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Chrono verse Major Revisions - Part I: Low 1-C Cosmology

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Ultima_Reality said:
I'm fine with it if that's the translation we end up deeming valid. Belthasar's Nu mentioning temporal "axes" is nice supporting evidence as well, but I'd check that more closely, too, seeing as it got translated into the singular in the localizations: "The time axis is out of order."
Click to expand...
There are two different ones, we should get someone to check it out
If I can get the raws, I can get someone
 
PrinceofPein said:
There are two different ones, we should get someone to check it out
If I can get the raws, I can get someone
Click to expand...
They are already translated though.

The version I took is from a patch which uses a literal translation of the games.

Plus me and him already discussed about it in DMs.
 
What has been accepted here so far, and what still needs to be done here?
 
5-D for sure, but unsure about possibly 6-D based on Ultima's comment.
 
Eh, again, possibly 6-D from a single staff that isn't even sure really sounds quite lacking as said before, tier 1 has quite high standards in staff input as well, after al, so just 5-D should work for now.
It'd be best to at least wait for more staff approval, if any.
 
let me rephrase.
Convince the staff for it to be deemed valid. when another translation from localization "The time axis is out of order." only refers to a singular axis and not multiple. because localization seems to contradict multiple axis since it referred to it as a single axis rather than many.

As for my input that contradiction is noteworthy so I'am neutral leaning disagree for 6D
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Convince the staff for it to be deemed valid. when another translation from localization "The time axis is out of order." only refers to a singular axis and not multiple. because localization seems to contradict multiple axis since it referred to it as a single axis rather than many.
Click to expand...
It's literally the literal translation from a patch which uses literal translation over the localized lol.
 
Japanese is one of those languages that has no proper way to express plural, it's supposed to rely on the context, so it may indeed be too vague to use.
If the official translation doesn't use plural I'd also be against this.
 
Since when official translation > Literal translation now?

This wiki has the issue of being nitpicky on everything, can y'all do not now?
 
Bobsican said:
Japanese is one of those languages that has no proper way to express plural, it's supposed to rely on the context, so it may indeed be too vague to use.
If the official translation doesn't use plural I'd also be against this.
Click to expand...
Same. iirc Executor says something similar regarding plurals.

Maybe we can ask him to participate since the translation is actually good but that thought about plurals just makes it more convincing that localization actually clarified whether it is singular or plural since that happens and localization sometimes improves on those sides.

Other than that.
although it is mentioned as plural
why do we assume there are only 2 as a minimum? what makes only 2 temporal dimensions more convincing than 3 or more when the plural could possibly refer to more than 1 which is any number above it?

but instead, localization actually clarified it as singular rather than a vague plural
tbh The singular time axis is more convincing and reliable than the vague multiple and at least 2 temporal without any other basis than it is mentioned as plural in Japanese despite localization saying otherwise
 
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StrymULTRA said:
Since when official translation > Literal translation now?

This wiki has the issue of being nitpicky on everything, can y'all do not now?
Click to expand...
The thing is that as far translations are concerned, as implied before out of how Japanese works, both singular and plural would fit as valid translations as far grammatical standards go.

And so while fan translations generally try their best to keep the original intent as intact as possible, they aren't always perfect either, and so require making a wild guess at times, meaning that we're left with the official translation for this, and if that uses singular... yeah.

Unless there's anything else to claim that plural was intended? If not that's too speculative for our purposes TBH.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I do not see why you should disagree, sounds pretty blatant.
Click to expand...
well let me elaborate

if you use a singular in that context. Queen would literally be referring that the black dream encompasses all of the time including all alternate future selves they have

and it was even noted by the translator here that the OG text was talking about those when she also talked about the future

Doppelgangers​

The Japanese version is more specific in that Queen Zeal is talking about the clones when she notes that the characters' "futures" are sleeping there. The clones were apparently intended to dishearten Crono and his friends upon sight. A similar tactic was used by Magus in 600 A.D., suggesting the possibility that this craft is a tenet of Zeal's combative magical practices.

Queen: This Black Dream flows across all temporal
dimensions......
While waiting for that time when Lavos-sama
will awaken......

Your future will invariably reach here eventually.
QUEEN: The Dark Omen transcends time
and space, waiting for Lavos to
awaken!

Destiny has led you here.
And here you shall rest forever,
unless you can defeat me, and smash
the Omen!
Click to expand...

So yeah. the singular version can be used in that context

since "all of temporal dimension" = "All of time across past present and future or even including future possibilities that could branch out if it is branching timeline"
 
Bobsican said:
Japanese is one of those languages that has no proper way to express plural, it's supposed to rely on the context, so it may indeed be too vague to use.
If the official translation doesn't use plural I'd also be against this.
Click to expand...
Wha, no. Japanese does have ways to express plurals, it is that words by themselves don't have plural versions and instead Japanese has words that denote there being more than one of a thing.
 
From someone that knows Japanese better than I do:
image.png
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Same. iirc Executor says something similar regarding plurals.

Maybe we can ask him to participate since the translation is actually good but that thought about plurals just makes it more convincing that localization actually clarified whether it is singular or plural since that happens and localization sometimes improves on those sides.

Other than that.
although it is mentioned as plural
why do we assume there are only 2 as a minimum? what makes only 2 temporal dimensions more convincing than 3 or more when the plural could possibly refer to more than 1 which is any number above it?

but instead, localization actually clarified it as singular rather than a vague plural
tbh The singular time axis is more convincing and reliable than the vague multiple and at least 2 temporal without any other basis than it is mentioned as plural in Japanese despite localization saying otherwise
Click to expand...
What? It's quite obvious that in that context, The Black Omens HAS to flow through multiple temporal dimensions, that's literally why it is present across multiple time periods at the same time.
 
All that'd be left is staff input to properly confirm if this is more solid (it should, BTW, but lol standards)
 
Still, what is the entire contexts??, just because it say temporal dimension in plural doesn't mean, the dimension here mean dimensional axis, it could well simply mean timeline.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Still, what is the entire contexts??, just because it say temporal dimension in plural doesn't mean, the dimension here mean dimensional axis, it could well simply mean timeline.
Click to expand...
The Black Omen never traveled through timelines, only through the eras of it.

What is with this assumption lol?
 
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