Yet another Hunter x Hunter speed revision

[TioKill]

Hey, I know you guys missed having those, right? Yeah, me neither. But this thread isn't a straight up revolution on the entire speed tier of HxH like the past threads were, if my reading is correct. This thread is only attempting to review and correct some honest mistakes and add some more calculations into the mix.

---

Problematic Calculations​

Let's start by removing and outright fixing a few calculations.
By "few" I mean two, and by "two" I mean one, and another one up to debate.

Gon speedblitzed a hunter: This feat uses the incorrect value of 1/250 reaction speed for the human eye to process light. That's because this level of reaction only happens in peak contrast, when you're looking at a black screen, and white pops up for 1/250th of a second, this doesn't apply to regular daylight sight. Thus, the new calculation would need to use 0.013s, the approved eyesight reaction speed, downgrading it significantly.

Netero slaps Pitou: This is the tricky feat. The OP calculates the speed of the Dragon Dive - the speed of the projectile - to then use said speed to compare to Netero's attack speed. It was brought up by Damage that this might be classified as "Calc Stacking". I'm not too sure of that myself, we have factors like - the feat of the projectile happened at the same time as Netero's attack - speed of projectiles are usually accepted to be used for another calc if they're not inconsistent. So, you guys debate if it should stay or not.

---

New Calculations​

This is where I'll need this thread to get traction, so CGMs may notice these calculations and allow us to support the current speed tiers even more.

Gon speedblitzed a hunter: Mach 1.7
Kurapika blocks several bullets: Mach 2.03
Kurapika dodges an automatic rifle: Mach 1.38
Silva smashes Cheetu faster than he can run: Mach 89

Pitou's speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mach 126

Subtitles:
Require Evaluation
Have been rejected
Have been evaluated

---

What's not allowed to be discussed here

• "Mach 50/100/300 is an outlier"
• "Characters are Subsonic, only Netero is Supersonic"

What I want your input on
Either or not you agree with the removal of Netero's calculation
Either or not you agree with the revision itself

 

[Theendzero13]

Agree on downgrading the gon calculation

Neutral on the Netero one

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Agree with Gon's new speedblitz

Agree with both Kurapika's bullet dodges. (Though you should use Glock 19's which have a muzzle velocity of 375 m/s not Magnum's speeds for the first calc)

Netero's Ant slap should be usable since all found values are in the same instance (See this Calc for an example of when it applies) though the speed at which he falls can be debated.

Disagree with the Cheetu Calc (Everything looks good but he was taken by surprise in this instance and we don't really know how he would fare)

 

[TioKill]

Disagree with the Cheetu Calc (Everything looks good but he was taken by surprise in this instance and we don't really know how he would fare)

Zeno said nothing would've changed if Cheetu noticed Silva - we know what would've happened if he noticed Silva, he'd make a run for it, and as Zeno said, nothing would've changed.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Zeno said nothing would've changed if Cheetu noticed Silva - we know what would've happened if he noticed Silva, he'd make a run for it, and as Zeno said, nothing would've changed.

That could mean that he was so close that even if he did notice him he wouldn't have time to move out of the way. I really doubt that he meant that even if he saw Silva from 3 Kilometers in the air he wouldn't have been able to dodge.
The whole calc relies on the fact that in order for Silva to move that fast he would have had to drop down from cloud level faster than Cheetu (Someone who has the ability to humiliate high rank hunters in speed) could move a few meters.

I acknowledge the fact that it is consistent with established feats and the fact that there is a gap between High Rank hunters and Master's like the Zoldyk's but not to such an insane degree.

Imma have to Disagree with that one, But let's see what the other calc group members have to say.

 

[TioKill]

That could mean that he was so close that even if he did notice him he wouldn't have time to move out of the way. I really doubt that he meant that even if he saw Silva from 3 Kilometers in the air he wouldn't have been able to dodge.

Your incredibility is unfounded, Knuckle, Morel and Shoot are in no way put in comparison to Silva, or Zeno - furthermore, this calculation is not taking consideration Cheetu's Top Speed, but rather his casual jogging speed (which on it's own is unrelated to his combat speed - the one where he can blitz hunters).
It is not saying Silva dropped 3 kilometers before a full speed Cheetu could dodge, it is saying Silva dropped from that height before Cheetu could jog and accelerate out of the way, which has a canon value. It's not really contradicted by anything.

Also, Silva's attack glows a purple light, Zeno would have seen from far above when it started.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Your incredibility is unfounded, Knuckle, Morel and Shoot are in no way put in comparison to Silva, or Zeno - furthermore, this calculation is not taking consideration Cheetu's Top Speed, but rather his casual jogging speed (which on it's own is unrelated to his combat speed - the one where he can blitz hunters).
It is not saying Silva dropped 3 kilometers before a full speed Cheetu could dodge, it is saying Silva dropped from that height before Cheetu could jog and accelerate out of the way, which has a canon value. It's not really contradicted by anything.

Also, Silva's attack glows a purple light, Zeno would have seen from far above when it started.

Yeah I'm aware they're not comparable to Zeno and Silva but Cheetu saw Top rank hunter's attacks in slow motion.
It's really stretching it to say their that much faster.

I am aware that you are using Cheetu's running speed of 200 kmph not his calced bullet dodge.

Even with that it is extremely shaky to say that he went from cloud height to Cheetu in less time than he could run away, as this is all based upon a single statement which can be interpreted in many different ways.

Like I said wait for more calc members input.
This is just my opinion which holds no weight since I am not a calc member.

 

[TioKill]

It's really stretching it to say their that much faster.

Why? When was a 'mid tier' (relatively speaking) ever put in comparison to a top tier like Silva? You can't just say something is absurd without an actual argument - it's quite frankly a logical fallacy.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Why? When was a 'mid tier' (relatively speaking) ever put in comparison to a top tier like Silva? You can't just say something is absurd without an actual argument - it's quite frankly a logical fallacy.

Morel and Knov are not "Mid-Tier" in fact there considered some of the strongest hunters in the world with them only being outclassed by the Zodiac's.
So yeah, saying that there's a Royal Guards tier difference in speed between High and Top Tiers is quite frankly baseless.

 

[TioKill]

Morel and Knov are not "Mid-Tier" in fact there considered some of the strongest hunters in the world with them only being outclassed by the Zodiac's.

What's baseless is saying Silva cannot be that much faster than them without any actual reason.
The Zodiacs are nobodies in comparison to Pre-Mortem Hisoka, who himself is below Chrollo, who is comparable to Silva - Morel is absolutely a mid tier in terms of Powerscaling of the HxH Universe. I don't care about his position in-universe.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

What's baseless is saying Silva cannot be that much faster than them without any actual reason.
The Zodiacs are nobodies in comparison to Pre-Mortem Hisoka, who himself is below Chrollo, who is comparable to Silva - Morel is absolutely a mid tier in terms of Powerscaling of the HxH Universe. I don't care about his position in-universe.

Hisoka has never fought a Zodiac so that is a baseless claim.
Also we don't know that Hisoka is below Chrollo in fact evidence points to it being the other way around.
Also none of this proves a speed difference the size that your suggesting for High and Top tiers.
In which case it comes to which of our claims is more believable, in which case my interpretation is more grounded.

 

[TioKill]

Hisoka has never fought a Zodiac so that is a baseless claim.

Hisoka literally SAYS IT during the election arc, they're rated below Illumi, the only number who managed to actually scare Hisoka.

Also we don't know that Hisoka is below Chrollo in fact evidence points to it being the other way around.

Yes we do? They literally fought, and Chrollo was running them fades on him, man got folded like a briefcase.

Also none of this proves a speed difference the size that your suggesting for High and Top tiers.

The 20% speed difference I'm trying to suggest, ay?
Mach 50 to Mach 86. HUGE JUMP!

In which case it comes to which of our claims is more believable, in which case my interpretation is more grounded.

Your interpretation is "I don't believe it because.... I don't believe it", just stand down already, you don't have a point.

 

[TioKill]

Shmeaty is a pro at derailing threads with useless discussions. I don't have to prove a negative, Silva is that fast.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Shmeaty is a pro at derailing threads with useless discussions. I don't have to prove a negative, Silva is that fast.

Your the one that keeps responding when I make it clear as day that I have no power and I'm waiting for other calc members yet you can't take criticism and have to start something every single time

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I would also like to throw my re-calc of Pitou's nest jump in the mix, it results in a slight speed upgrade.

Pitou's speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

Let me know what you guys think

 

[TioKill]

I would also like to throw my re-calc of Pitou's nest jump in the mix, it results in a slight speed upgrade.

Pitou's speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

Let me know what you guys think

May I include this in the OP?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

May I include this in the OP?

Sure

 

[Nierre]

From @GodlyCharmander: "Youpi should also receive an update in reaction speed, I asked Arc to translate the panel where Youpi claims to have reacted to the lightning Killua threw when it was about to hit him, probably need a calc. I agree with the thread by the way, but add this too."

 

[TioKill]

From @GodlyCharmander: "Youpi should also receive an update in reaction speed, I asked Arc to translate the panel where Youpi claims to have reacted to the lightning Killua threw when it was about to hit him, probably need a calc. I agree with the thread by the way, but add this too."

Lmao what? how did no one ever talked about this before?

I can probably put up a calculation on a blog.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

From @GodlyCharmander: "Youpi should also receive an update in reaction speed, I asked Arc to translate the panel where Youpi claims to have reacted to the lightning Killua threw when it was about to hit him, probably need a calc. I agree with the thread by the way, but add this too."

I need a few things translated to clear things up as well so I hope to get in contact with Arc at some point.

Lmao what? how did no one ever talked about this before?

I can probably put up a calculation on a blog.

I talked about it before but it was rejected....

 

[TioKill]

Incredibly consistent.

Youpi's reaction speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Incredibly consistent.

Youpi's reaction speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

Wow, that really is consistent

 

[Damage3245]

For what it is worth I also don't think that the Cheetu/Silva calc can be used. It is too speculative in nature, even if we took Zeno's opinion as concrete fact.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

For what it is worth I also don't think that the Cheetu/Silva calc can be used. It is too speculative in nature, even if we took Zeno's opinion as concrete fact.

How does the Pitou calc look? Do you agree with my point I made about the old calc?

 

[Damage3245]

Incredibly consistent.

Youpi's reaction speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

I hate to say it, but I don't think the Youpi calc can be used either. The way Youpi is talking about it, it was an attack coming from a completely different direction and he didn't see it coming. It is possible that the size of the lightning bolt meant he should have been aware of it before it hit him, but that doesn't mean he could have dodged or reacted in time to it even if he perceived it.

You also cannot used 1 meter / [calced timeframe] to get a reaction speed.

 

[Damage3245]

How does the Pitou calc look? Do you agree with my point I made about the old calc?

Personally I don't think so. It's not confirmed that Netero and Zeno were actually falling at the same speed as the meteor shower once the dragon had split apart, and we don't know that Pitou's En reached the full extent of 2000 meters before she decided to turn it off and prepare for battle.

We can see here in fact how far up the dragon was when it split apart... So the original calc is wrong either way.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Personally I don't think so. It's not confirmed that Netero and Zeno were actually falling at the same speed as the meteor shower once the dragon had split apart, and we don't know that Pitou's En reached the full extent of 2000 meters before she decided to turn it off and prepare for battle.

We can see here in fact how far up the dragon was when it split apart... So the original calc is wrong either way.

No, Not that one. The pitou jump that I re-caled.
It should be in the OP

 

[Damage3245]

No, Not that one. The pitou jump that I re-caled.
It should be in the OP

Oh, didn't see that one. I'll investigate it soon.

 

[TioKill]

I hate to say it

No you don't, cheeky lol

but I don't think the Youpi calc can be used either. The way Youpi is talking about it, it was an attack coming from a completely different direction and he didn't see it coming. It is possible that the size of the lightning bolt meant he should have been aware of it before it hit him, but that doesn't mean he could have dodged or reacted in time to it even if he perceived it.

You also cannot used 1 meter / [calced timeframe] to get a reaction speed.

Youpi says he "noticed" the lightning bolt "only" when it was right above him, still very much says his perception should be able to see it coming beforehand - at least it's what the Japanese scan implies, although I don't even know if that Arc is reliable or not.

Well, either way, 0.000002s is still classified as MHS on the reaction page.

 

[Damage3245]

Youpi says he "noticed" the lightning bolt "only" when it was right above him, still very much says his perception should be able to see it coming beforehand - at least it's what the Japanese scan implies, although I don't even know if that Arc is reliable or not.

Yeah; because unlike a normal lightning bolt, this attack was created pretty close above him from an attacker that he couldn't perceive. If it was a normal lightning bolt, then he should have noticed such a huge bolt descending upon him.

And perception is still not the same as reaction speed.

 

[TioKill]

Yeah; because unlike a normal lightning bolt, this attack was created pretty close above him from an attacker that he couldn't perceive. If it was a normal lightning bolt, then he should have noticed such a huge bolt descending upon him.

You're injecting context where context does not exist, I ask you to stop. The distance was never a factor, and we will not get anywhere via speculation.
The statement states that Youpi did notice the lightning bolt that hit him, if anything, even in your hypothesis the incredulity of Youpi taking so long to notice the bolt only implies he'd have noticed it earlier had it been a natural lightning strike - which is a non-sequitur for my calculation.

And perception is still not the same as reaction speed.

Killua blitzed both, so, does it really matter? Not really.

 

[Damage3245]

You're injecting context where context does not exist, I ask you to stop. The distance was never a factor, and we will not get anywhere via speculation.
The statement states that Youpi did notice the lightning bolt that hit him, if anything, even in your hypothesis the incredulity of Youpi taking so long to notice the bolt only implies he'd have noticed it earlier had it been a natural lightning strike - which is a non-sequitur for my calculation.

Actually, I must disagree with you on that.

Youpi says "Is it possible that I couldn't see that much electricity coming from (probably) directly overhead... until it was in my face?"

So Youpi is questioning if it was possible that he couldn't notice until it was so close; that isn't confirmation that even if he could notice it that he could react to it meaningfully. The likely reason why he wouldn't notice a massive lightning bolt descending on him is because it's coming from an attacker than he cannot perceive, so at this point he wouldn't even know that this is a lightning strike launched from close range.

Also, Killua's Godspeed is a lot slower than the actual speed of lightning from what I remember.


Your pixelscaling for the distance in the calc doesn't work either. If that line were to be taken as actually being 10.06 meters, then Killua would be absolutely tiny by comparison to the line.

 

[TioKill]

Actually, I must disagree with you on that.

Youpi says "Is it possible that I couldn't see that much electricity coming from (probably) directly overhead... until it was in my face?"

So Youpi is questioning if it was possible that he couldn't notice until it was so close; that isn't confirmation that even if he could notice it that he could react to it meaningfully.

You're missing my point. This is confirmation that he did see the bolt when it was directly "on his face", aka, directly above him, "I didn't notice until it was close to me" is the verbatim the same as "I noticed it only when it was close to me". Reacting to it is a whole other story, I personally do not care - he did notice, perceive, was aware of it, moments before it hit him. There's no point in running circles around the line.

Also, Killua's Godspeed is a lot slower than the actual speed of lightning from what I remember.

He doesn't need to be lightning speed to speedblitz Youpi's MHS perception speed.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, either way you look at it there is still an issue with the pixelscaling as I mentioned in my above post, and I do not think this perception calc would be that useful.

 

[TioKill]

Your pixelscaling for the distance in the calc doesn't work either. If that line were to be taken as actually being 10.06 meters, then Killua would be absolutely tiny by comparison to the line.

Uhhh, he is? You're misinterpreting the scene, that is Killua being held by Meleoron, they're facing the panel forward. And why do you want the distance to be smaller, don't you realize this will only raise the result even forward?

Well, either way you look at it there is still an issue with the pixelscaling as I mentioned in my above post, and I do not think this perception calc would be that useful.

It is a non-issue, fortunately. It is not nearly as useful as it appears, barely above the result of what Godspeed Killua even scales to - there's no sense in giving it any priority.

Better yet, could you please assist on evaluating some of the agreeable calculations? It will help things greatly, and we can discuss the validity of Netero's feat.

 

[Damage3245]

Better yet, could you please assist on evaluating some of the agreeable calculations? It will help things greatly, and we can discuss the validity of Netero's feat.

Sure, I'll look into them.

And I addressed the Netero calculation.

 

[TioKill]

Sure, I'll look into them.

Thank you, Damage.

And I addressed the Netero calculation.

Okay then.
The issue about calc stacking is not really what's happening here, right? I can edit the OP to reflect your concerns.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay then.
The issue about calc stacking is not really what's happening here, right? I can edit the OP to reflect your concerns.

Well, I'd consider it calc stacking still since it is calculating the speed of the projectiles, assuming Netero is equal to them in speed, then calcing his attack against Pitou based on that.

But that's not the only issue with it.

 

[TioKill]

Well, I'd consider it calc stacking still since it is calculating the speed of the projectiles, assuming Netero is equal to them in speed, then calcing his attack against Pitou based on that.

Fall speeds are consistent if you're going at Mach 6 and standing up, Air resistance is inconsequential in this, so the only problem in all that is the assumption really.

But that's not the only issue with it.

Okay, please tell me them