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Chasing Swords: Altair vs Kindred

The thing is, Altair doesn't know who or what she is fighting. She doesn't have a real way to know that Kindred is Death

Yes but what I meant is that it's entirely possible for Setsuna to be killed before Altair thinks about that.

Killing everyone absolutely destroys type 4 concepts. Type 4 concepts are what people perceive. No people = no type 4 concepts
 
Kaltias said:
The thing is, Altair doesn't know who or what she is fighting. She doesn't have a real way to know that Kindred is Death

Yes but what I meant is that it's entirely possible for Setsuna to be killed before Altair thinks about that.

Killing everyone absolutely destroys type 4 concepts. Type 4 concepts are what people perceive. No people = no type 4 concepts
Click to expand...
Again, assuming she doesn't know who she's fighting, she could Ressurect Setsuna back via Causality Manipulation or Time Reversal.

And from the page itself For example, destroying all sentient life (or otherwise blocking all perception) and thus ending all concepts of this level would not qualify, while directly destroying all concepts of this level and thus blocking all perception would qualify
 
I'm perfectly aware of what the page says, I helped rewriting it lol.

What you said means "destroying all sentient life would wipe out every type 4 concept (or the type 3 concept of "sentient life") but wouldn't count as conceptual manipulation".

The reason for that is that you aren't directly affecting the abstraction itself, but you are doing so through indirect means.

So essentially you are triggering a chain reaction that destroys the concept, without the ability to destroy concepts yourself.
 
Hmmmm I see.

But is it in Character for Kindred to insta death hax everyone in the Multiverse? If yes, then he wins. If no, then Altair figures out and equips Setsuna with Causality Manip. Heck the instant Setsuna dies she would Causality Manip her back to life and grant her with Causality Manip or rewrites her Fate so no death will come. So it's an Incon then.
 
I could see that yeah. But given that this comes down to OOC or not, i'll simply retract my vote, as I know them only from their respect threads. I'll vote again later
 
From what I saw, Kindred is Death itself so it's likely OOC for him to Target beings other than Altair since she is the one they are after.
 
Incon FRA, I doubt Kindred would do something like wipe out a whole multiverse. Or at least Lamb would not do it even if Wolf wanted to.
 
Lancer45Man said:
From what I saw, Kindred is Death itself so it's likely OOC for him to Target beings other than Altair since she is the one they are after.
Click to expand...
Kindred is a they not a him, Lamb may not wipe out a multiverse but Wolf I can see him doing it. But then it comes to whether she would decide to stop him which is what makes it inconclusive for me.
 
Kindred kills people everywhere. They are the phenomena of death. At one point, they would have "killed" every single living being in the multiverse due to something killing them.
 
Kaltias said:
Eh, for now my vote is on Kindred via eventually killing literally everyone.

It doesn't look like they'd do that quickly judging from the blog, but it does say that eventually it will happen in LoL, so it should happen sooner or later here, as well.
Click to expand...
Kindred for these reasons
 
SchroKatze said:
Kindred kills people everywhere. They are the phenomena of death.
At one point, they would have "killed" every single living being in the multiverse due to something killing them.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is true, but would that be relevant to the fight? If it is, then I vote Kindred.
 
It isn't cuz in character Kindred isn't killing the Multiverse all at once. It's an over time thing due to Kindred being Death Itself which will come to everyone except Altair.
 
Lancer45Man said:
It isn't cuz in character Kindred isn't killing the Multiverse all at once. It's an over time thing due to Kindred being Death Itself which will come to everyone except Altair.
Click to expand...
Why would it not come to Altair? As long as she is not immune to death Kindred would ve able to kill her. Also Wolf would have no issues with Genociding a universe/multiverse, especially as long as it is not the LoL verse due to people like Bard likely saying stop.
 
Type 5 Immortality + Type 1 Abstract Existence + Passive Causality Manipulation that reflects even Conceptual Attacks.

And not sure since it's not in Character for him to do so from what his profile is giving the info.
 
Lancer45Man said:
Type 5 Immortality + Type 1 Abstract Existence + Passive Causality Manipulation that reflects even Conceptual Attacks.
And not sure since it's not in Character for him to do so from what his profile is giving the info.
Click to expand...
In character wolf is literally Death being savage, in other words he is like "evil" death while lamb is "good/peaceful" death (quotations because they are neither really). And these rely on her audience, that can die. Kindred's cosmic awareness and omniscience would tell then this. As long as they want to win they would indeed kill everyone to kill her. So actually my vote goes to Kindred, since forgot they had both cosmic awareness and omniscience.
 
If they can Kill Everyone at once then it's over. If they take time for naturally causing death to people till no one is alive then it gives Altair a big opening to easily save at least Setsuna which is all she needs to stay alive and considering EoS Setsuna is an Immortal like Altair too whose fate was rewritten to never die, I hardly doubt it'll make Altair Cease to exist.
 
Lancer45Man said:
If they can Kill Everyone at once then it's over. If they take time for naturally causing death to people till no one is alive then it gives Altair a big opening to easily save at least Setsuna which is all she needs to stay alive and considering EoS Setsuna is an Immortal like Altair too whose fate was rewritten to never die, I hardly doubt it'll make Altair Cease to exist.
Click to expand...
Yeah excepte like I said, they have both Omniscience and Cosmic Awareness so woth that they know exactly who they have to get rid of and their travel speed makes it even easier, added to they fact that they are completely unimpeded by space and time, even genociding a whole multiverse in an instant is easy.
 
Lancer45Man said:
There's this tho.
Click to expand...
Sorry, where was this said? I am not quite familiar with the story but a quick search brings up nothing about her being unable to die. Only that she was revived.
 
EoS she gets rewritten by Altair just before her repeated death in Train station. It rewrites her completely and even elevates her to the same level of existence as Altair where she was addressed as a God and was stated that both can Create Infinite number of Universes with Altair for all of Eternity. This was addressed in the recent CRT too.
 
Huh, well if that is the case I guess I am back to inconclusive, I dont think Kindred has a way to kill someone who's fate has been rewritten to be unable to die.
 
Lancer45Man said:
Type 5 Immortality + Type 1 Abstract Existence + Passive Causality Manipulation that reflects even Conceptual Attacks.
And not sure since it's not in Character for him to do so from what his profile is giving the info.
Click to expand...
Can you show us her causality manip reflecting conceptual attacks?
 
Addressed in the First CRT, The Trio of Aliceteria, Selesia, and Kanoya got Conceptual Attack Boosts to completely destroy Altair in EP 18 which was further backed up by Kanoya's statements in the series about all three of them Getting Conceptual Boosts to obliterate Altair. In Ep 19, Aliceteria boosts himself massively and attacks Altair to destroy her (Note that at this point they understood about Altair's Conceptual nature and attacked her concept itself) only to get her attack's damage reflected back on her
 
The only one who truly hurt Altair (or would have if she didn't lolnope it) is Alicetaria. Selesia sealed her but no attack truly hit her.

However yes, she did causality reverse a conceptual attack.

Also is it really fair to say that Kindred wins via killing everyone eventually? That's probably going to take like 80+ years and that's assuming Altair never shows herself again. Kindred wouldn't instakill the entire multiverse; that is grievously out of character even if they will, over an unknown amount of time, kill everyone.
 
<Is it fair to say

Extremely good question, we have matches where the opponent wins by outliving the other, yet others are Incon
 
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