Chara vs Dialga

[FateAlbane]

Absolute Chara vs Unsealed Dialga

Victory by any means. Who wins and why?

 

[PaChi2]

isnt there a chara vs palkia thread?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's Arceus

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Dialga. More power over time and is abosulutely broken in comparison.

 

[FateAlbane]

Dialga: 1 (Hop)

Chara: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[PaChi2]

can chara die from old age?

 

[SomebodyData]

Chara has a higher range, immunity to Dialga's primary ability (Time Manipulation) via Acausality and speed, and has Mid-Godly Regen. So unless Dialga has high tier Reality Warping or Concept Manipulation, I have to give it to Chara.

 

[SomebodyData]

@PaChi2, not as a concept

 

[FateAlbane]

Dialga: 1 (Hop)

Chara: 1 (SomebodyData)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm going inconclusive for almost the same reasons Arceus vs Chara was inconclusive (minus plates). Dialga is all, stronger, more defensive, and more haxxed. But Chara has the incapability of well...dying.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Can't Dialga trap Chara in-between space-time or something like that? Or just outage Chara like what was argued for Arceus? Something to make Chara incapable of doing anything, like a KO?

And since speed isnt equalized here im guessing Dialga's omnipresence might come in handy

If any of this is right i'll go for Dialga but if not then Inconclusive

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Dialga has control over the entire concept of time. Chara just has the power to save and load in and out of timelines. Acausality for Chara doesn't seem to hold any real reasoning behind it, so it's worth disregarding. It doesn't hold water.

Also, Omnipresence is hard to beat. This should have been the case with Arceus vs Chara.

 

[FateAlbane]

"And since speed isnt equalized here im guessing Dialga's omnipresence might come in handy"

...Not when Absolute Chara is Omnipresent as well. And I don't quite see him trapping Chara anywhere when he's an abstract concept that is Omnipresent like him and can bust Multiverses with an act as simple as stabbing once with a knife.

Dialga: 1 (Hop)

Chara: 1 (SomebodyData)

Inconclusive: 1 (Cal)

 

[FateAlbane]

And Chara can exist in the void outside of space and time like "Whatever" after he busts the Multiverse. The downplay here for Chara is real.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Chara's acausality is for the same reason as Frisk, for surviving in destroyed space-time.

Don't assume something doesn't hold weight because you don't know the reasoning behind it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wait. That's infinite. Not immeasurable. Transcending it would be immeasurable.

 

[FateAlbane]

I don't know about that, but once again... Chara is, straight from his/her profile...

"Omnipresent after reaching their "absolute" (Exists as an abstract entity whose influence is everywhere in all possible timelines, as well as continuing to exist everywhere in the empty void after reality has been destroyed)"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I was okay with omnipresent before, but now I'm not so sure. Arceus (incomplete) is still going through a revision for omnipresence for similar reasons, and existing in an empty void is immeasurable, considering how we ranked Zen'o.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just because your acasual does not mean your immune to time manipulation at all. u can still be aged out of existence or just straight up affected by time hax. U just cant be killed from different points in time, which shouldnt and certainly isnt Dialga's only option with its time hax

 

[BreloomFanboy]

This match is redundant given Arceus can do everything Dialga can and its match vs Chara was inconclusive.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well IIRC that match had restrictions while this one doesnt. Its win by any means, so Dialga doesnt need to kill Chara when it can just outhax him, KO him or outage him

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Unlike Feisk, Chara is immortal, and is unlikely to be KO'd

 

[BreloomFanboy]

• Frisk ._.

That match didn't have any restrictions Anime.

 

[FateAlbane]

I only did this match because Chara vs Arceus never ended. I looked at the thread and it has been one month, with no more replies, soooo... Thought maybe putting him against Dialga instead could lead this somewhere.

And aging an Abstract Concept out of existence... Huh. That's a new one. A very good one, too. lol

...And sorry, but Acausality DOES work as a huge "lolnope" to Time Manipulation. Especially considering Chara can just exist independently of all space and time .

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Most conceptual entities have a degree of omnipresence and we've been shown Chara existing across multiple timelines despite the player's attempt to erase them.

Nature of existence+feat=solid reasoning.

Being unaffected in space-time void is indicative of permanent transcendence of space-time. Most space-time attacks would be useless.

>Immortality, no aging.

>Incorporeal, you'll have to specify on KO.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yeah, like I said, unless Dialga has massive concept / reality warping, he simply can't take out Chara

@Fate yes and no. Acausality makes you immune to the most dangerous ability of time manipulation, time travel. Chara's speed gets rid of the rest of the problem.

I feel like I should mention that I don't know Dialga's level of omnipresence and am assuming hes 4-D omnipresent. If he's not, then this is a stomp.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Existing across timelines is a 4D omnipresence feat.

 

[PaChi2]

quick check:

Offensive Hax? Dialga

Deffensive hax? Chara

AP? equal

Dura? equal

Speed? equal

Unless chara can remove the very concept of time from the multiverse, dialga isnt dying. Chara wont go down, either. Inconclusive to me.

 

[FateAlbane]

Dialga: 1 (Hop)

Chara: 1 (SomebodyData)

Inconclusive: 2 (Cal, Pachi2)

 

[FateAlbane]

Also, @SD Okay, I'll remember that.

 

[ThunderClap448]

Either inconclusive or Dialga. Dialga has too many reality warps and stuff that it's ridiculous. I mean, Chara has the immunity, but couldn't Dialga from a very contrieved standpoint just remove that as well?

 

[SomebodyData]

@Thunder has he ever shown power removal?

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Think Dialga can learn the move "Disable" which renders a power invalid/inert/unusable

 

[SomebodyData]

That generally is for an attack, by power removal, I meant the capability to disable abilities such as Chara's counter hax

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hmmmm... Dunno, since disable also counters status affecting moves and moves like protect, so it doesn't apply only to attacks, it applies to all moves an enemy knows. It doens't however counter things like Poke abilities (like levitation and such)

Edit: He can't learn it by any means in the games (without cheating), and has not demonstrated it in any other media.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I do wonder if Heal Block can stop that Regenerationn...

 

[Cropfist]

If Chara vs Arceus is heading into inconclusive that doesn't say good things for Dialga.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well Dialga did basically said No to Celebi's time hax in MD and it well......didnt work

And IIRC, Dialga also removed Giratina's ability to travel between dimensions due to it being trapped in a time loop

Would that help with justifying "power removal"?

 

[ThunderClap448]

@Thunder has he ever shown power removal?

I was referring to reality warp, so he warps her into a reality where she doesn't have all the hax, but that's a bit way op eh

 

[SomebodyData]

@Anime trap time loop =/= ability removal

@Thunder unless he has shown to be able (1) to do that to someone on equal footing (2), i think that's nlf

@Cal could be, although this level of regen isn't your typical one