Cinder Fall's Base Tier

[CinCameron20]

I personally believe that Cinder's placement in base being "At least 8-A" merely because she is "far stronger than Mercury and Emerald" is a bit unreasonable.

I believe that in base, she should be upgraded to "Likely 7-B" for the following reasons:

1) She should be comparable to her colleagues such as Tyrian Callows, especially since Cinder was trusted by Salem to retrieve the power of the Fall Maiden.

2) She was capable of harming Amber after she had activated her Maiden powers, and her attacks resulted in Amber's aura being depleted immediately after the Maiden powers were deactivated half-way into the fight.

Also, she should have Explosion Manipulation on her page, as she can clearly generate explosions... by whatever means. She has done so in almost every one of her fights.

Also, slightly off topic, but the reasoning for most of the character tiers seems very circular.

 

[Nico-v11]

I agree with everything said.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah, this makes sense, i agree

 

[Ryukama]

I agree with this as well. You can ask Kaltias, Ever and Blue as well if you want.

 

[Kaltias]

I agree as well.

 

[Schnee_One]

Lemme guess....

Adam still doesn't scale...

 

[TheRustyOne]

Didn't Cinder back off after Adam threaten them, but when she got half of Maiden's power she threaten him instead?

Wouldn't this imply that Cinder wasn't confident in beating Adam with ease. (That she would struggle)

 

[TheRustyOne]

Found it right here. Cinder tries to convince Adam to join them and he raises his sword to them and tells them to leave.

Cinder backs down.

https://youtu.be/FFf7qoIDYuQ?t=325

Later Cinder comes back and destroys all of the guards in Adam's camp. She shows off her power and tells him this.

https://youtu.be/FFf7qoIDYuQ?t=744

 

[Kaltias]

I wouldn't say that it's enough to be straight up 7-B, but he could get a "at least 8-A, possibly 7-B".

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Adam being 7-B would explain how he oneshot Yang through her aura...

 

[Kaltias]

I mean being a high end 8-A would be enough to do that.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I want to point out Cinder was without question threatening Adam after she got the Maiden's power.

"Our plan could be beneficial to both of us... (Shows her power) or one of us, so which will it be?)

She gave him two choices to either work with her ,or she kills him. If Cinder was 7-B before she wouldn't have waited until she got the Maiden's power to force Adam to join her.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, not really. It simply means base Cinder << Adam << Half-Power Cinder.

Also, about base Cinder's tier, I would rate her as "likely City level", not City+, given that for obvious reasons she would be significantly weaker than herself with half of the powers of Amber

 

[TheRustyOne]

What do you mean not really?

The discussion was to upgrade Base Cinder and I showed why Adam could scale to this if Cinder was actually upgraded.

Did you think I meant something else?

 

[Kaltias]

I thought you meant that she wouldn't be 7-B, my bad lol. Sorry about that

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I agree with Kal

Well, for the most part. I would actually put her at likely City level+ because that's kinda what Tyrian is rated as

 

[Kaltias]

I mean yeah, but Tyrian is City+ because we scale him from half maiden power Cinder. Base Cinder = Tyrian = Half maiden power Cinder >>> Base Cinder doesn't make sense.

Also, we don't know if she was exactly as strong as Tyrian back then and she is only 30 megatons or so above baseline City+. Even being only somewhat weaker would mean that she doesn't qualify for City level.

 

[CinCameron20]

Adam should honestly just remain as "Unknown" simply due to his limitations being unseen--thus, making him "8-A" is incredibly redundant. He one-shot opponents of Yang and Blake's tier (Black trailer--the machine that even Blake couldn't even scratch--he pulverized/vaporized that thing in a single blow after being amped, Blake + Yang).

I wouldn't say Cinder (Base) << Adam, as she was looking to make her job of achieving the Beacon relic more easy, and it was due to the White-fang being a decoy during Volume 1 and 2. Whether Cinder in base could contend or even defeat Adam or not is something we'll never see anyways.

I want the Rwby profiles in general to have less circular power-scaling, and for the two following changes to be made for the 2 characters currently being discussed:

Cinder: Likely 7-B | At least 7-B, possibly higher | 7-A

Reasoning: "Likely City level+ (While she is less powerful before achieving half of the Fall Maiden's powers, Cinder was capable of staggering Amber with one of her attacks, albeit she did no damage, and very casually one-shot Amber's aura after the maiden's power was deactivated) | At least City Level+, possibly higher (Acquired part of Amber's power, increasing her capabilities tremendously) | Mountain level (Should be at least equal to Amber (RWBY) and Vernal due to containing the complete power of a maiden)"

Adam: Unknow, At most 7-B

Reasoning: "Unknow (His peak potential has yet to be realized. With a single strike, he vaporized an opponent that Blake Belladona could barely harm, and removed Yang's arm with ease despite the latter being amped by her semblance), At lost City level+ (Should be somewhat comparable to Cinder Fall in her base, as Cinder only challenged him to a fight after acquiring part of Amber's power)"

 

[TheRustyOne]

That would mean Qrow and Tyrian should have City level+ possible higher because they're scale to Half Maiden Cinder who Glynda fought.

Do you see the problem this causes.

Personally I don't see the Maidens being so much stronger then Pro Huntsmen like Qrow, Tyrian, Ironwood, and more.

I wanted them to just be Mountain level since Tyrian was task to hunt Spring, Qrow was guarding Amber, and Cinder defeated Amber heck she took out Amber's barrier pretty easily.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Poinciana - Uh, no they don't. Qrow only swung once at Cinder. This shows no indication of him being equal or stronger than Half-Maiden Cinder.

You contradicted yourself the moment you said "Personally I don't see the Maidens being so much stronger then Pro Huntsmen like Qrow, Tyrian, Ironwood, and more."

Cinder took out Amber's Aura after she clearly deactivated her Maiden powers.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Vernal doesn't have a profile yet? Just wondering.

 

[Kaltias]

My point is, while Cinder in base isn't immensely weaker than her half maiden self, she is obviously weaker.

Full power Cinder = 160 megatons (due to my calc)

Half power Cinder = 80 megatons (Half as strong)

Base Cinder isn't immensely behind, but even being only half as strong isn't enough to be city+. And the fact that she wasn't confident about beating Adam before receiving a power up does imply that he is =< her base.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

We should likely get this concluded guys

 

[Kaltias]

I still stand by:

Base Cinder = likely 7-B

Adam = Unknown, possibly 7-B

Dunno if Adam should get the +, but imo base Cinder shouldn't

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Agreed

 

[LordAizenSama]

I agree with Kaltias' opinion here

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree with leaving Adam at unknown with the possibly 7-B.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So can this be applied?

 

[Ryukama]

I think it'd be fine to. You can go ahead and do so if you want, Weekly.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oky, ive made the adjustments, closing.