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Yet another Hunter x Hunter speed revision

TioKill said:
Okay, please tell me them
Click to expand...
My earlier post in this thread address them here.

Fall speeds are consistent if you're going at Mach 6 and standing up, Air resistance is inconsequential in this, so the only problem in all that is the assumption really.
Click to expand...

It is not shown that Netero was spalling at the same speed as the dragon lances which is the issue. He rode the dragon that was descending down with Zeno, and the dragon split apart into the dragon lances; but it isn't shown that Netero was falling at exactly the same speed as them.
 
I think your reasoning when it comes to the size scaling is more valid than the previous calc, but I have reservations when it comes to the feat itself.
 
I believe most if not all calcs have been evaluated. We should discuss either or not Netero's calculation is valid or not, Damage expressed their opinion and they agree with the removal.

I'm staying neutral until I review the feat myself.
 
By Netero calculation you mean the one scaling him to the Dragon Dive? Well I don’t have much of a leg to stand on right now(I don’t really feel like debating much right now, so my opinion doesn’t really mean as much) but I personally don’t see anything wrong with it. I mean, the speed of the projectiles is calced, but it isn’t considered to be calc stacking to scale someone to a level based off of other calculated values right? For example, it isn’t bad to scale Bakugo to a calced bullet timing feat from Izuku. So I don’t really think it should be calc stacking to scale Netero to a calced projectile value that should be the same.
 
TRAE_is_arceus said:
By Netero calculation you mean the one scaling him to the Dragon Dive? Well I don’t have much of a leg to stand on right now(I don’t really feel like debating much right now, so my opinion doesn’t really mean as much) but I personally don’t see anything wrong with it. I mean, the speed of the projectiles is calced, but it isn’t considered to be calc stacking to scale someone to a level based off of other calculated values right? For example, it isn’t bad to scale Bakugo to a calced bullet timing feat from Izuku. So I don’t really think it should be calc stacking to scale Netero to a calced projectile value that should be the same.
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That is where I agree as well however Damage's problem is with the distance he traveled in said time which may have been measured incorrectly.
 
About Netero's feat, he was riding the dragon downwards, moving as fast as it was, then suddenly they leave the Dragon - I don't think air resistance will have a lot of impact on Netero, first because he is standing, so air has a lot less area to slow him down - second because it has been a unquantifiably small timeframe.

Unless we have a reason to believe the speed of the projectiles changed, I think it's no big deal to keep this feat.
 
The speed for the Dragon Dive is wrong even if we assumed that Netero has identical speed to the projectiles.
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Since we don't assume Pitou's En is automatically 2km anymore the distance is wrong.
Everything else regarding the calc is fine
Click to expand...
Nah, that is dumb. Pitou was actively using her natural En in that scene, she just compressed it and shot it upwards, futhermore she was trying to feel the enemy's power, and the sooner the better. Absolutely not, we have far too many reasons to say Pitou had a 2km En there.
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
I'm just stating his reasoning. I don't agree with it.
This is the reason why
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Exactly.

It's not a matter of "We don't just assume Pitou's En size."

It's "We can see exactly how high up the dragon is when it splits apart."

I said this earlier on the thread.

TioKill said:
Nah, that is dumb. Pitou was actively using her natural En in that scene, she just compressed it and shot it upwards, futhermore she was trying to feel the enemy's power, and the sooner the better. Absolutely not, we have far too many reasons to say Pitou had a 2km En there.
Click to expand...

As pointed out above, we have every reason not to use 2 KM here for the distance.
 
Damage3245 said:
Exactly.

It's not a matter of "We don't just assume Pitou's En size."

It's "We can see exactly how high up the dragon is when it splits apart."
Click to expand...
Explain how does this contradict the speed of the dragon heads, I don't understand. The speed is taken once the Dragon touches the 2 kilometers En, and reaches the ground before the 0.97s mark - how does the height of the splitting plays a factor here?
 
TioKill said:
Explain how does this contradict the speed of the dragon heads, I don't understand. The speed is taken once the Dragon touches the 2 kilometers En, and reaches the ground before the 0.97s mark - how does the height of the splitting plays a factor here?
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Because the timeframe doesn't start when the Dragon touches Pitou's En.

Morel's countdown reaches "0" for Midnight after the Dragon splits apart into multiple dragon lances.
 
Damage3245 said:
Because the timeframe doesn't start when the Dragon touches Pitou's En.

Morel's countdown reaches "0" for Midnight after the Dragon splits apart into multiple dragon lances.
Click to expand...
Makes sense, guess we can remove it. Upon a quick recalc, the result is quite underwhelming (Mach 83), so not worth the effort to re-pixel everything.

Either way, I believe we need one more staff approval to remove these two?
 
Nierre said:
From @GodlyCharmander: "Youpi should also receive an update in reaction speed, I asked Arc to translate the panel where Youpi claims to have reacted to the lightning Killua threw when it was about to hit him, probably need a calc. I agree with the thread by the way, but add this too."
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You should straight up ignore anything coming from godly charmander. He's the one responsible for all the false speed calcs in the first place and also pretty ignorant when it comes to arguing
 
Hk1488 said:
You should straight up ignore anything coming from godly charmander. He's the one responsible for all the false speed calcs in the first place and also pretty ignorant when it comes to arguing
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He's mostly just a prick from my understanding while reading the past revisions. Also made wild assumptions with his calcs and do anything to die on that hill.

I have no idea what you mean by the rest, the verse was quite literally stagnant on Hypersonic+ before he showed up, so I'd say he was a decent supporter. I still don't recommend taking opinions from a banned member, but you've done nothing to contribute to the verse so please don't try to act superior.
 
I just want to note I already addressed all the critical flaws in the netero slapping feat in the original. Godlycharmander straight up ignored that it's calc stacking, told me it's close enough to the start of the countdown to actually use 0.96 seconds when it's blatantly not and after being told in the original thread that netero doesn't scale to the dragon dive in speed because he jumped of before the dragon split he didn't even change the calc💀💀


TioKill said:
He's mostly just a prick from my understanding while reading the past revisions. Also made wild assumptions with his calcs and do anything to die on that hill.

I have no idea what you mean by the rest, the verse was quite literally stagnant on Hypersonic+ before he showed up, so I'd say he was a decent supporter. I still don't recommend taking opinions from a banned member, but you've done nothing to contribute to the verse so please don't try to act superior.
Click to expand...
I have literally pointed out every single reason for the recalcs and revisions like 1 to 2 years ago and have been an active member of the revisions thread. The reason that I haven't contributed was because charmander just refused to use my suggestions for the false calcs.
 
Hk1488 said:
I just want to note I already addressed all the critical flaws in the netero slapping feat in the original. Godlycharmander straight up ignored that it's calc stacking, told me it's close enough to the start of the countdown to actually use 0.96 seconds when it's blatantly not and after being told in the original thread that netero doesn't scale to the dragon dive in speed because he jumped of before the dragon split he didn't even change the calc💀💀
Click to expand...
You were wrong on everything except for the timeframe.
Hk1488 said:
I have literally pointed out every single reason for the recalcs and revisions like 1 to 2 years ago and have been an active member of the revisions thread. The reason that I haven't contributed was because charmander just refused to use my suggestions for the false calcs.
Click to expand...
I don't exactly read the bickering of the past threads, I mostly just skip to the meat and potatoes of it to get an understanding of what the state of HxH currently is, so I don't care. Luckily we don't have to deal with him any longer.
 
TioKill said:
You were wrong on everything except for the timeframe.

I don't exactly read the bickering of the past threads, I mostly just skip to the meat and potatoes of it to get an understanding of what the state of HxH currently is, so I don't care. Luckily we don't have to deal with him any longer.
Click to expand...
I am wrong based on what? Your opinion? He did jump of before the dragon split so he doesn't scale to the dragon dive at all. It's also calc stacking and his reasoning for it being not sound blatantly made up.
 
Hk1488 said:
I am wrong based on what? Your opinion? He did jump of before the dragon split so he doesn't scale to the dragon dive at all. It's also calc stacking and his reasoning for it being not sound blatantly made up.
Click to expand...
It is quite literally not calc stacking - at least not in a way it would disallow the calculation. Read the Calc Stacking page for more information, but -

Projectiles that have their speed calculated can be scaled to other feats that are happening simultaneously to it unless we have a reason to believe it's speed changed. Since Netero falling and hitting Pitou are the same feat, the rules for Calc Stacking do not apply here any more it would to Pixelscaling for example. It's not my opinion, that's just our rules.

As for "jumping off", jumping downwards would speed him up, and his momentum was carried by the Dragon, so it would scale to his speed.
 
TioKill said:
It is quite literally not calc stacking - at least not in a way it would disallow the calculation. Read the Calc Stacking page for more information, but -

Projectiles that have their speed calculated can be scaled to other feats that are happening simultaneously to it unless we have a reason to believe it's speed changed. Since Netero falling and hitting Pitou are the same feat, the rules for Calc Stacking do not apply here any more it would to Pixelscaling for example. It's not my opinion, that's just our rules.

As for "jumping off", jumping downwards would speed him up, and his momentum was carried by the Dragon, so it would scale to his speed.
Click to expand...
Since when is netero a projectile💀? He is just falling down.

And he wasn't carried by the dragon dive that the calc uses to scale the speed he jumped off from a random nen dragon from the sky which then split into the dragon dive attack. It's not justification whatsoever
 
Hk1488 said:
Since when is netero a projectile💀? He is just falling down.
Click to expand...
Dragon Dive is a projectile... It doesn't really take much brain power to interpret my response.
Hk1488 said:
And he wasn't carried by the dragon dive that the calc uses to scale the speed he jumped off from a random nen dragon from the sky which then split into the dragon dive attack. It's not justification whatsoever
Click to expand...
The dragon was also part of the attack, hence the name, "Dragon Dive". Now, do we have any reason to assume the speed of the attack suddenly increased? The change in size would not be it, before you try to claim it would, Nen doesn't have mass - if anything, smaller projectiles with less nen in each of them would make them slower as shown in Gon vs Knuckle.


If not, we shall end the debate here, as not only it is worthless, but it's also polluting the thread quite a bit
 
TioKill said:
Dragon Dive is a projectile... It doesn't really take much brain power to interpret my response.

The dragon was also part of the attack, hence the name, "Dragon Dive". Now, do we have any reason to assume the speed of the attack suddenly increased? The change in size would not be it, before you try to claim it would, Nen doesn't have mass - if anything, smaller projectiles with less nen in each of them would make them slower as shown in Gon vs Knuckle.


If not, we shall end the debate here, as not only it is worthless, but it's also polluting the thread quite a bit
Click to expand...
No its not polluting the thread. The thread literally is about speed revisions and I'm providing reasons for not using that calc.

You are the one assuming things. You yourself said that you should always assume the negative right? In this case we assume that the dragon dive doesn't scale to the original dragon in speed until proven otherwise. It's as simple as that. Until you can prove this is not the case.
 
Hk1488 said:
No its not polluting the thread. The thread literally is about speed revisions and I'm providing reasons for not using that calc.
Click to expand...
It is clogging the thread because the calc was literally discarded already.

Hk1488 said:
You are the one assuming things. You yourself said that you should always assume the negative right? In this case we assume that the dragon dive doesn't scale to the original dragon in speed until proven otherwise. It's as simple as that. Until you can prove this is not the case.
Click to expand...
You're just reversing the burden of proof and saying you're the one assuming a negative.

No, you're claiming a change in speed occurred. You are claiming an effect, thus you should prove the cause.
I am saying we have no reason to say the same attack has two different speed in two different occasions for no reason. I am in the negative here, you can't just "Uno reverse card" the burden because you can't prove it.
 
Hk1488 said:
You are the one assuming things. You yourself said that you should always assume the negative right?
Click to expand...
Furthermore, while this is true and said by experts in debating and science - I have never personally said this ever here, I don't think. Or at least I don't remember.
 
TioKill said:
It is clogging the thread because the calc was literally discarded already.


You're just reversing the burden of proof and saying you're the one assuming a negative.

No, you're claiming a change in speed occurred. You are claiming an effect, thus you should prove the cause.
I am saying we have no reason to say the same attack has two different speed in two different occasions for no reason. I am in the negative here, you can't just "Uno reverse card" the burden because you can't prove it.
Click to expand...
I am not reversing burden of proof. The speed was calced before they split. The split is the start of the dragon dive attack. The original dragon they were riding on was not part of the attack. You are the one assuming that the dragon they were riding on has the same speed as the attack that was actually calced.

TioKill said:
Furthermore, while this is true and said by experts in debating and science - I have never personally said this ever here, I don't think. Or at least I don't remember.
Click to expand...
Yes you did. You said it in the thread about youpis explosion


Also since we are currently on the topic of speed revisions how do we treat the king of kakin catching a bullet? Do we see it as a speed feat or hin stopping the bullet with hax?
 
The King of Kakin didn't catch the bullet himself. Either his Nen Beast stopped it to protect him, or something in the ceremony itself interfered to keep him alive.
 
Hk1488 said:
I am not reversing burden of proof. The speed was calced before they split. The split is the start of the dragon dive attack. The original dragon they were riding on was not part of the attack. You are the one assuming that the dragon they were riding on has the same speed as the attack that was actually calced.


Yes you did. You said it in the thread about youpis explosion


Also since we are currently on the topic of speed revisions how do we treat the king of kakin catching a bullet? Do we see it as a speed feat or hin stopping the bullet with hax?
Click to expand...
Just reread the feat its obviously sth stopping the bullet nvm
 
Hk1488 said:
I am not reversing burden of proof. The speed was calced before they split. The split is the start of the dragon dive attack. The original dragon they were riding on was not part of the attack. You are the one assuming that the dragon they were riding on has the same speed as the attack that was actually calced.
Click to expand...
This is just a "no, you" again while failing to provide an explanation as to how the act of splitting would have any influence on it's speed.
As always, you're unreasonable - luckily it doesn't matter this time.
Hk1488 said:
Yes you did. You said it in the thread about youpis explosion
Click to expand...
Don't recall it.
 
Again, all we lack is one staff approval. I'll contact CloverDragon, they were present in the last HxH thread.
 
TioKill said:
This is just a "no, you" again while failing to provide an explanation as to how the act of splitting would have any influence on it's speed.
As always, you're unreasonable - luckily it doesn't matter this time.

Don't recall it.
Click to expand...
Tiokill stop trying to bend the situation to make your point seem truthfully. All we know is that they were riding on a dragon and then jumped of that dragon. Said dragon then split into energy beams falling down to the palace. You have no reason to assume the dragon scales to the dragon dive in the first place. No its not "the same attack" its not part of the attack. It's only contribution was transporting Zeno and netero. For the past few hxh threads I see you keep arguing back against no matter how many people disagree with you and I'm pretty certain you even started insulting damage telling him he's corrupt or some ridiculous stuff like that yet you are the one telling me I'm unreasonable. You still haven't given any argument on why it should scale to the dragon doves in speed. All you did was assume the dragon has the same speed as the dragon dive.
 
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