Chara New key (Genocide Frisk)

[Eden_Warlock99]

Genocide Frisk should have a key, he/she has lots of feats, Hax that Chara lacks and we even have Undyne Undying which scales to her/him.

so I guess I should go into his/her feats:

AP:

One shot Toriel at just LV 3

Cut Undyne in half with a single attack, and beat Undyne the Undying at LV 10

Undyne also states...

• This isn't just about monsters anymore, is it?
• If you get past me, you'll...
• You'll destroy them all, won't you?
• Monsters... Humans... Everyone...
• Everyone's hopes. Everyone's dreams. Vanquished in an instant.
• But I WON'T let you do that.

this thread talks about how strong the Undertale humans are.

One shot Royal guards at LV 12-15

One shot Muffet at LV 12-15

One Shot Mettaton Neo at LV 15

Mettaton also states...

-AFTER OUR FIRST MEETING... I REALIZED... SOMETHING GHASTLY. YOU'RE NOT JUST A THREAT TO MONSTERS... BUT HUMANITY, AS WELL. OH MY. THAT'S AN ISSUE. YOU SEE, I CAN'T BE A STAR WITHOUT AN AUDIENCE.

Completely stomped ASGORE at LV 20, But that's obvious

Speed:

We already have His/Her speed in the Chara Profile

Hax:

He/She would have all of Frisk's abilities except Immortality (Type 3),Fear Manipulation, (made Doggo feel a chill all over his body even though he/she didn't know who he was fighting or where she was).

Also,

I got a counter argument about the Killing intent stuff, I think it makes Frisk stronger, and it doesn't make the monsters weak.

I think everyone knows what happened before the Undyne the Undying fight, Undyne gets in front of Monster kid to protect him and gets cut in half in the process.

So why does this prove what I claimed? It does because not only was Undyne cut in half, but her Armor was also cut in half.

Where If you have less killer intent, a.k.a spare monster kid,you can't even crack it, and No her armor isn't a part of her body and wouldn't get weaker with her, as we see her without her armor, and it disappearing is the same with Papyrus's battle body, which isn't a part of his body but still turns to dust when he dies.

And No it isn't made from Magic, as it is likely made from similar material to The Royal Guard weapons, which is made of Granite.

Papyrus doesn't contradict this as I don't disagree with Monsters getting depowered when they don't want to Fight and spare you is shown multiple time in the Game with Betrayal kills and it doesn't disprove Killing intent being a power increase.

There's also Mettaton Neo, who is Vessel made of Metal,and him being posseded by a ghost doesn't change anything, as when Ghosts turn corporeal with their bodies they get it's durability, this is shown with Glad Dummy.

And The dust sounds doesn't make him a Monster as even destroying a Dummy makes that sound.

And Yet Killing intent made Geno Frisk do more than 3 Time the Atk amount when he didn't have that much killing intent.

So Killing intent like LOVE is a power increase.

 

[Deadice69]

agree

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

I agree.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Bump

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I agree.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Agreed.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

bump

 

[Theuser789]

I agree I guess

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

bump

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Makes sense.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I could've sworn Chara already had 2 keys. Hm. But we should actually add one for the pre-death version of her.

Also, a feat for Frisk, she was nearly unharmed by the mountain fall, which stunned Chara.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

I agree with this.

Also, for only the first counterargument, killing intent is not the reason of the monsters being temporarily weakened, so killing intent making Frisk stronger doesn't actually disproves that. It's their weakness of not fighting back, which you already know that this is what lowers both their defenses and their guard (not sure for Sans tho since they are the only exception due to their speed apparently).

Other than that, to back up your point about the armor, Frisk was able to cause one of the royal guards to remove their armor due to them experiencing too much heat being absorbed into the armor.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should be done here in summary?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Chara gets a new Key that's like this

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine.

 

[GyroNutz]

Wouldn't it be better to wait for Saikou's thread to be concluded?

 

[Lord_JJJ]

I agree with everything, with the exception of only one thing. Frisk is the one who should get a new key for the genocide run, not chara

 

[Antvasima]

@GyroNutz

I trust your sense of judgement, but do not remember it well myself.

 

[GyroNutz]

This is Saikou's thread. The second part of the CRT seems to be a direct rebuttal to that thread.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I agree with everything, with the exception of only one thing. Frisk is the one who should get a new key for the genocide run, not chara

Well in the end of the Genocide run Chara takes full control over Frisk

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

This is Saikou's thread. The second part of the CRT seems to be a direct rebuttal to that thread.

The Killing intent stuff was rejected

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Everything on that thread was rejected lol

 

[Lord_JJJ]

I agree with everything, with the exception of only one thing. Frisk is the one who should get a new key for the genocide run, not chara

Well in the end of the Genocide run Chara takes full control over Frisk

Most of th feats from before the end of the Genocide

Maybe Both should got Genocide key?

 

[GyroNutz]

There was disagreement, but pretty sure there were still some things that weren't conclusively dis/agreed on.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Adem Warlock

Regarding the monster's weakness of killing intent, the only 2 main ways of exploiting this weakness is either Geno Frisk uses methods of social influence & then finish them off when they eventually allow you to spare them or Genocide Frisk uses the real knife on them.

Destroying all of the monsters the normal way in the Genocide Route wouldn't automatically trigger the monster's weakness unless they willingly spare you as a way to convince you not to attack them (like Mad Dummy and Papyrus). So we can't say that the LV stat, which increases through killing monsters, can't increase your power & we can still scale that to Geno Frisk or otherwise it will be kind of inconsistent to scale them.

 

[Antvasima]

@Gyro

So should we close this thread, and continue in the other one?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

bump

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The "monsters weaken when they don't want to fight" and "monsters are weak to negative emotions" were two different statements. Your power increase mostly revolves around having better equipment.

This is well shown with Toriel. You can easily one-shot her, a monster on pár with Asgore, but then by sparing Jerry later on Asgore can tank several attacks from you regardless of stat increases and all that. Acting like the strings of nines is not cause by killing intent just doesn't work. Frisk scales above Asgore in sheer stats, but there is no One-shotting going on there.

Beyond that, the fear manipulation happens due to genocide, so Frisk losing that doesn't make much sense.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The new key should merely be 9-A for being above Asgore Dreemurr, and should keep fear manip, but otherwise everything is fine.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

But Genocide Frisk is above basic Frisk, with higher killing intent Geno Frisk could cut Undyne's Armor in half, even tho said Armor shouldn't get any weaker from killing intent, cause it's metal Armor not a Monster, This would mean that Genocide Frisk gets power boosts from killing intent and he/she was a threat to humanity, who don't have the killing intent weakness

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And yet the very act of sparing monster kid makes the same Frisk with the same LV fail to one-shot Undyne.

And same for all following monsters.

And the only stat amp Frisk gets is from LV, not raw intent. There is a statement monsters will die to intent more easily, so headcanon isn't taking priority here.

Also, Alphys had to use scraps of trash to make Undyne a great sword because she didn't have metal. It would make far more sense that stuff they have is made out of magic.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

That's cause if you spare monster kid your killing intent isn't as strong, Frisk wouldn't have the Killing intent boost that he/she had against Monster Kid

The Statement doesn't contradict it being a power boost, "the crueller the intentions of our ennemies, the more their attacks will hurt us" which could also be a power boost

also, the Royal Guards's weapons and Armor isn't made of Magic, it's confirmed in Lesser Dog's CHECK

This doesn't really debunk my point

there's also mettaton Neo, Who somehow takes more damage from attacks that have higher killing intent, even tho Mettaton, is literally made of Metal

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

But either way, Chara frisk Genocide Kid would still be "At least 9-A, likely far higher" cause he/she can tank hits from Undyne the undying, and killing intent was never stated or even implied to make the monsters attacks weaker, and Geno Frisk can't be a Stone wall cause, he/she has Higher Atk than Def