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I'll admit he's close, but in the scan and in the clip you posted, his distance from the ant is somewhat ambiguous. Killua's best feats besides this are moving large rocks with relative ease, which is nowhere near building busting.
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Complete Hunter x Hunter Overhaul
- Thread starter LordUrien935
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I'll admit he's close, but in the scan and in the clip you posted, his distance from the ant is somewhat ambiguous. Killua's best feats besides this are moving large rocks with relative ease, which is nowhere near building busting.
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The anime has been used for clarification other times, and even used as the basis for calcs so should be sufficient to clear up an ambiguous manga panel. We could also use damage's method and use the anime, all up to how they wanna calc it. Just have to adjust tree diameter.
Many other weaker hunters have feats on par or better than building level. Such fodder guard being able to tank machine gun fire, Bonolov's Jupiter, Gon punching an Ant across the country/continent, and some others I am forgetting. "Moving large rocks" is literally the beginning of the series and Killua improved literal leaps and bounds up unto that point not only gaining nen but also being taught by exceptional teachers over multiple arcs. And we saw how strong ants got just from awakening nen and having it vitalize them such as the case with Rammot.
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I think I agree with Whiteee. As long as the calc is consistent with what we seem to have so far (and the math is right of course) we should be able to use it.
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Well that's fine and dandy, but as I pointed out, he's about as ambiguously close in the anime as in the manga. How is tanking machine gun fire building level, and in any case it wouldn't apply to Killua since he gets shot and injured in the clip you posted. Scaling Bonolenov's Jupiter to Killua is dumb because he and the rest of the Troupe basically don't interact with him or Gon after the Yorknew arc, and the attack requires him to fulfill a bunch of conditions (I.e. dance to make specific sounds with his body) which explicitly makes Nen stronger than normal. Not to mention that it's him creating a large object and dropping it on someone, not him punching them. Gon only punches the ant out of sight, not necessarily across a country, and to do that he had to use Ko to concentrate all his aura in his hand, leaving the rest of his body vulnerable to attack. Killua and Gon were literally using boulders in the arc before this against someone who was stronger than them, Binolt specifically.
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Not really. We know Killa was no more than meters from the ant given we see the two trees bent indicating where the explosion exited the Ant's "barrel". When Killua begins moving after exploding there is no visible damage directly in front of him, indicating Killua was hit at the beginning of the blast where the first two trees can be seen damaged.
And you don't need to know the exact position Killua was if it can be reasonably proven or assumed to be within meters.
Both damages and this calc were both in the kiloton range
You need building level to mcb "hardness" to be bulletproof without any damage IIRC. Killua getting shot is cool and all but I'm not sure why you are comparing nen constructs/nen amped equipment to regular guns.
Not really. The nen still has to come from somewhere and gaining some unquantifiable portion of empowerment through conditions doesn't mean scaling is null and void. Bonolev still has to donate the energy for his attacks. The fact that Bonolov needed his second trump hatsu to beat speaks to his AP. Kalluto was able to completely shred an ant of similar status. Killua having feats later in the arc well beyond this such as hitting Youpi enough to bruise him and make him cry out, and incinerating half of Pouf's face. Not to mention him literally dealing with a squadron of ants casually at once, or you know one shot blitzing nen empowered rammot, who just before could take on both Gon and Killua.
They both improve leaps and bounds from that arc to the point in the story where Killua tanks the blast.
Greed Island Gon is capable of multiple small building level attacks with his basic Ko punches, and with a restrained Jajanken (from a weaker Gon) he can muster large building level to baseline mcb punches.
A.) Bonolov needed to create the Jupiter with his nen.
B.) He actually accelerates it at his target meaning his nen his creating the thing, and moving it with enough speed to create the KE responsible for the impact. All coming from Bonolenov.
He punches him all the way back to nlg
Not sure how this is relevant tbh.
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Damage's calc is actually 1.73 ton [Building level]
Other calcs include:
LordUrien935's calc is 1.496 kiloton to 3.29 kiloton [Small Town level]
Hagane no Saiyajin & ChaosTheory's calc is 22.13 Tons [City Block level]
Cable's calc is 2.135 Kilotons [Small Town level]
So the calc itself is disputed. Even if it wasn't, the feat is suspect of being an outlier.
Bullet invulnerability needing building and multi-city block durability is the high-end value, which is not used. But I agree that it is not relevant and not a good comparison.
Bonolenov was angry the spiked ant insulted his tribe, so Bonolenov using his trump cards to punish him doesn't mean that the ant is top or mid tier; heck the ant is explicitly slower than sound. Kalluto is the weakest member of the Troupe; there is no evidence Kalluto can pull off anything close to Big Bang Impact or Jupiter level attacks, and the ant he fought can be a total fodder.
Killua was able to stun and blitz Menthuthuyoupi, but Youpi's reaction indicates that he was not seriously hurt beyond brief pain and paralysis from the electricity. The 'bruising' looks like rushed sketching from Togashi. Even after the beating, Youpi commented that everyone he fought is less than a tenth of his sheer power. A direct punch from Youpi should one-shot Killua, so he is not comparable in AP.
Shaiapouf gave up 6/7th of his cells for Meruem, and what Killua fought are cells Pouf left in the palace for observation. So burning a handful of cells doesn't scale to full power Pouf even if it was a pure AP feat.
Is there actually a calc that had the giant tree shaking yield MCB? Making the tree shake by hitting it at a specific spot at a specific time is a game event to obtain the white beetle, so whether real world physics apply is questionable to begin with.
Gon's fully charged Jajanken is MCB scaling from Razor and Bonolenov 's Jupiter, but this doesn't mean that Gon's durability or normal attacks is anywhere near that tier.
Other calcs include:
LordUrien935's calc is 1.496 kiloton to 3.29 kiloton [Small Town level]
Hagane no Saiyajin & ChaosTheory's calc is 22.13 Tons [City Block level]
Cable's calc is 2.135 Kilotons [Small Town level]
So the calc itself is disputed. Even if it wasn't, the feat is suspect of being an outlier.
Bullet invulnerability needing building and multi-city block durability is the high-end value, which is not used. But I agree that it is not relevant and not a good comparison.
Bonolenov was angry the spiked ant insulted his tribe, so Bonolenov using his trump cards to punish him doesn't mean that the ant is top or mid tier; heck the ant is explicitly slower than sound. Kalluto is the weakest member of the Troupe; there is no evidence Kalluto can pull off anything close to Big Bang Impact or Jupiter level attacks, and the ant he fought can be a total fodder.
Killua was able to stun and blitz Menthuthuyoupi, but Youpi's reaction indicates that he was not seriously hurt beyond brief pain and paralysis from the electricity. The 'bruising' looks like rushed sketching from Togashi. Even after the beating, Youpi commented that everyone he fought is less than a tenth of his sheer power. A direct punch from Youpi should one-shot Killua, so he is not comparable in AP.
Shaiapouf gave up 6/7th of his cells for Meruem, and what Killua fought are cells Pouf left in the palace for observation. So burning a handful of cells doesn't scale to full power Pouf even if it was a pure AP feat.
Is there actually a calc that had the giant tree shaking yield MCB? Making the tree shake by hitting it at a specific spot at a specific time is a game event to obtain the white beetle, so whether real world physics apply is questionable to begin with.
Gon's fully charged Jajanken is MCB scaling from Razor and Bonolenov 's Jupiter, but this doesn't mean that Gon's durability or normal attacks is anywhere near that tier.
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In the scan you literally posted of the damage from the blast, you can see there's plenty of damage behind the ant, but Killua is nowhere in sight. There's no way to say how far he was from this.
Tfw when rusty steel is multi city block level
Also Ikalgo was firing the bullets with compressed air and they're called bullets. I don't see why we should assume anything about their AP.
Kurapika's teacher literally says conditions multiply the power of one's Nen. None of the ants the Troupe kills have feats besides being ants, which is unquantifiably superhuman. Killua was only able to "hurt" Youpi because his electricity paralyzed him, and like Shadow said, Pouf was severely weakened and also likely not resistant to electricity.
All Nen Conjurers create stuff with their Nen, that doesn't mean a random Nen user who creates a door for example, is small building level or whatever. There's also no evidence that Bonolenov is accelerating Jupiter. It literally appears over the ant and falls on him.
All Gon does is say he made sure to punch him west and tell him to go back to the NGL.
How the **** is shaking a tree multi city block level. It's a large tree made of wood. I imagine hitting it with enough force to destroy a boulder would shake it.
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Yeah I agree, I believe both Youpi and Meruems feats should be high-end pulverization or melting.
Meruem shouldn't have an AP higher than the rose bomb.
Also has anyone mentioned the bombardier blast killua took, I'm pretty sure that was calced at a few kilotons.
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Kilua's calc is the current discussion. Dr.White and AbeLincoln are debating the rating of it.
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About Nen constructs having the same power as the thing their imitating, I don't think a normal chain can do this:
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What's to say the flea bullets weren't as well
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So back to the Killua calc has there been an answer for why it didn’t take down the trees at ground zero of the blast
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I dont think Ikalgo knows how to do that
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Yeah i just realized he doesn't but he's a chimera ant officer, which are capable of defeating hunters such as Pokkle with ease
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agreed
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We could do a low end and high end on the killua calc by using the trees at there smallest and at their largest
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Iirc low end was 8C+ and High end was Low7C.
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That was actually Chaos' first attempt which he later corrected to the 1-3 kiloton result. Meaning 3 calcers have it at mcb+ to small town, one has it at city block, and the other has it at building level. One of those is not like the others.
The calc isn't too contested with most having at city block level bare minimum. Damage's is low because of the specific scaling used making the trees laughably lower than they are consistently shown. Discussion should be more focused on it being an outlier or not.
Bonolov failed to kill him with a hatsu. While the ant couldn't hit him due to the mind effects and general speed advantage Bon had, he still was unable to land an effective wound on the ant with his spear. So while you could make the argument he pulled out Jupiter due to disrespect, you can also make an argument for him needing it to actually damage the ant enough to kill it, or a combination of both.
Her hatsu tore an ant to shreds. She may be overall weaker but that could be due to a number of factors. For example Morel is obviously stronger than Kid Gon overall, yet Gon has the potential to kill him with his jajanken.
Uh the same could be said about the ant Bonolov fought. It was a generic ant.
He significantly affected youpi multiple times with his stun. He also bruised and push backs Youpi with his kicks. While obviously not on par with Youpi Killa still needs to be somewhere on the fringe of where Youpi is to accomplish these things. Hence why Youpi was hyped to actually fight Killua.
Unfounded interpretation on your part. It's clearly meant to indicate some effect from the hits he is taking and consistent across scenes.
Yes he was talking about total pool of nen. Which doesn't take into account efficient usage of nen. Not to mention his any physiology already giving him a massive AP/Durability boost. But Youpi tanked his own rage blast, and his durability scales as such. For youpi to be effected means Killua can 100% pack more punch than what is required to "lift a bunch of rocks".
Uhm it was not some hollow thing. Yes it wasn't all of Poufs strength but royal ants inherently have ridiculous durability with fodder casually tanking gunfire. Pouf is special amongst them as a royal guard, meaning even a sliver of him is going to be beastly. Killua incinerated those cells. I'm really not sure how you think it's a handful of cells.
Yes there is.
I'm not sure this posit is valid. Nothing about it being a game event suggest regular physics weren't in play, as that's not something that happens outside of spell cards and the like. The whole point of the scene was highlighting both Gon's strength, and his simple minded genius by solving the game by making everything fall out of the tree with brute force. That's the whole reason Gon says he restrained himself as to not injure nature.
His basic Ko punches were already small building to building level. He makes immense leaps and bounds from that training to the end of Greed Island, and then trains with Morel to make even more substantial leaps and bounds, being able to physically tango with Knuckle. Someone who in the physical department was comparable to a monster like Kite. Gon who just awakened Nen could lift the entirety of the heaven's arena stage and break large boulders, he could casually lift multi hundred pounds fish as a 10 year old. Once again, with that being amplified by having nen as seen with Rammot, not taking into consideration actually mastering it + their bodies like the two boys did during Greed Island through CA arc.
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Because Killua is behind the ant standing his ground/blocking. The fact that Killua is anchored in place indicates he was right on the ant when the blast happened, as the last time we see him on panel he is far up diagonally from the ant. So either his actual position was right behind the ant near the ground and he tanked it while anchored, or Killua seamlessly guided through the explosion despite moving towards the blast in mid air, and was able to anchor himself when he touched down.
It is pretty well evidenced that the former is what occurred.
non sequitur.
Dude, he was firing flees. Do you think non nen enhanced fleas could be propelled at such speeds and actually make it to their target hundreds of meters away, let alone actually penetrate Killua in the manner it did?
Also I presume that Killua utilized some form of ten/Ken to tank the blast. Not that he is casually that level in standalone durability.
Via empowerment. Aka it is still coming from the person. And just because a fodder can potentially multiply their power, doesn't mean it is going to make them able to actually fight high tiers.
And so killua being able to murder several ants attacking him at once, murder Rammot, and also beat out several other ants (Ikalgo, the gemini twins). Not to mention that Killua kept pace with and took attacks from Hair Modo Palm who used it as armor to amp her durability while focusing her nen solely on offense.
Electricity still needs to be potent enough to affect someone of a certain strength. That's why people, particularly large men, can be more resistance to tasers compared to other. Killua's stun had to be strong enough to both stun him for multiple seconds, and also make him feel pain. Said feeling invigorating youpi.
No. It does not fall straight down on the ant. If it were materialized in air, it would fall on top of the ant from a completely vertical axis. We are explicitly shown Jupiter moving diagonally meaning it must have been accelerated after being materialized. Also evident by it hitting him from that angle as he was running away.
He says he calculated which direction NGL was. Punched the ant into the upper spheres of Earth, and then proceeded to tell the ant to go back to NGL. It's pretty obvious what occurred with the feat.
And you'd be incorrect in your imagining given the scale of that tree. IRL trees much thinner in diameter, and smaller height wise, have survived literal tornados/hurricanes crossing them thanks to root strength. Shaking a tree of that size not only requires knocking back it's mass but also going against the force of it's root resistance. Which for a tree of that size would be quite ridiculous.
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That's not what I'm saying, Whiteee here is saying that Nen users creating random stuff means they can hit that hard, which is blatantly not true.
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also, Kurapika put conditions on himself to make his nen and conjurations stronger.
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What anchoring are you talking about dude, Killua was in mid air when the ant blasted him. It's likely the explosion knocked him back and he kept his footing.
You were the one who said being bulletproof required being multi city block level.
I'll admit the fleas are clearly super durable, but Ikalgo was firing at Killua from very far away, it's likelythey lost much of their speed by the time they hit him.
Gon literally got a shitton Nen out of nowhere by sacrificing his future potential. Conditions definitely create Nen out of nothing to strengthen their user.
Those random ants have basically no feats besides being ants and Rammot and Palm's only feats are fighting Gon and Killua respectively.
Being strong doesn't necessarily mean electricity affects you less, in real life, having more mass means the shock is distributed over a larger area and is less effective.
The manga scan of Jupiter makes it ambiguous whether its falling or accelerating. The perspective is different from the anime version you posted.
Okay, one of Gon's biggest character traits is that he's bad at math, what he likely means here is that he knew which direction west was and punched the ant that way.
By "upper spheres of the Earth" you mean the ant is still visible and clearly not over the horizon.
The winds of a tornado or hurricane are at least a few orders of magnitude less force than Gon shattering a boulder the size of a car. He's not uprooting the tree either, which is what you said hurricanes and tornadoes often fail to do, he's shaking it, which if you've seen a big tree in less severe storms, happens all the time.
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The only thing amping his chains is "Emperor Time" So a 40% increase based on his enhancer category
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what about before he was using emperor time when uvo was in the car, Uvo said he should have been able to break free of the chains even though he was paralysed then its explained that the reason his chains are so strong is that he put a condition on his life/heart
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Also when he did this feat he was using emperor time and was a specialist instead of just a conjurer.
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Also I'm not sure if this helps because I don't know what this debate is about other than conjurers
In Hunter x Hunter episode 47 "Chrollo says "conjurers give special powers to the things they create" so maybe those special powers could make the things conjurers create stronger.
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Yeah that he could only use the chain jail on the spiders, which is when its wrapped around them, so not applicable in battle.
That was the strict condition he needed to force someone into zetsu, which would allow him to instantly win most fights if he didn't have that drawback
Yeah, that why I said a 40% increase because enhancement would be at 100% not 60%
He was referring to the property of the object such as the ball he uses to tell if someone's lying, or the healing chains he used on his arm.
Conjured items can be enhanced past what they can normally withstand, Netero is a prime example of this.
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Have we settled on Meruem's tier?
If not I have evidence to support him being High 7-C in base
If not I have evidence to support him being High 7-C in base
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I don’t think we decided on anything yet
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So finally what calc was accpted for killua, youpi & Meruem
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Good question. Could anyone who knows please reply
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Huh, so I finished the Chimera Ants Arc now and I went here to know what you guys are doing. So.. what's actually happening? 5 pages are a lot to read so can someone give me a summary? I'm also planning to calc a lot of feats because the verse page has like... 3 or 4 calcs and that's not right lol, the verse has a good amount of AP and Speeds feats that are not calced.. yet.
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Mainly arguing that killua is Low 7-C because of the bombardier beetle; Some wanna downgrade him to large building level because they consider it an outlier even though Meruem survived a large nuke point blank. So I think the top tiers should definitely be able to survive a few kilotons of tnt.
Other than that, mainly whether Youpi's Rage blast counts as vaporization or not.
Also we decided that scaling speed in HxH should be a whole separate CRC, this one's mainly just scaling the top-tiers attack potency and durability.
Lastly, would you consider calcing how durable Meruem would have to be to survive the rose-bomb? Most recent calcs put it in the 50 megaton range; As far as I know no-one has ever calced it.
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