• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Clarifications on Bayonetta’s ratings

Status
Not open for further replies.
ImmortalDread said:
This makes no sense.

The second statement introduces the World of Chaos, which is said to only include the 4D Multiverse. This contradicts the previous statement, where Chaos was defined as encompassing both the Multiverse and Ginnungagap. If Chaos refers to the entire structure, it cannot simultaneously refer to just the 4D Multiverse.

The third statement states that Ginnungagap is a 5D space that exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse and is part of the overall structure of Chaos. However, it does not clarify how a 5D space can exist within a 4D Multiverse.

The concept of dimensions should be consistent throughout the statements, but this introduces a potential inconsistency in the logical framework.
Click to expand...
A 4-D multiverse existing within a 5-D multiversal structure is inconsistent? How?

Chaos is not just the 4-D multiverse, it is the Worlds of Chaos and the Ginnungagap put together.
 
You guys are confusing me, I will wait till one summary is set in the stone where you and Comicgyal agree each other.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
But yeah, the entire crux of this argument stems from Milly's misconception that the Ginnungagap exists beyond Chaos, which is just factually incorrect.
Click to expand...
Oh you'd be surprised. Here's a hint, read the Echoes of Memories' entries "The Isle Between (1)", "The Isle Between (2)" & "The Isle Between (3)". You'll get the full picture.
 
ImmortalDread said:
You guys are confusing me, I will wait till one summary is set in the stone where you and Comicgyal agree each other.
Click to expand...
We do agree with each other, we've been discussing this topic for literal years lol

More specifically, we have been discussing the issues in this thread for the past few hours, our arguments are effectively one and the same
 
ImmortalDread said:
This makes no sense.

The second statement introduces the World of Chaos, which is said to only include the 4D Multiverse. This contradicts the previous statement, where Chaos was defined as encompassing both the Multiverse and Ginnungagap. If Chaos refers to the entire structure, it cannot simultaneously refer to just the 4D Multiverse.

The third statement states that Ginnungagap is a 5D space that exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse and is part of the overall structure of Chaos. However, it does not clarify how a 5D space can exist within a 4D Multiverse.

The concept of dimensions should be consistent throughout the statements, but this introduces a potential inconsistency in the logical framework.
Click to expand...
Erm, allow me to explain more then.

Chaos, the total structure was not always a Multiverse. It was split into the World of Chaos, which is the 4D multiverse. Chaos in it’s full state contains both the multiverse and Ginnungagap, because of them together would restore it back to its full state.

That’s what the premise of Bayonetta 3. Uniting all the universes + Ginnungagap by proxy, back into a singular reality, chaos.

Ginnun is overlayed over the multiverse, and is used to travel between parallel worlds. That’s how it exists in the multiverse, and around it.
 
Asdtgh said:
Oh you'd be surprised. Here's a hint, read the Echoes of Memories' entries "The Isle Between (1)", "The Isle Between (2)" & "The Isle Between (3)". You'll get the full picture.
Click to expand...
Both myself and Comic have literally posted scans of those as supporting evidence for our arguments in this thread lol
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Both myself and Comic have literally posted scans of those as supporting evidence for our arguments in this thread lol
Click to expand...
Who said Ginnungagap is only the abyss between the Human World's universes? Because of its name "The Chaotic Rift"? Comicgyal pointed it out that the Paradiso Angels and Infernal Demons can still be found popping around Ginnungagap or the Human World's universes. And how else other than another "abyss between realms" than Purgatorio. Basically the same exact method anyway.

I can further explain this once Comicgyal start their CRT rebunk post thread for higher Dimensional Bayo. S̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶ (except 5-D)
 
I hope this one is the most accurate description, because I may give up in this thread.
  1. Chaos refers to the entire structure of the realm, which includes the Multiverse that is referred to as The World of Chaos (the infinite number of universes that make up the multiverse) and also Ginnungagap.
  2. The World of Chaos is described as being 4-dimensional because it is synonymous and equivalent with the multiverse.
  3. Ginnungagap is the 5D space that encompasses, and does not exist within the Worlds of Chaos, instead it exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse.
 
Last edited:
Is this accurate? If yes, is there any more information I should know about?
 
ImmortalDread said:
I hope this one is the most accurate description, because I may give up in this thread.
  1. Chaos refers to the entire structure of the realm, which includes the Multiverse.
  2. Chaos is the realm as a whole, comprised of the Worlds of Chaos (the infinite number of universes that make up the multiverse)
  3. The World of Chaos is described as being 4-dimensional because it is synonymous and equivalent with the multiverse.
  4. Ginnungagap is the 5D space that encompasses, and exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse.
  5. The Ginnungagap does not exist within the Worlds of Chaos; it exists around and between them.
  6. Ginnungagap is described as 5-dimensional because it encompasses the multiverse and exists within it.
Click to expand...
ImmortalDread said:
Is this accurate? If yes, is there any more information I should know about?
Click to expand...

1. Pretty much.
2. Almost the same thing as 1
3. Tier 2-A
4. 5-D yes. And encompasses but not just between the Multiverse. Cold.
5. Getting hotter.
6. Getting colder. Infact, I think you repeat yourself again with 4

This can be seen as my claim but I'll explain it further with my own research and proof after some patient waiting. Plus, I still need to revamp my own research and word structure.
 
ImmortalDread said:
I hope this one is the most accurate description, because I may give up in this thread.
  1. Chaos refers to the entire structure of the realm, which includes the Multiverse.
  2. Chaos is the realm as a whole, comprised of the Worlds of Chaos (the infinite number of universes that make up the multiverse)
  3. The World of Chaos is described as being 4-dimensional because it is synonymous and equivalent with the multiverse.
  4. Ginnungagap is the 5D space that encompasses, and exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse.
  5. The Ginnungagap does not exist within the Worlds of Chaos; it exists around and between them.
  6. Ginnungagap is described as 5-dimensional because it encompasses the multiverse and exists within it.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is the accepted interpretation. Except, Chaos as a whole is not just the Multiverse but also Ginnungagap, so add that to #1 and 2.
 
Frankly, the confusion of this thread is exactly what my thread was supposed to be made first in order to avoid. The OP does not correctly paint the layout of the cosmology, hence the confusion. My thread in the staff only section Will address what isn’t referenced here.
 
Now I edited it. Ya, sorry if there are any duplications, but it was too much for my head. Is it accurate enough?
 
Almost, Chaos is not Ginnungagap, Ginnungagap is part of the whole structure that makes up Chaos. So instead word it as:

  1. Chaos refers to the entire structure of the realm, which includes the Multiverse that is referred to as The World of Chaos (the infinite number of universes that make up the multiverse) and also Ginnungagap.
 
Everybody shut up, it's time for the top tier Filled Car Park Analogy.

We have three Filled Car Parks, however how two of these Car Parks are structured isn't what we will be addressing here.

The Filled Car Park we will be discussing today is called Chaos Car Park.
Chaos Car Park is made up of a sort of Concrete called 'Ginnungagap'.
This Concrete holds the Cars, all from the same manufacturer Aesir, and their brand is The World of Chaos.
The Concrete, however, is also in between each car, so it is impossible to get to one parked Car without stepping on the Concrete.

In summary, the Concrete and the Cars are parts that make up full structure, the Filled Car Park. The Concrete holds the Cars, as well as is in between them.

Lmk if there are any errors in the analogy guys. Probably has something to do with the concrete. I'm never good with letting it dry.
 
Last edited:
ZXareo said:
Everybody shut up, it's time for the top tier Filled Car Park Analogy.

We have three Filled Car Parks, however how two of these Car Parks are structured isn't what we will be addressing here.

The Filled Car Park we will be discussing today is called Chaos Car Park.
Chaos Car Park is made up of a sort of Concrete called 'Ginnungagap'.
This Concrete holds the Cars, all from the same manufacturer Aesir, and their brand is The World of Chaos.
The Concrete, however, is also in between each car, so it is impossible to get to one parked Car without stepping on the Concrete.

In summary, the Concrete and the Cars are parts that make up full structure, the Filled Car Park. The Concrete holds the Cars, as well as is in between them.

Lmk if there are any errors in the analogy guys. Probably has something to do with the concrete...
Click to expand...
ZXareo said:
Everybody shut up, it's time for the top tier Filled Car Park Analogy.

We have three Filled Car Parks, however how two of these Car Parks are structured isn't what we will be addressing here.

The Filled Car Park we will be discussing today is called Chaos Car Park.
Chaos Car Park is made up of a sort of Concrete called 'Ginnungagap'.
This Concrete holds the Cars, all from the same manufacturer Aesir, and their brand is The World of Chaos.
The Concrete, however, is also in between each car, so it is impossible to get to one parked Car without stepping on the Concrete.

In summary, the Concrete and the Cars are parts that make up full structure, the Filled Car Park. The Concrete holds the Cars, as well as is in between them.

Lmk if there are any errors in the analogy guys. Probably has something to do with the concrete...
Click to expand...
Perfect.
 
Here are my concerns:

The statement that the World of Chaos is synonymous and equivalent to the multiverse introduces a contradiction. If the World of Chaos is the entire structure of the realm, it should encompass everything within that realm, including the Multiverse. However, if Ginnungagap exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse and does not exist within the Worlds of Chaos, then Ginnungagap is not part of the World of Chaos.

This contradicts the initial statement that the World of Chaos includes the multiverse. It would not make sense for the World of Chaos to be equivalent to the Multiverse if it is meant to encompass it.

The statement that Ginnungagap is a 5-dimensional space that exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse contradicts the idea that the World of Chaos encompasses the Multiverse. If Ginnungagap exists between parallel worlds, it should also be a part of the World of Chaos, which you described as synonymous with the multiverse.

Therefore, it cannot exist separately from the Worlds of Chaos if it is positioned between the parallel worlds within it.

Cosmology:

In my opinion, the “Ginnungagap” seems to resemble the relatively insignificant 5D spaces present in 2-A cosmology and not an actual 5D space. Furthermore, it appears to be an abyss of emptiness that exists between the structures of 2-A.

Considering the inconsistencies I have highlighted, I fail to comprehend how it can be classified as 5D.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Here are my concerns:

The statement that the World of Chaos is synonymous and equivalent to the multiverse introduces a contradiction. If the World of Chaos is the entire structure of the realm, it should encompass everything within that realm, including the Multiverse. However, if Ginnungagap exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse and does not exist within the Worlds of Chaos, then Ginnungagap is not part of the World of Chaos.
Click to expand...
The Wold of Chaos isnt the entire structure of the realm
ImmortalDread said:
This contradicts the initial statement that the World of Chaos includes the multiverse. It would not make sense for the World of Chaos to be equivalent to the Multiverse if it is meant to encompass it.
Click to expand...
The World of Chaos doesnt include the multiverse, it IS the multiverse


The Realm of Chaos is made up of two parts, the World of Chaos, which is a multiverse made up of an infinite number of universes, and the Ginnungagap, which is the space between and encompassing the World of Chaos. Realm of Chaos = World of Chaos + Ginnungagap
 
But chaos is the entire structure of the realm which includes multiverse, but the world of chaos is equivalent to multiverse, you see the logical error here?
Two 2-A structures includes each other and be equivalent? The hell, in which set theory or infinity does this work?
 
ImmortalDread said:
But chaos is the entire structure of the realm which includes multiverse, but the world of chaos is equivalent to multiverse, you see the logical error here?
Two 2-A structures includes each other and be equivalent? The hell, in which set theory or infinity does this work?
Click to expand...
Chaos and The World of Chaos aren't the same thing.
Chaos is the Car Park, and the World of Chaos is the Cars.
 
ImmortalDread said:
But chaos is the entire structure of the realm which includes multiverse, but the world of chaos is equivalent to multiverse, you see the logical error here?
Two 2-A structures includes each other and be equivalent? The hell, in which set theory or infinity does this work?
Click to expand...
Okay i think i see where the confusion is.

'Chaos' and 'The World of Chaos' are not the same thing. The 'World of Chaos' is the multiverse, made up of an infinite number of universes. 'Chaos' is realm as a whole, the sum total of everything within it including both the Ginnungagap and the multiversal structure of the World of Chaos.

The World of Chaos is just a part of the realm of Chaos.
 
Then it is 2-A, not 5D. I barely can't see Ginnungagap being 5D in this whole context.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Here are my concerns:

The statement that the World of Chaos is synonymous and equivalent to the multiverse introduces a contradiction. If the World of Chaos is the entire structure of the realm, it should encompass everything within that realm, including the Multiverse. However, if Ginnungagap exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse and does not exist within the Worlds of Chaos, then Ginnungagap is not part of the World of Chaos.

This contradicts the initial statement that the World of Chaos includes the multiverse. It would not make sense for the World of Chaos to be equivalent to the Multiverse if it is meant to encompass it.

The statement that Ginnungagap is a 5-dimensional space that exists between the parallel worlds of the Multiverse contradicts the idea that the World of Chaos encompasses the Multiverse. If Ginnungagap exists between parallel worlds, it should also be a part of the World of Chaos, which you described as synonymous with the multiverse.

Therefore, it cannot exist separately from the Worlds of Chaos if it is positioned between the parallel worlds within it.

Cosmology:

In my opinion, the “Ginnungagap” seems to resemble the relatively insignificant 5D spaces present in 2-A cosmology and not an actual 5D space. Furthermore, it appears to be an abyss of emptiness that exists between the structures of 2-A.

Considering the inconsistencies I have highlighted, I fail to comprehend how it can be classified as 5D.
Click to expand...
💧

I thought we were on the same page .


ImmortalDread said:
But chaos is the entire structure of the realm which includes multiverse, but the world of chaos is equivalent to multiverse, you see the logical error here?
Two 2-A structures includes each other and be equivalent? The hell, in which set theory or infinity does this work?
Click to expand...
Okay, let’s go through it again. Chaos is the whole structure of the realm. Let’s focus on that word, whole. Currently, the realm Chaos is split into infinite universes, which is the Multiverse. Let’s say that again. Chaos which is normally whole, has been now split. The World of Chaos is the Multiverse that Chaos has been split into. They are not the same thing. Chaos is the whole structure, The world of Chaos is the Multiverse it was split into. Okay? So it’s not two 2-A structures, it’s one whole, that was split into one 2-A structure.

This split structure also contains Ginnungagap, which only encompasses the Multiverse. Okay? It does not encompass the whole structure, because the whole structure consists of the Multiverse + Ginnungagap, therefore making the whole structure 5-D.

So one last time, Chaos was a whole structure, but it was split into a Multiverse + Ginnungagap. Ginnungagap encompass the Multiverse, and is therefore 5D. But once Ginnungagap and the Multiverse combine again, it becomes Chaos, a whole 5D space.
 
This won't work, post the whole statements and feats, and I will judge myself.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Then it is 2-A, not 5D. I barely can't see Ginnungagap being 5D in this whole context.
Click to expand...
I really don't see what's so complicated about it all. Multiverse (World of Chaos) is 4D. Ginnungagap encompasses it like a Universe to a Planet. Ginnungagap is 5D. Ginnungagap AND the Multiverse (The World of Chaos) are a part of Chaos (The Realm of Chaos / The Human Realm).
 
He encompasses it and exists between/or around the parallel worlds of multiverse? Interesting
 
Yeah. Ginnungagap is so large not only does it surround the multiverse, but it exists between the parallel universes, and can be used as a way to travel between them. It is quite the multifaceted dimension.
 
The universe to planet analogy explains it well. The universe is around the earth, and also between the planets parallel to the earth. Exactly what Ginnungagap is like. The universes are the planets, which are parallel to one another. Ginnungagap is not only around them, but is the space between them.
 
Comicgyal said:
The universe to planet analogy explains it well. The universe is around the earth, and also between the planets parallel to the earth. Exactly what Ginnungagap is like. The universes are the planets, which are parallel to one another. Ginnungagap is not only around them, but is the space between them.
Click to expand...
Like Concrete around and between Cars in a Car Park...? 🙋‍♀️
 
Comicgyal said:
The universe to planet analogy explains it well. The universe is around the earth, and also between the planets parallel to the earth. Exactly what Ginnungagap is like. The universes are the planets, which are parallel to one another. Ginnungagap is not only around them, but is the space between them.
Click to expand...
This is more evidence of Gin not being 5D at all.
 
ImmortalDread said:
This is more evidence of Gin not being 5D at all.
Click to expand...
In order for one infinite space to encompass another, it must be qualitatively superior. Four staff members + Ultima agreed to Ginnun being 5D, so, not sure wym by that. Gin 5D is not contentious at all by our current standards.
 
Wow, two pages, I missed a lot. I’ll be commenting later on, just woke up.


Comicgyal said:
In order for one infinite space to encompass another, it must be qualitatively superior. Four staff members + Ultima agreed to Ginnun being 5D, so, not sure wym by that. Gin 5D is not contentious at all by our current standards.
Click to expand...
No, this isn’t true. Compactification is a thing, and you can stretch Aleph-1 with Aleph-1 and never get Low 1-C. The only reason it’s considered Low 1-C is because it’s enveloping the multiverse, the way the universe does the Earth. This isn’t to say I disagree with Low 1-C, by the way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Valiant_Abyss
  • Locked
Bayonetta Revisions: Singularity's forgotten hax
Replies
18
Views
2K
Comicgyal
Comicgyal
Jinx666
Bayonetta Low 1-C Summons/Other Characters Standard + More Justification for the High 6-A minimum + Resistances Additions
Replies
28
Views
3K
Jinx666
Jinx666
TyphonEX
  • Locked
Simple (but likely controversial) Bayonetta Verse Downgrade
Replies
10
Views
2K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Omazio2019
  • Locked
Kamen Rider Zi-O and Decade overhaul (1)
Replies
19
Views
3K
Sir_Ovens
Sir_Ovens
Tyri456
Shinza Banshou - Revising the Tiering
Replies
16
Views
3K
Violatas
Violatas
Back
Top