I believe what they are saying is that, if other villains in the series have Low 1-C feats, and Singularity is confirmed to be physically stronger than those villains, Singularity would have to be at least Low 1-C as well. This is a valid deductive argument - if x is equal to y, and z is higher than x, then z must be higher than y.
Answering a question with a question doesn’t exactly answer my point. Ginnungagap is very clearly conventionally outside the World of Chaos, or else there would be no reason to travel to Thule, for the sake of a portal of reaching it to get to other worlds. It’s description even says it encompasses the multiverse.
Aye, neither do I, but I feel I may have an idea, so I’ll wait for them to inform me.
Singularity fought and killed the Bayonettas from Bayonetta 1 (who fought and beat Right Eye Jubileus) and 2 (who fought and killed Right Eye Jubileus and Aesir), as well as being able to match a fusion comprised of Bayonettas from Bayonetta 1, 2, and 3. Even without a direct statement of him being the strongest he has feats that prove he is.
That's not my contention. I don't have an issue with saying Singularity is the strongest villain. I just don't know what feats the other villains have, or why they would be Low 1-C.
Wait, you are implying you don't know the feats?
Yes I hold no disagreement that Ginn is outside the world of Chaos, but Ginn does not have any proof of encompassing the other realms in the trinity (paradiso and inferno) and is a structure in the larger trinity as a whole. If Ginn is the white, the Trinity is the sheet of paper itself.
Both Jubileus and Aesir had the power to outright destroy the Trinity of Realities, including the Ginnugagap, which is 5-D, as well as Inferno and Paradiso, which are 5-D on the same scope as Ginnugagap.
No, I don’t know what Weekly is going to say until he does, and I don’t plan on assuming and making an ass of myself, hence me saying I have an idea. Seems pretty reasonable, I feel.
I don’t recall saying anything about Ginnungagap in relation with the Trinity. I said it’s outside of Chaos, and encompasses it, that’s all. Also, this analogy doesn’t work, since the white is the paper, lol.
Can you show me where it’s stated they would destroy Ginnungagap as well? Alongside why Inferno and Paradiso would be 5-D?
This isn’t true, as per Bayonetta 3.
Understood! I apologize if I have been a nuisance. My intention is to avoid any misinterpretations in our communication.
What I’m saying is that yes, Ginn encompasses the WoC, but there is no existing information for us to believe that it would encompass the other realms of the Trinity, thus meaning they would exist independently. This would make ginn a structure surrounding the WoC but still within the Trinity of Realities at large.
Ummmm ackshully the white on the paper is just the entirety of the visual spectrum being reflected onto your eyes.
I agree.
Not particularly, no, it would just be around, and above the WoC, as a quite literal higher-dimensional plane of existence. That’s entire point of it being Low 1-C, by the way. It’s infinitely bigger than the standard space-time, and its displaced space is where the WoC sits. Chaos is part of the Trinity, Ginunungagap is not.
Ginnungagap is part of the Chaos, its literally the space between the multiverses and the thing that contains all of the infinite universes, as well as things like Purgatorio (the infinite number of parallel universes that mirror each of the normal universes) and Muspelheim (A realm of infinite size).
The World of Chaos was considered weakened because it was split up into an infinite number of smaller universes, the realm itself was not made weaker than the other two otherwise reality itself would have destabilized. Even small shifts in the balance of the Trinity can have massive effects on reality, as per the entire plot of Bayonetta 2.
Ginunungagap is Chaos, it is part of the Trinity.
"Doesn't seem to" isn't the meat of my point, I say before anyway that "Singularity doesn't need to perform Low 1-C feats himself". Anyway, what suggests that Singularity needs a chain reaction for a feat of that level? That's another thing, there isn't really anything that 'hard' limits Singularity's strength level to just the Multiverse.
Again, the white of a paper isn’t considered part of a drawing. Same case here. Also, to reiterate a comment I made on a previous thread:
That’s a contradiction, the statement itself, verbatim, says that Chaos was weakened. There’s no real other way to interpret that. And as for the events of Bayonetta 2, they also don’t make sense. Paradiso is reportedly 1000x bigger than Chaos, an infinite multiverse, is that not an imbalance by nature?
Because he never actively targets Ginnungagap, and it only falls because of the fact that he’s going around erasing universes. I don’t have any reason to assume he can outright destroy Ginnungagap without the erasure of other universes.
I don’t recall saying the former; this also isn’t an argument. If you don’t have a rebuttal, then I really won’t be addressing it, thank you.
No idea, ask them.
So, then, explain and rebut. Not too hard.
Easy. Chaos is the realm as a whole, Human Worlds are universes that Chaos is split up into, of which there are an infinite amount, and Ginnungagap is what holds all of the universes together within Chaos. This is how Chaos is factually structured, and from your arguments you are seemingly pulling the claim that Ginnungagap exists outside of Chaos from nowhere.
This doesn’t address much of my comment, I feel. Chaos is indeed the human world; ginnungagap is the displaced space they reside in. But a higher-dimensional space, by literal nature, isn’t part of the lower-space, that’s sorta the point it encompassing. That’s why it’s… literally infinitely bigger.
Yeah exactly, he's not going out of his way to attack Ginnun, the place falls apart inadvertently as a chain reaction. There's nothing indicating that he cannot destroy Ginnun if he wanted to, now this would mean nothing by itself, but with the statement of being the strongest villain + demonstrating he can beat the other Bayos shows that he has that level of power.
I disagree with Milly, but I don't think he's making this thread for underhanded reasons or anything of the sort.
This is pretty interesting actually. A superstructure is still regarded as a part of the whole structure; just an extension of it that contains the substructure. The substructure in this case would be the Multiverse while the superstructure is Ginnun, but the structure as whole refers to both.
Because Bayonetta on her own doesnt have the ability to go to other universes...? Her personal portals only let her go to the Purgatorio of whatever universe she's in, she cant hop into other universes or other realms of the Trinity herself.
This is an assumption you have to prove, as you made the claim.
Uh, the last bit of the sentence confuses me. The multiverse is the substructure, yeah, ginnungagap is the superstructure, yes, but the structure I bolded here is what, exactly?
That proves my point, though. Paradiso is outside the universe, so she needs a portal to access it. Ginnungagap is outside of the universe, so she needs a portal to access it.
Chaos is the structure.
What? How does that disprove anything? You need a portal to access anything that isnt Purgatorio, including realms like Muspelheim which is explicitly part of Chaos.
I'm not really making a claim here, just saying that the statement + fighting the other bayos is evidence that points to Singularity being on that level, whereas there isn't anything that contradicts this since him not destroying ginnun outright is explained by the fact he wasn't really concerned with it much.
Yes, the multiverse is the substructure, ginnungagap is the superstructure. But the structure as a whole would be Chaos.
This is not his point (or her point).
...Literally Milly's entire argument hinges on whether or not Ginnungagap is part of Chaos
Chaos, meaning the infinite multiverse.
Never said anything about Muspelheim. But my point is that these places are out of chaos. Ginunungagap is outside of Chaos, that’s why it encompasses it.
I don’t understand. How is him fighting the other Bayonetta’s evidence that he’s on that level? He only affected it due to the other erased universes, so, again, I have no reason to assume he could naturally do that.
Can you get me a statement that says World of Chaos, that definitively includes Ginunungagap?
I would also like this addressed.
No, Chaos meaning the entire realm of Chaos, comprised of Ginnungagap and the infinite multiverse
Incorrect. Ginnungagap is outside of the universe that Bayonetta is in, it is literally the space between the universes in Chaos' multiverse.
Because the other Bayonettas have fought and beaten people that can both destroy the Trinity and tanked the blast that split reality into the Trinity
Get me a scan that says that, I don’t think I’m going to continue to argue this circularly.
Yeah, via encompassing, which requires the structure to be bigger, which would make it outside.
Cool, why is the Trinity 5-D?
It's better to just get the scans Weekly, the Retired.
Just because you tell me something, does not make it true. If I find something I disagree with, I will make that clear. I also don’t know why you continue to harp on me not knowing anything about the verse and it’s cosmology, despite the fact that I was the one who brought this verse to Low 1-C to begin with, and have participated in prior upgrade CRT. You are, effectively, trying to stab me with the sword I gave you.
Chaos is the realm as a whole, Human Worlds are universes that Chaos is split up into, of which there are an infinite amount, and Ginnungagap is what holds all of the universes together within Chaos. This is how Chaos is factually structured.
Don't you dare leave with that last statement! We need scans and statements for that!
