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We have to wait for people who understand about Tier 1 things, he said he doesn't understand anything and would rather leave this matter to someone else who understands.
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(Complete Saint Seiya verse Overhaul Part 1) - Perhaps one of the top 10 most ambitious overhauls to a verse in vswiki history?
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
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Georredannea15
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I think there's something wrong with me because I couldn't see it.
Anyway, for 5D you will need at least 3 staffs. And I think we need DT in this revision.
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Yes, he really is necessary, I already left a word on his wall about it.I think there's something wrong with me because I couldn't see it.
Hasty12345
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Executor is very knowledgeable on tier 1
Ped2018
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Fr, he's in the top 3Executor is very knowledgeable on tier 1
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Well if you have resolved all the issues then I think it should be fine.
Although I'm not very well versed in Saint Seiya so I can't really give a full evaluation. If you have a really pressing dispute you could explain it to me and I'll try to give you an unbiased point of view but that's about as much as I can do.
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Alright I'm only gonna comment on a few things here, the others I don't really care for.
What part of the explanation gives this type 2? I don't see anything about being neither existing nor not existing, plus I don't see anything about Conceptual and Information stuff being nonexistent here, and lastly the fact that their bodies are still there shoots NEP in the foot here since you need to lack a physical body for you to get NEP.
Yeah I'm not seeing dimensional manipulation here. The scans just sounds more like the old HDM standards which aren't a thing anymore so...
Sooo can you show where it's stated that they're an unchangeable entity because of the fact that they're beyond causality itself? Because you need the two to be connected for it to qualify as type 5.
Anything about this Karma thing existing prior to reality? Because there's no scans for that.
What part of the explanation gives this type 2? I don't see anything about being neither existing nor not existing, plus I don't see anything about Conceptual and Information stuff being nonexistent here, and lastly the fact that their bodies are still there shoots NEP in the foot here since you need to lack a physical body for you to get NEP.
Yeah I'm not seeing dimensional manipulation here. The scans just sounds more like the old HDM standards which aren't a thing anymore so...
Sooo can you show where it's stated that they're an unchangeable entity because of the fact that they're beyond causality itself? Because you need the two to be connected for it to qualify as type 5.
Anything about this Karma thing existing prior to reality? Because there's no scans for that.
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Yes, we are having difficulty with Tier 1 here, due to not having experienced people, could you tag more others to help here?
Thank you very much
Hasty12345
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The executor disrespect
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It's stated to be the truth and principle of the world.
TheGreatJedi13
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In my opinion. The thing about rising into higher dimensional axis and perceiving the multiverse is more likely to becoming a 4 Dimensional spatial axis. That means they exist on a level side by side to a universe or multiverse which are 3 dimensional + time allowing them to perceive it.
It would grant HDE because it is textbook definition of higher dimensional with axis.
But for tier it needs more proof. Firstly we know they transcend the time of a 3dimensional space or the multiverse.
This could honestly put it at tier 1 but it would be a case similar to Arceus. Which is either tier 1 or a higher level of 2-A. Im fine with tier 1.
If they transcend time after achieving 4D spatial dimension then it wouldn't be tier 1 and that would only put 4D space as something larger than time. If there exist a time higher than 4D space then that is a solid 5D.
Acausality. I'm siding with Glass argument regarding needing it to be because of transcending causality and not by any other reasons. A entity can be immutable but that doesn't mean they are acausality type 5
Neutral on other things until ive read them
It would grant HDE because it is textbook definition of higher dimensional with axis.
But for tier it needs more proof. Firstly we know they transcend the time of a 3dimensional space or the multiverse.
This could honestly put it at tier 1 but it would be a case similar to Arceus. Which is either tier 1 or a higher level of 2-A. Im fine with tier 1.
If they transcend time after achieving 4D spatial dimension then it wouldn't be tier 1 and that would only put 4D space as something larger than time. If there exist a time higher than 4D space then that is a solid 5D.
Acausality. I'm siding with Glass argument regarding needing it to be because of transcending causality and not by any other reasons. A entity can be immutable but that doesn't mean they are acausality type 5
Neutral on other things until ive read them
Hasty12345
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I don’t really understand how transcending a membrane that encompasses the spacetime of a construct to a higher dimension could be 4D?
a 4th spatial axis above 4D spacetime would still be 4+1D.
it doesn’t matter how the dimensional axes are orientated, what matters is how many there are and what level the character is on.
The higher plane is explicitly above spacetime. Being 4D sounds like weird mental gymnastics.
a 4th spatial axis above 4D spacetime would still be 4+1D.
it doesn’t matter how the dimensional axes are orientated, what matters is how many there are and what level the character is on.
The higher plane is explicitly above spacetime. Being 4D sounds like weird mental gymnastics.
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Sounds like it's just HDE regardless of being 4D or 5D, as contextually it's in reference to souls ascending to other planes of existence when the body dies (and usage of the 8th sense) and being able to exist in and perceive other planes. Ilias even talks as though it's a general thing applies to all souls after undergoing physical death, and for Asmita, it was just him using the 8th sense so he could go that plane and talk to Ilias.
TheGreatJedi13
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The problem lies more in how they portrayed it rather than how they explained it in this case.
As I said either could be fine but the way they portrayed it is rather wack since a 4D being could do such a thing already AKA 4-dimensional perspective.
the 3D+1 is different from 4d+1
in the sense that the time in this case must be far larger than the time in the 3D sense.
Transcending time in 3D+1 could also be attributed to 4D space hence the term hyperdimensional or higher dimensional could sometimes refer to just 4D space.
now to prove that said 4D space function under a temporal dimension (+1) means there should be an existence of a larger time that is above the 4D space and not just 3D space
hence a 4D entity may have time but that doesn't mean they are 5D if they are still under said larger Temporal dimension.
eitherway that's beside the point since I'm pretty much in agreement in this case but i just find that portrayal rather wack for it
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It would still be a plane superior to a 4D construct, that should make it tier 1 no?
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I agree.
TheGreatJedi13
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the moment they reached HDE they couldn't really exist in a lower plane without affecting it due to their size and such or nature as higher dimensional so what they left behind will now just become an avatar while their soul becomes higher dimensional
tbh saying they are HDE with just their soul at this point is kinda wrong since their soul becomes their true body once they reached this point of ascension.
and in this case, the 8th sense is the sensory that allows them to perceive the higher dimension and move around it.
Also, this isn't really a Reality-Fiction difference since OP claimed that they ascended to a higher dimension which is mathematical/physics.
they simply reached a level where said dimension perceives all of the multiverses like mere objects. the plane on itself could be 5D but the entities within said plane need more proof to be 5D or should be capable of affecting the entire structure of this plane but if there is no such plane then we just have to assume they are 5D
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From what I gather from other users browsing the QA board regarding this kind of thing, HDE or existing in a higher plane alone doesn't warrant any stats on this level without having feats affecting these 5-D planes.
I see. I don't remember anything that indicated that the souls themselves become literal 5-D objects as opposed to just being sent to a another plane after death (or Asmita raising his consciousness to Ilias' level so he could talk to him), and after all Asmita and other Gold Saints with the 8th sense still go to the normal world as said souls and souls exist there and the Underworld without being infinitely big or whatever would be the case if they were 5-D objects afaik.
Hasty12345
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What’s the difference between the explanation and portrayal?
Hasty12345
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None of the 8th sense users scale to low 1-C, it’s just 5D HDE
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TheGreatJedi13
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- if im looking at this right does the cube portray the universes in the multiverse? if yes then that is where my issue was raised due to the fact that this universe/multiverse is an object in this plane that is portrayed like 3 dimensional. in cases like that,
that means the plane is 5D but the object in it (Cube universe) is only 4D thus if the soul exists within this plane and not alongside the 5D plane. then they are at best 4D
- this one I'm not really sure what is being shown here
the reason I still agree regardless is that how the portrayal of a higher dimension is artistic at best so it shouldn't be a reason to discredit the actual statement
unless it is blatantly contradicting what is said like most non-tier 1/2 feats
EDIT : What I meant in the last sentence is that it is hard to portray a higher dimension and people portraying it wrongly could just be attributed to artistic portrayal
Hasty12345
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Given you can’t draw a 4D object, I think the explanation should take precedence
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Dude waited the whole thread for that moment
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Infinite fists moment
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That nothing, I'm just waiting for an administrator who understands the subject
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Don’t remind me
Ped2018
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Executor does
TheGreatJedi13
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"If someone disagrees, its someone experienced
If someone agrees, it's a dumb guy"
I will not derail anymore.
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Guys are mad at me for disagreeing, hey, I never saw thatwhat if im just pulling words from my arse
Hehehe
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The problem is not that you disagree. A lot of people disagree with things here, including me. The problem is the shitty attitude you have
"Better wait for someone experienced", "We better call someone who knows about the subject", "Tier 1 its not legitimate, better call someone who knows about these things" - Saying all this several and several times
Your attitude is just boring
"Better wait for someone experienced", "We better call someone who knows about the subject", "Tier 1 its not legitimate, better call someone who knows about these things" - Saying all this several and several times
Your attitude is just boring
Hasty12345
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Guys chill
If it doesn’t qualify it doesn’t qualify, I have no preference either way. I just don’t want people buying into some mental gymnastics or obvious cope arguments.
IMO this is a lot more blatant than many other verses that both do and don’t qualify.
but I do want to make it clear, whilst it says “low 1-C” in the OP it should be 5D HDE. Scaling should come later as whether or not there exists a feat on that level to scale AP to is a lot different as to if the higher dimension exists to allow for such a feat.
If it doesn’t qualify it doesn’t qualify, I have no preference either way. I just don’t want people buying into some mental gymnastics or obvious cope arguments.
IMO this is a lot more blatant than many other verses that both do and don’t qualify.
but I do want to make it clear, whilst it says “low 1-C” in the OP it should be 5D HDE. Scaling should come later as whether or not there exists a feat on that level to scale AP to is a lot different as to if the higher dimension exists to allow for such a feat.
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Yes, but we have to have more input before this goes forward, the glass man disagreed, we need Ultima, I'm not being forward, I just don't think it fits the description.
Good, but could you focus on the elephant in the giant room here?
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