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YOU DON'T KILL CHARA, CHARA KILLS YOU! (Chara vs Tricky the Clown | 3-0-2)

XxZetsuxX said:
No madness manip resistence though, And we also didn't have any feats from determination users resisting it, Also thanks for correcting me
Click to expand...
Please, read the thread above, pretty sure @JustANormalLemon explained how DETERMINATION will not make her ceasing the battle like Dark Souls and keep continuing to matter how insane they become.
XxZetsuxX said:
Zeds resist soul based attacks, Fear only makes nevadians stronger, Sleep manip works but we got dem minions to help Tricky
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was mistaken about that, could bet my eyeballs that Chara/Frisk had soul interaction (they can absorb souls but it only works after the monsters die). About the fear thing, kinda meh considering all the rest (and besides the empowerment thing has no scans that is not fear not being strong motivator which wouldn't really work as it can work in emotionless beings). And yeah, that is why I said it would only work in his Nevada self.
Comiphorous said:
which does jack shit to get around the fact they can't kill nor incap tricky!
Click to expand...
Elaborate.
 
ZeedKZ said:
Please, read the thread above, pretty sure @JustANormalLemon explained how DETERMINATION will not make her ceasing the battle like Dark Souls and keep continuing to matter how insane they become.
Click to expand...
because they made the madness manipulation sound like it would be a good thing for Chara? when it's not??? it'd incap them. it'd explicitly will drive them insane and leave them unable to fight tricky effectively. maybe they could still fight, but they'd be so out of it would be more worth the effort to load and try and avoid going insane.

When Jesus was suffering from it he became weaker (to a point the former man who could kill the strongest nevadean to ever live who could face off jesus with the halo was still a incredible threat to him), warped his mind into a delusion of being a messiah for nevada (but at the same time being a complete and utter threat to it) and generally ****** up his body beyond relief.

In project nexus, victims of dissonance had to be locked up in an insane asylum while they lost their mind whilst also being aware of what was happening to their mental state.

Chara isn't just saying 'yeah **** this INSANITY im just gonna ignore ti"
ZeedKZ said:
Yeah, I was mistaken about that, could bet my eyeballs that Chara/Frisk had soul interaction (they can absorb souls but it only works after the monsters die). About the fear thing, kinda meh considering all the rest (and besides the empowerment thing has no scans that is not fear not being strong motivator which wouldn't really work as it can work in emotionless beings). And yeah, that is why I said it would only work in his Nevada self.
Click to expand...
Strong emotions empower nevadeans including fear.
ZeedKZ said:
Elaborate.
Click to expand...
I did in that same exact message.
 
chara going crazy wouldn't **** with basically the whole point of getting the ability to kill tricky even..., crazy people if well.... "fight" they are more like an animal.. basically chara would lose her ability while just attacking like a lunatic someone incredibly skilled that will keep popping up.. and if she gains some skill.. she would go back to 0 because of the madness manipulation.
 
Comiphorous said:
because they made the madness manipulation sound like it would be a good thing for Chara? when it's not??? it'd incap them. it'd explicitly will drive them insane and leave them unable to fight tricky effectively. maybe they could still fight, but they'd be so out of it would be more worth the effort to load and try and avoid going insane.
Click to expand...
Do we even have a timeframe of how fast the madness inducement is? Since we're assuming one becomes instantly deranged by that. And it's not like it is portrayed as a good thing for them, but it wouild be something that would not unmotivate Chara because of DETERMINATION, which alone is far superior to the one to the monsters'. Tricky would induce madness and kill Chara, the latter would return stronger and aware of such ability, and there is how DETERMINATION is played.
Comiphorous said:
In project nexus, victims of dissonance had to be locked up in an insane asylum while they lost their mind whilst also being aware of what was happening to their mental state.
Chara isn't just saying 'yeah ***** this INSANITY im just gonna ignore ti"
Click to expand...
They lack the characteristics above.
Comiphorous said:
Strong emotions empower nevadeans including fear.
Click to expand...
The only scan present about that is it not motivates Nevadeans, and it's something they would prefer to avoid and appease for their own benefit, instead of turning them stronger. Could you link where it states since I don't remember exactly where this came from, and how would it work in layered fear manipulation?
Comiphorous said:
I did in that same exact message.
Click to expand...
You did now.
 
If madness manipulation induces instantly the state we see in the asylum "monsters", then I'll be changing to inconclusive. Chara would still return with no prior effects induced in the fight thanks to SAVE and LOAD, and they cannot kill Tricky (specially if the ongoing CRT is accepted).
 
I'm pretty sure LOAD's wouldn't undo the effects of madness manip cause their mind will still be affected by the madness even after the LOAD.
 
if my CRT goes through, Hank (in his mag key) might be a better choice as he'll be gaining Immortality Negation and could actualy theoretically kill Chara once he gains enough violence.
 
Man, this is crazy, it was fun to read, but it's still crazy... So for the easiest understanding I suggest you put together the supposed wins of each character and see what we have on the table so you can give your opinion... (I I even have an argument that could help Chara, but she would have to have at least one wincon to work and Tricky being completely immortal doesn't help)
 
EnderLord8 said:
Man, this is crazy, it was fun to read, but it's still crazy... So for the easiest understanding I suggest you put together the supposed wins of each character and see what we have on the table so you can give your opinion... (I I even have an argument that could help Chara, but she would have to have at least one wincon to work and Tricky being completely immortal doesn't help)
Click to expand...
Neither have actual wincons.

Tricky is (becoming) completely immortal and chara will have zero way of permanently killing tricky, and tricky will constantly replace his avatar with a prime condition every time he's put down.

The only way chara could convincingly win this is if they found a way to kill both avatars at the same exact time so that neither respawn each other.

problem is, Tricky can't exactly permanently kill Chara either due to LOADing.
 
The_Pink_God said:
Which knowing Hank... lip smack yeah
Click to expand...
Due to context given to us by Madness Combat 9.5, not only is Mag Hank a previous hank in the series, but the most violent variant of Hank's past.

which is saying a lot, since even before he became a mag, Project Nexus gives a whole lot of context on how goddamn violent and uncaring of life he is.
 
Comiphorous said:
which is saying a lot, since even before he became a mag, Project Nexus gives a whole lot of context on how goddamn violent and uncaring of life he is.
Click to expand...
"If you don't want violence, then why did you bring... Hank. J. Wimbleton!"
- Jeb in PN trailer
 
Comiphorous said:
Neither have actual wincons.

Tricky is (becoming) completely immortal and chara will have zero way of permanently killing tricky, and tricky will constantly replace his avatar with a prime condition every time he's put down.

The only way chara could convincingly win this is if they found a way to kill both avatars at the same exact time so that neither respawn each other.

problem is, Tricky can't exactly permanently kill Chara either due to LOADing.
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard of the Infinite Monkey Theorem? Insane Chara's wincon would be this in my opinion.
 
The_Pink_God said:
Considering Chara would constantly be "ok me insane" due to Dissonant Energy, I doubt
Click to expand...
The point is Chara will be insane and will learn almost nothing from dying multiple times, but listen to me, she has an infinite time limit and infinite possible actions, eventually at random Chara would accidentally make the right set of moves and actions to beat Tricky
 
EnderLord8 said:
The point is Chara will be insane and will learn almost nothing from dying multiple times, but listen to me, she has an infinite time limit and infinite possible actions, eventually at random Chara would accidentally make the right set of moves and actions to beat Tricky
Click to expand...
I mean they can give up once they run out of Determination after dying hundreds of times.
 
EnderLord8 said:
Have you ever heard of the Infinite Monkey Theorem? Insane Chara's wincon would be this in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Doesn't really tell me how Chara avoids tricky infinitely spawning avatars which would just replace the main tricky that theoretically dies considering his immortalities.

again, the chances of Chara killing BOTH avatars, in hell and where they started, is literally near impossible. (also not including the fact tricky could respawn the hell one or the skeletal one as he wishes, if one or the other dies.)
 
Comiphorous said:
Doesn't really tell me how Chara avoids tricky infinitely spawning avatars which would just replace the main tricky that theoretically dies considering his immortalities.

again, the chances of Chara killing BOTH avatars, in hell and where they started, is literally near impossible. (also not including the fact tricky could respawn the hell one or the skeletal one as he wishes, if one or the other dies.)
Click to expand...
As I said before, eventually Chara would do the right set of actions to avoid all the clones and manage to kill Tricky.
koopa3144 said:
I mean they can give up once they run out of Determination after dying hundreds of times.
Click to expand...
Well that's a good question, how many times can Chara try before he runs out of determination to try again? Can she remain without determination? Would Madness Manipulation make her more determined?

If she runs out of resolve then she wouldn't have infinite tries, which would mean she wouldn't have a wincon, but Tricky would which could turn this match into a stomp.
 
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