these constant changes in the universe will no longer apply to these users. This was explained by buddha in the series when talking to a young shaka. [here] and then shaka reexplained this when he was reduced to a soul [here]

Anything about this Karma thing existing prior to reality? Because there's no scans for that.

According to my understanding and what was explained to me in the past, there are other ways to show a concept is "independent of reality."

Karma is shown to be the force that drives the multiverse through "change." It also causes Universes in the multiverse to disappear showing that it is independent of these realities. even if all of them disappear the concept would still exist, as it even has an affect on the primordial nothignnes, and primordial chaos that existed before the multiverse.

Edit: Sorry for the really late response. Life has been kicking me over.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I read through the OP though haven't read the entire blogs or rest of the thread, but it looks alright from a glance so far.

 

[Theglassman12]

@TheUnshakableOne you’d have to be more nonexistent than the concept of nonexistence itself if you wanna use that for type 2 NEP. Without that it’s just type 1 NEP.

Can I see some scans on Karma being able to function independently from reality?

yeah that’s not really Informational stuff, you need information itself as the building block of reality to be stated if you want it to be included.

So this is basically a situational NEP at best then if they still need a body to do something.

that sounds more like they adapted to whatever side effects the dungeon has more than just them controlling dimensional planes in a variety of ways.

Yeah I’m still not seeing type 5 here. You’re missing the connection that they become unchangeable because that they’re beyond causality itself. Without that it won’t be enough for type 5.

So Karma and this primordial chaos are comparable with one another? I’d like to see some scans if there are any cause if that’s the case with them being comparable and the latter able to exist prior to reality being a thing then I can see type 1.

It’s fine, life’s got me occupied with a lot of shit too.

 

[Vietthai96]

NEP2 isn't just being more than conceptual non-existent, that just being higher degree of NEP1, more layer, etc....NEP2 require you being even beyond existent and non-existent, that why the page write NEP have a low degree of transduality. Also conceptually nonexistent or not isn't that matter anymore, it belong to aspect type, not nature type

 

[Xxiaa]

Bump

 

[Hasty12345]

Bump

you should only bump once every 24 hours

 

[Dereck03]

I was told to take a look at this, but as always I'm more interested in the NEP, Why this is Type 2?

To my understanding from what i been told, Type 2 NEP can be granted in a variety of ways one of which is being/becoming more nonexistent than nonexistence.

No, that would only be a higher level of NEP depending on the type at which the rating is set previously, the "Dunamis" referred to here would only be a type 1 and mainly I see no correlation between it and the "9th sense", there is no clarification that the 9th sense is a transdual non-existence or that proves that it is not the same or something simply of a higher degree than the "dunamis". (Take a look at Yogiri's case)

Simply put, the 9th sense alone is something superior that is never clarified as non-existence or superior to the non-existence of the "dunamis".

@Theglassman12 i saw you disagreeing with other stuffs... May i get a TL; DR of the other things discussed here?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Question for the staff that comment here on this thread.

Considering the sheer length of the blogs, and how clustered this CRT got.

It appears Low 1-C, immeasurable speed, and the canon blog has enough to pass.

for the abilities that the 8th and 9th sense could potentially grant, i think it might be better to do those on a separate new and fresh CRT.

Would this be fine?

a

b

c

d

e

 

[StekFence]

Yes please, the 5d stuff is practically non contentious it seems

 

[Xxiaa]

Question for the staff that comment here on this thread.

Considering the sheer length of the blogs, and how clustered this CRT got.

It appears Low 1-C, immeasurable speed, and the canon blog has enough to pass.

for the abilities that the 8th and 9th sense could potentially grant, i think it might be better to do those on a separate new and fresh CRT.

Would this be fine?

Don’t forget @Executor_N0 who voiced their opinion on the 5-D stuff

 

[Vietthai96]

Too long for me to read, but what is the reason for Immeasurable speed??

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Too long for me to read, but what is the reason for Immeasurable speed??

Reality fiction difference with the multiverse, time, and all causality (past, present, future of all worlds.) via their mind

 

[Quantu]

I appreciate a lot of work has gone into this, I just wonder if it could've been split up into a series of CRTs starting in order from most important (Cosmology, Tier 1, Karma stuff etc.)

It makes it easier to engage with, less overwhelming for staff and regular users, and overall would probably increase activity in these threads.

Anyways I agree with the Tier 1 Soul/Mind stuff.

 

[Hasty12345]

Trust me we had this convo

The canon stuff and tier 1 stuff needed to be together but everything below that could have waited IMO

 

[Quantu]

The canon stuff and tier 1 stuff needed to be together but everything below that could have waited IMO

True. I suppose it is what it is.

It's just that clicking on Unshakeable's 2 blogs is very intimidating

 

[Robo432343]

via their mind

and not by their speed???

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

and not by their speed???

Gods outspeed 8th sense users

But for 8th sense users, yeah, not with their speed.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Reality fiction difference with the multiverse, time, and all causality (past, present, future of all worlds.) via their mind

that doesn't sound immeasurable. you need actual feat of them moving at a linear time. at best that only grants BDE Type 2 (though unlikely if they still possess spatial existence) on 4D and not immeasurable
them being transcendent to the multiverse time and all of past present and future could also be attributed to range rather than speed or omnipresence if they exist across the entire thing

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

that doesn't sound immeasurable. you need actual feat of them moving at a linear time. at best that only grants BDE Type 2 on 4D and not immeasurable
them being transcendent to the multiverse time and all of past present and future could also be attributed to range rather than speed or omnipresence if they exist across the entire thing

Other characters on the wiki got immeasurable speed reactions with exact same reasoning...

BB of ccc is a good example

 

[Robo432343]

BB of ccc is a good example

outdated???

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

outdated???

Ultima evaluated it, and iirc he still defended it on a recent thread

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Other characters on the wiki got immeasurable speed reactions with exact same reasoning...

BB of ccc is a good example

then what about Gods having full immeasurable?
Reaction seems fine since BB basically experienced entire timeline in an instant and simulated it
idk if that a 1:1 comparison here as i do not know much about 8th sense and them perceiving reality
because experiencing the entire multiverse reality across past present and future is different from merely perceiving it and knowing it

 

[StekFence]

Gods blitz 8th sense users to a level it’s not even funny. If 8th sense gets immeas perception, Gods def have a stupidly faster combat speed

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Gods blitz 8th sense users to a level it’s not even funny. If 8th sense gets immeas perception, Gods def have a stupidly faster combat speed

care to share the scans for these so can verify?

 

[StekFence]

On the profiles for any god tier, it’s shown that they have infinitely more cosmos than any 7th or 8th sense user. Cosmos gives speed, and god tiers are accepted as being infinitely faster then any other character

 

[Hasty12345]

care to share the scans for these so can verify?

of gods being faster than 8th sense users?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

then what about Gods having full immeasurable?
Reaction seems fine since BB basically experienced entire timeline in an instant and simulated it
idk if that a 1:1 comparison here as i do not know much about 8th sense and them perceiving reality
because experiencing the entire multiverse reality across past present and future is different from merely perceiving it and knowing it

8th sense users are perceiving whole timelines in the multiverse and their whole histories including their infinite branches simultaneously.

Hence Asimtas statement that he knows everything from the beginning of the world. The scsn being used fir CA.

I'm too busy irl to go into deep detail and post scans.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

of gods being faster than 8th sense users?

yes and how it went down.
because although they have immeasurable speed. that doesn't mean they cannot be physically blitz by someone faster than what they can move

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

8th sense users are perceiving whole timelines in the multiverse and their whole history including their infinite branches simultaneously.

Hence Asimtas statement that he knows everything from the beginning of the world. The scsn being used fir CA.

I'm too busy irl to go into deep detail and post scans.

the way you described only shows Nigh-Omniscience and Cosmic Awareness
specially how it says they are merely perceiving them rather than processing it like what BB does where it includes her experiencing every facet of it thus making it immeasurable

 

[Alonik]

Gods outspeed 8th sense users

But for 8th sense users, yeah, not with their speed.

Yet Zeus was killed and blitzed by a Aiolos with the 8th sense

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

the way you described only shows Nigh-Omniscience and Cosmic Awareness
specially how it says they are merely perceiving them rather than processing it like what BB does where it includes her experiencing every facet of it thus making it immeasurable

I'm not getting the difference here. Can you actually perceive something without processing any part of ot?

 

[Hasty12345]

Yet Zeus was killed and blitzed by a Aiolos with the 8th sense

tbf, nothing suggests he was blitzed and Aiolos was amped

but I'm not sure if I actually understand the immeasurable speed argument

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I'm not getting the difference here. Can you actually perceive something without processing any part of ot?

I'm rereading the CRT for BB and this one. I'll put my conclusion later on.

Still want that God blitzing 8th sense user btw when you got the time