Chrono verse Major Revisions - Part I: Low 1-C Cosmology

[Bobsican]

I guess we're waiting for Ultima to reply once more, or...?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I guess we're waiting for Ultima to reply once more, or...?

He agrees with 5D, but has some contentions with the possibly 6D which he is mostly fine with, he wants the translation to be checked.

 

[StrymULTRA]

he wants the translation to be checked.

He didn't say that though?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I'm fine with it if that's the translation we end up deeming valid. Belthasar's Nu mentioning temporal "axes" is nice supporting evidence as well, but I'd check that more closely, too, seeing as it got translated into the singular in the localizations: "The time axis is out of order."

There are two different ones, we should get someone to check it out
If I can get the raws, I can get someone

 

[StrymULTRA]

There are two different ones, we should get someone to check it out
If I can get the raws, I can get someone

They are already translated though.

The version I took is from a patch which uses a literal translation of the games.

Plus me and him already discussed about it in DMs.

 

[PrinceofPein]

They are already translated though.

The version I took is from a patch which uses a literal translation of the games.

Plus me and him already discussed about it in DMs.

Can you send me the raws of both translations if it is not too much

 

[StrymULTRA]

Can you send me the raws of both translations if it is not too much

Go in Chapter 25 (Part 3) here

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

What has been accepted here so far, and what still needs to be done here?

 

[Vietthai96]

Need to re-ask @Ultima_Reality , the only thing i know is he is fine with Darkness Beyond Time being Low 1-C, 5D or 6D idk

 

[StrymULTRA]

What has been accepted here so far, and what still needs to be done here?

We should need the confirmation of @DarkDragonMedeus and @Maverick_Zero_X over what Ultima said.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with the Low 1-C upgrade yes.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I agree with the Low 1-C upgrade yes.

Both cases are Low 1-C... I mean specifically if 5D or 6D.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

5-D for sure, but unsure about possibly 6-D based on Ultima's comment.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Guess it'll be 5D, possibly 6D on profiles then.

 

[Bobsican]

Eh, again, possibly 6-D from a single staff that isn't even sure really sounds quite lacking as said before, tier 1 has quite high standards in staff input as well, after al, so just 5-D should work for now.
It'd be best to at least wait for more staff approval, if any.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Eh, again, possibly 6-D from a single staff that isn't even sure really sounds quite lacking as said before, tier 1 has quite high standards in staff input as well, after al, so just 5-D should work for now.

@DarkDragonMedeus and @Ultima_Reality agreed with that tho.

 

[Bobsican]

DDM is explicitly unsure even for a "possIbly" on 6-D, and Ultima is yet to reaffirm his thoughts.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

@DarkDragonMedeus and @Ultima_Reality agreed with that tho.

ultima agreed only if the translation is accepted as that or valid. none made an input regarding it whether it is deemed valid because another translation did not refer nor imply another temporal axis.

 

[StrymULTRA]

ultima agreed only if the translation is accepted as that or valid. none made an input regarding it whether it is deemed valid because another translation did not refer nor imply another temporal axis.

And it is not accepted as invalid lmao.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

And it is not accepted as invalid lmao.

it is invalid since that is the condition ultima will be agreed upon. prove that or get nothing

 

[StrymULTRA]

it is invalid since that is the condition ultima will be agreed upon. prove that or get nothing

Ultima said nothing proving the translation to be incorrect tho.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

let me rephrase.
Convince the staff for it to be deemed valid. when another translation from localization "The time axis is out of order." only refers to a singular axis and not multiple. because localization seems to contradict multiple axis since it referred to it as a single axis rather than many.

As for my input that contradiction is noteworthy so I'am neutral leaning disagree for 6D

 

[StrymULTRA]

Convince the staff for it to be deemed valid. when another translation from localization "The time axis is out of order." only refers to a singular axis and not multiple. because localization seems to contradict multiple axis since it referred to it as a single axis rather than many.

It's literally the literal translation from a patch which uses literal translation over the localized lol.

 

[Bobsican]

Japanese is one of those languages that has no proper way to express plural, it's supposed to rely on the context, so it may indeed be too vague to use.
If the official translation doesn't use plural I'd also be against this.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Since when official translation > Literal translation now?

This wiki has the issue of being nitpicky on everything, can y'all do not now?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Japanese is one of those languages that has no proper way to express plural, it's supposed to rely on the context, so it may indeed be too vague to use.
If the official translation doesn't use plural I'd also be against this.

Same. iirc Executor says something similar regarding plurals.

Maybe we can ask him to participate since the translation is actually good but that thought about plurals just makes it more convincing that localization actually clarified whether it is singular or plural since that happens and localization sometimes improves on those sides.

Other than that.
although it is mentioned as plural
why do we assume there are only 2 as a minimum? what makes only 2 temporal dimensions more convincing than 3 or more when the plural could possibly refer to more than 1 which is any number above it?

but instead, localization actually clarified it as singular rather than a vague plural
tbh The singular time axis is more convincing and reliable than the vague multiple and at least 2 temporal without any other basis than it is mentioned as plural in Japanese despite localization saying otherwise

 

[Bobsican]

Since when official translation > Literal translation now?

This wiki has the issue of being nitpicky on everything, can y'all do not now?

The thing is that as far translations are concerned, as implied before out of how Japanese works, both singular and plural would fit as valid translations as far grammatical standards go.

And so while fan translations generally try their best to keep the original intent as intact as possible, they aren't always perfect either, and so require making a wild guess at times, meaning that we're left with the official translation for this, and if that uses singular... yeah.

Unless there's anything else to claim that plural was intended? If not that's too speculative for our purposes TBH.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No way singular can be used in this context lol.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

No way singular can be used in this context lol.

that wasn't his point. and seeing this is only the basis for 6D and the implication of 2 temporal dimension
I guess i can flat-out disagree for the reason i and Bobsican pointed regarding translation

 

[StrymULTRA]

I do not see why you should disagree, sounds pretty blatant.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I do not see why you should disagree, sounds pretty blatant.

well let me elaborate

if you use a singular in that context. Queen would literally be referring that the black dream encompasses all of the time including all alternate future selves they have

and it was even noted by the translator here that the OG text was talking about those when she also talked about the future

Doppelgangers​

The Japanese version is more specific in that Queen Zeal is talking about the clones when she notes that the characters' "futures" are sleeping there. The clones were apparently intended to dishearten Crono and his friends upon sight. A similar tactic was used by Magus in 600 A.D., suggesting the possibility that this craft is a tenet of Zeal's combative magical practices.

Queen: This Black Dream flows across all temporal
dimensions......
While waiting for that time when Lavos-sama
will awaken......

Your future will invariably reach here eventually.
QUEEN: The Dark Omen transcends time
and space, waiting for Lavos to
awaken!

Destiny has led you here.
And here you shall rest forever,
unless you can defeat me, and smash
the Omen!

So yeah. the singular version can be used in that context

since "all of temporal dimension" = "All of time across past present and future or even including future possibilities that could branch out if it is branching timeline"

 

[deonment]

Japanese is one of those languages that has no proper way to express plural, it's supposed to rely on the context, so it may indeed be too vague to use.
If the official translation doesn't use plural I'd also be against this.

Wha, no. Japanese does have ways to express plurals, it is that words by themselves don't have plural versions and instead Japanese has words that denote there being more than one of a thing.

 

[Bobsican]

Wha, no. Japanese does have ways to express plurals, it is that words by themselves don't have plural versions and instead Japanese has words that denote there being more than one of a thing.

Well, if you know sufficient Japanese, may you check if there's plural mentioned in the original raw version?

Go in Chapter 25 (Part 3) here

 

[Jinsye]

From someone that knows Japanese better than I do:

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Same. iirc Executor says something similar regarding plurals.

Maybe we can ask him to participate since the translation is actually good but that thought about plurals just makes it more convincing that localization actually clarified whether it is singular or plural since that happens and localization sometimes improves on those sides.

Other than that.
although it is mentioned as plural
why do we assume there are only 2 as a minimum? what makes only 2 temporal dimensions more convincing than 3 or more when the plural could possibly refer to more than 1 which is any number above it?

but instead, localization actually clarified it as singular rather than a vague plural
tbh The singular time axis is more convincing and reliable than the vague multiple and at least 2 temporal without any other basis than it is mentioned as plural in Japanese despite localization saying otherwise

What? It's quite obvious that in that context, The Black Omens HAS to flow through multiple temporal dimensions, that's literally why it is present across multiple time periods at the same time.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Don't bother they're clearly biased asf lmao.

 

[Bobsican]

All that'd be left is staff input to properly confirm if this is more solid (it should, BTW, but lol standards)

 

[Vietthai96]

Still, what is the entire contexts??, just because it say temporal dimension in plural doesn't mean, the dimension here mean dimensional axis, it could well simply mean timeline.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Still, what is the entire contexts??, just because it say temporal dimension in plural doesn't mean, the dimension here mean dimensional axis, it could well simply mean timeline.

The Black Omen never traveled through timelines, only through the eras of it.

What is with this assumption lol?