Chaos made me higher dimensional meme, DMC edition.

[Antvasima]

Which members agree and which disagree here so far?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Still, I don't see enough material in this specific statement to consider that it's talking about Ray in a geometric view + showcasing a difference in dimensions, such upgrade is insane and the manga doesn't give anything close to enough proof to consider that. You first say it is literall and therefore can't be the 2nd interpretation, then, you say it isn't literall cuz it's not about actual Light and Darkness, it may not be, mind you, but why that makes this "ray" something related to the geometry ? The meanings obviously used light or heat as examples of ray, but it can be a ray of something else (like the "substances" u said), that doesn't make it 1D. So many questions and problems with this quote

I think you missed my point of what exactly I called literal. Honestly whatever it is made up of is irrelevant, it can be made up of sugar, salt, flesh or bones....etc etc. The composition is irrelevant here, since it has never been a factor in our tiering system nor is it used that way in fiction
What I called literal is how the size and shape of the realms are compared to each other in this relationship, its the equivalence that is important. Maybe saying the word "literal" for my purposes is giving off wrong vibes, so lets stop using that.
Obviously HW isn't literally a ray made up of photons or electrons, nor is it a ray of hope or happiness or some such emotion.
I don't need to extrapolate anything, I just need to take the manga at first glance simply as its supposed to be taken.
Like what else would be nature of comparison between 2 realms??
Since by this is same gripe being called "flat" w.r.t something shouldn't qualify at all and shouldn't be used as standard on page.

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparision to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.

Because calling something flat is even more questionable than "ray". Here's Merriam Websters' definition of Flat.

Definition of FLAT

lying at full length or spread out upon the ground : prostrate; utterly ruined or destroyed; resting with a surface against something… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

When something doesn't have bumps or pits on its surface then its flat. Hardly something worth considering for tiering. But surprisingly when flatness is used in context of comparing to realms....the meaning suddenly becomes clear and validated. At that its quite obvious its talking in a geometric 2D×3D shenanigans.
What we have here is something more impressive, we literally have direct statement of one realm being called ray/line against against another.

But that isn't enough, you also need infinite difference in power, which as you can already see we have also provided. The source material covers itself on both grounds.

Saying something is a line with no context is not a good way to prove 1-C. Light tends to be, well, a ray, which is what I think they were going for. You're extrapolating something that isn't there.

Calling something flat isn't either in vaccum, context matters. Which we have and its more impressive than being flat. Also see above reply made to Lightning.

A universe within a universe isn't out of the ordinary. And the outer universe does not have to be higher dimensional to contain it either.

Obviously. Its just one of the supportive arguements which is supposed work in tandem with other arguements to comply with tiering system.

This is a 3-A feat at best? We don't automatically assume something of universal size is Low 2-C, let alone 1-C.

Well then its nice it isn't 3A. Its low2C, has always been ever since we have made crts about those in distant past and even discussed to death many times. This isn't up for debate. Its just a supporting point.

I'm sure Ultima agreed on the past thread over it just being HDE, but not smurf hax, so in a battle it'd just mean someone would require interdimensional range to affect DMC souls, as he mentioned here

Not really, as Ultima pointed out, being higher dimensional doesn't mean the gap is infinite (aka, tier 1), and we go with the lower thing by default, so anyone with 2-C range would cover it, and so it wouldn't require tier 1 range to begin with. Anything further would require for souls to be actually tier 1 for our purposes in the first place, to which I still disagree FRA.

Uhhh no. No one said Range automatically means Power. And no 2C range doesn't allow you to reach something 9D or 1C( both are same sizes btw on tiering system as Sevil pointed out, just a difference in power).
Also there's two type of ranges here, on for the reach of attack, and other for its area of effect.
For example a ICBM has ranges in 10k-15K miles but has only city wide lvls of atomic blast radius
See two different types of ranges.

For DMC you would need both 9D range and AoE range to successfully kill them, since normal attacks would only affect 3D-4D cross sections of souls, while the rest remains intact.
Here is Ultima giving a better explanation for range.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Which members agree and which disagree here so far?

Only MrOvens has commented so far as mods are concerned. He hasn't shown any agreements yet. Rest of mods tagged have yet to say anything about proposal.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

So, reading through the thread, I'm honestly pretty lost here. Towards the end of the post, you make it clear the interpretation being taken here is that the Demon World and the Human World are both contained inside of this primordial chaos, and you then further clarify that the latter two don't scale to it at all because of this, and that chaos is higher-dimensional compared to the Demon World, too. And yet, your reasoning for the primordial chaos embedding both of them as infinitesimal subsets of itself revolves entirely around statements referring to... the Demon World? Unless I'm mistaken the argument seems to be that the chaos would view the Demon World in the same way the Demon World views the Human world, but I haven't seen much direct evidence of that.

I'll also point out that, even if the primal chaos is indeed 1-C, you haven't really provided evidence souls would scale to that. Something qualifying for Tier 1 based on statements about higher dimemsions doesn't mean that everything else qualifies for it, too. This is only the case if the verse makes it clear that -all- higher-dimensional things have infinitely more power compared to lower-dimensional ones. If it doesn't, and you have to argue it qualifies using other types of evidence (Which is evidently the case here), then that opens up the possibility for things of the same dimensionality having different ratings, even if it's the same verse.

In fact, thinking about it a bit more, I have a question related to that second point, too: The scan saying that souls are 9-D forms also says that they not only originate from a higher dimension but also return to that place after death. This would imply that these souls, despite being higher-dimensional, can still exist in the normal universe, no? This is probably a minor point (Comparatively, at least), but I feel it's worth noting regardless. I know shit about Devil May Cry, so, obviously open to being corrected.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Ultima. It is very appreciated.

 

[Sevil Natas]

ngl this thread would be less complicated if we just accepted the fact that the chaos is just the original universe before the split that took place.
remember, the endless darkness was not the demon world at the time. it only was called that after the split. the primordial chaos PoC is talking about is just that since it's the place that was basically the old demon world and it was described as a crucible of chaos. not to mention the demon world is the place where demons and human souls go after death so that'd be the most fitting place the statement is talking about for the stuff that ultima pointed up above and to answer the question,

This would imply that these souls, despite being higher-dimensional, can still exist in the normal universe, no?

yes they do. souls were shown in the human world. mainly demons souls. heck, some demons are JUST souls. though how does this affect the proposals?


one more thing I'd like to address here is the demons' origin statement. it says the primordial chaos spawned them as in gave birth to them. and the demon world is the one currently forming them. not that the demon world is the one giving their physical forms or whatever. they can get those just via their names.
the main point I'm getting at here is that the primordial chaos isn't some realm beyond the demon world. in a way it is the demon world before it was split into 2

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So, reading through the thread, I'm honestly pretty lost here. Towards the end of the post, you make it clear the interpretation being taken here is that the Demon World and the Human World are both contained inside of this primordial chaos, and you then further clarify that the latter two don't scale to it at all because of this, and that chaos is higher-dimensional compared to the Demon World, too. And yet, your reasoning for the primordial chaos embedding both of them as infinitesimal subsets of itself revolves entirely around statements referring to... the Demon World? Unless I'm mistaken the argument seems to be that the chaos would view the Demon World in the same way the Demon World views the Human world, but I haven't seen much direct evidence of that.

Pretty much your last line is our argument, since the demon world and the human world are the only 2 dimensions in verse we fully know of and they exist "at the same level" despite having such a difference in existence and complexity between them, while Chaos is referred as the existence that predates both and is a higher dimension compared to the demon world.

I'll also point out that, even if the primal chaos is indeed 1-C, you haven't really provided evidence souls would scale to that. Something qualifying for Tier 1 based on statements about higher dimemsions doesn't mean that everything else qualifies for it, too. This is only the case if the verse makes it clear that -all- higher-dimensional things have infinitely more power compared to lower-dimensional ones. If it doesn't, and you have to argue it qualifies using other types of evidence (Which is evidently the case here), then that opens up the possibility for things of the same dimensionality having different ratings, even if it's the same verse.

This is the only thing I don't really have much to say, we have statements about soul and devil arms (physical representation of souls) having infinite/unlimited power and being used to power gates between the human and demon world but nothing else I can recall in this moment.

Our argument here mainly is their existence being on the same level as chaos and scaling somewhat somehow.

In fact, thinking about it a bit more, I have a question related to that second point, too: The scan saying that souls are 9-D forms also says that they not only originate from a higher dimension but also return to that place after death. This would imply that these souls, despite being higher-dimensional, can still exist in the normal universe, no? This is probably a minor point (Comparatively, at least), but I feel it's worth noting regardless. I know shit about Devil May Cry, so, obviously open to being corrected.

Yeah, they mainly exist as demons. Some needing to possess stuff to exist in the human world as they can't cross physically thanks to a seal/barrier/dimensional wall while they have physical bodies in the demon world. Then again, humans are supposed to have these higher dimensional souls too but they can't interact with them.

ngl this thread would be less complicated if we just accepted the fact that the chaos is just the original universe before the split that took place.
remember, the endless darkness was not the demon world at the time. it only was called that after the split. the primordial chaos PoC is talking about is just that since it's the place that was basically the old demon world and it was described as a crucible of chaos. not to mention the demon world is the place where demons and human souls go after death so that'd be the most fitting place the statement is talking about for the stuff that ultima pointed up above and to answer the question,

Again, the darkness has ALWAYS been the demon world, it just got another name. Just to show it isn't like it became something different we have examples like how Mundus himself still calls it the darkness, or how it is called the magic world, the abyss, etc. All just names for the same thing while chaos is actually differentiated from it.

I will continue ******** on all of you for not being able to read a damn manga and making this more complicated than it needs to be.

one more thing I'd like to address here is the demons' origin statement. it says the primordial chaos spawned them as in gave birth to them. and the demon world is the one currently forming them. not that the demon world is the one giving their physical forms or whatever. they can get those just via their names.
the main point I'm getting at here is that the primordial chaos isn't some realm beyond the demon world. in a way it is the demon world before it was split into 2

This song and dance again.

Chaos spawns demons, abyss gave them form. demons predate the creation of the demon world itself

It has no logic, mental power or anything to see how they are not the same thing, the darkness isn't the chaos and you can't link them in any way since PoC made it crystal clear they aren't the same.

 

[Sevil Natas]

alright then. I'm going to be staying neutral on this topic for now

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here, given Ultima's latest post?

 

[Bobsican]

Ultima merely asked for clarifications, he's yet to say his proper thoughts on the matter, beyond finding tier 1 as questionable.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[Sevil Natas]

bump.

why did this die all of a sudden?

 

[Antvasima]

Ultima merely asked for clarifications, he's yet to say his proper thoughts on the matter, beyond finding tier 1 as questionable.

@Ultima_Reality

Can you help us out here further, so we can finally wrap up this thread, please?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

BBump

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I cannot force Ultima to be interested in this thread.

What has already been accepted here so far that still needs to be applied to the relevant wiki pages?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Neither can I

Idk, I just wanted the green light to treat this chaos like dimension as a real 1-C dimension and everything that comes with it nothing needs to be added and this thread doesn't change anything unless we make profiles for all the dimensions in DMC

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I can try again if you wish.

@Ultima_Reality @Ovy7 @Ionliosite @First_Witch @Elizhaa @KingPin0422 @QuasiYuri @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12

Would you be willing to try to evaluate this thread please?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Thank you

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Same concerns as Ultima, except that I clearly think it means the current evidence isn't enough.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the reply. Has this thread been rejected then?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I read the OP and well the proofs are a bit disjointed
Can you explain what the eightfold path is, also what the peak of combat is?

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

I read the OP and well the proofs are a bit disjointed
Can you explain what the eightfold path is, also what the peak of combat is?

PoC is a mobile game a continuation of DMC 3 and there's a thread of it discussed being canon if you wanna ask if it's canon, the eightfold path i'll leave to the others since i'm not really that knowledgeable in dmc

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I read the OP and well the proofs are a bit disjointed
Can you explain what the eightfold path is, also what the peak of combat is?

PoC, like they said above, is a new entry in the Devil May Cry series, made by a chinese studies as a mobile game. It is canon, it's stated to be set between the events of DMC3 and DMC1 (a 9 year blank period so they are free to mess there).

The eightfold path has little to no explanation and it is not the reason for our arguments. But if you wonder it is a real life concept of Buddhism, something, something, it leads to nirvana (which considering how stupid PoC is we might see more tier 1 bs when the game fully drops).

The summary of the argument is: Human world (regular universe) is a form of existence that is dwarfed by the demon world, a ray of light in an infinite darkness (not flowery language if you wonder). Chaos, the dimension where the 9 dimensional souls go and are created, is a higher dimension beyond the demon world.

 

[PrinceofPein]

PoC, like they said above, is a new entry in the Devil May Cry series, made by a chinese studies as a mobile game. It is canon, it's stated to be set between the events of DMC3 and DMC1 (a 9 year blank period so they are free to mess there).

So it is unreleased from what I can read here

The eightfold path has little to no explanation and it is not the reason for our arguments. But if you wonder it is a real life concept of Buddhism, something, something, it leads to nirvana (which considering how stupid PoC is we might see more tier 1 bs when the game fully drops).

Actually I was asking if the eightfold path is some sort of eight dimensional space or something but well that’s okay

The summary of the argument is: Human world (regular universe) is a form of existence that is dwarfed by the demon world, a ray of light in an infinite darkness (not flowery language if you wonder). Chaos, the dimension where the 9 dimensional souls go and are created, is a higher dimension beyond the demon world.

A ray of light in infinite darkness actually sounds a bit flowery tbh and also doesn’t exactly mean much as a larger 3D space can contain a much much much smaller one

So I think you will need a bigger proof of the higher dimensions being R>F or something similar so I agree with Ultima and Yuri that there is little evidence other than a single statement that may mean a lot of thing

 

[Sevil Natas]

So it is unreleased from what I can read here

no. it has been released since June.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

A ray of light in infinite darkness actually sounds a bit flowery tbh and also doesn’t exactly mean much as a larger 3D space can contain a much much much smaller one

We explained this several times but in short it isn't, the demon world is literally that. The existence of the human world is nothing, a speck of dust in the wind compared to the Demon world. And then chaos is supposed to be an actual higher dimension that predates the basic principles of its existence.

So I think you will need a bigger proof of the higher dimensions being R>F or something similar so I agree with Ultima and Yuri that there is little evidence other than a single statement that may mean a lot of thing

Tbf this gal (BBum) has way less than what we are presenting here and yet...

But anyways, it isn't just one statement, it's all we know about the dimensions in verse and how they are treated with regards to the others.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Tbf this gal (BBum) has way less than what we are presenting here and yet...

BB has R/F

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

A ray of light in infinite darkness actually sounds a bit flowery tbh and also doesn’t exactly mean much as a larger 3D space can contain a much much much smaller one

3D spaces can also contain points and lines, either of which is less than 3D. HW is a line.

So I think you will need a bigger proof of the higher dimensions being R>F or something similar so I agree with Ultima and Yuri that there is little evidence other than a single statement that may mean a lot of thing

R-F isn't necessary, size and power is more than enough, as I have myself outlined using Tiering FAQ.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm no expert, but don't you need like mathematical vectors for size in order to qualify for true higher dimensions? Like all the evidence presented here does not tell me Chaos has 9 vectors of dimension and is just telling me that it's unfathomably bigger than Earth which is like, ok? Earth can be the size of an atom in comparison, but that still does not make your existence more complex.

The ray of light thing is cool and all, but even if taken literally, that just means Earth is a single line in comparison to Chaos. If you are 6 dimensions higher than something, I sincerely doubt it would look just "flat".

This has been, without a doubt, the most convoluted way to present nothing and gain nothing outside of a caveat.

At the absolute best, Chaos is Low 1-C from the line thing, but that is a massive consideration to take because if all we have to go on is just one statement, I don't think we should take it as literal.

 

[Bobsican]

Actually...

I think the ones doing the CRT are cherrypicking fantranslations or something, as for a good while they presented this (most notable difference is that it's called a "ray", not a "line", and then suddendly just bringed up an "edited" version respectively where it's called a "line".

Therefore, either they don't know what translated version to use (And so just bring the raw JP scans of that instead at this point), or this is editing to wank the verse, which is a ban-worthy offense per site rules.

 

[KLOL506]

Actually...

I think the ones doing the CRT are cherrypicking fantranslations or something, as for a good while they presented this (most notable difference is that it's called a "ray", not a "line", and then suddendly just bringed up an "edited" version respectively where it's called a "line".

Therefore, either they don't know what translated version to use (And so just bring the raw JP scans of that instead at this point), or this is editing to wank the verse, which is a ban-worthy offense per site rules.

These are the RAWs:

果てなき闇　混沌の坩堝
だが その世界にも一条の光が差し

やがて世界は二つに分かれた
闇の世界は魔界

光の世は人界
二つの世界は共にあり続けた 長い永い間

@TISSG7Redgrave (A former staff member and translator on this wiki) translated the raws and said this:

Endless darkness A crucible of chaos

But even in that world one streak of light shone through

And in that time the world split into two

The darkness became the demon world

The light became the human world

These two worlds have existed for a long long time

The RAWs are available on Divinity Statue

 

[Sevil Natas]

I'm no expert, but don't you need like mathematical vectors for size in order to qualify for true higher dimensions? Like all the evidence presented here does not tell me Chaos has 9 vectors of dimension and is just telling me that it's unfathomably bigger than Earth which is like, ok? Earth can be the size of an atom in comparison, but that still does not make your existence more complex.

The ray of light thing is cool and all, but even if taken literally, that just means Earth is a single line in comparison to Chaos. If you are 6 dimensions higher than something, I sincerely doubt it would look just "flat".

just want to address this misconception for the 4th time

you don't really need anything more than being stated to be higher dimensional in order to qualify as such(ofc provided the statement is blatant about that and isn't using the word dimension to mean universe or realm). the soul statement alone makes the soul and the realm it originates from 9th Dimensional. there is no true higher dimensions and fake higher dimensions. they all are the same in terms of size. this is a common misconception in the wiki for some reason. the only difference in dimensions that are tier 1 arent different to ones that aren't in terms of their nature. the only difference is that one has infinite potency over the other. but it's just that. potency. they are the same in terms of how many directions they span across.
here are the references from the FAQ

Are higher-dimensional beings infinitely larger than lower-dimensional equivalents?​

In a way, yes, though not how most would think when using this word. Basically, an arbitrary object of dimension n is essentially comprised by the total sum of uncountably infinite objects of one dimension less, which may be described as lower-dimensional "slices", each corresponding to one of the infinite points of a line. For instance, a square is made of infinitely many line segments (Lined up on the y-axis), a cube of infinitely many squares (Lined up on the z-axis), and so on.

Do note, however, that them not qualifying for Tier 2 and above doesn't mean they are "fake" higher-dimensional beings or anything of the sort. It is simply that being higher-dimensional does not inherently mean they have infinite power in the first place, as explained above.

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

plus the human world is not the earth. It's the universe that humans live on in DMC. and the line statement doesn't apply directly to the chaos according to the OP it applies to the demon world.

with all that being said, I'm still not convinced about this thread. mainly due to the lack of evidence about the chaos and its nature. specifically, it encompasseing the human and demon world. so again I'm remaining neutral.

 

[Antvasima]

Going by the above responses, this thread seems to have been rejected, so we should probably close it soon.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Actually...

I think the ones doing the CRT are cherrypicking fantranslations or something, as for a good while they presented this (most notable difference is that it's called a "ray", not a "line", and then suddendly just bringed up an "edited" version respectively where it's called a "line".

Therefore, either they don't know what translated version to use (And so just bring the raw JP scans of that instead at this point), or this is editing to wank the verse, which is a ban-worthy offense per site rules.

Okay this piece of shit of a post is something I wont allow. We have been posting both scans several times and been using both terms several ******* times in all the threads this has been going on.

This isn't some stupid cherrypicking Kindomg Hearts style just to wank. As you might or might not understand the ray/line part has been used because it showcases the difference between both dimensions. The OP was clear in using both terms and not in cherrypicking either one, even in the thread you posted we have been using both all the time, neither is more relevant than the other.

Secondly, this isn't just some "edited version", we aren't the kind of people to pull shady shit like forging scans to wank. I'll explain and summarize the reasons so this kind of stupid comments don't arise again.

There are 2 versions of the manga that change both context and plot points, those being the official version and the devil's lair version, you can go and check the blogs in the verse page for more details about this but basically some pages are more accurate than others. We were using both for this pages because for all intents and purposes both work. Hell, as you can see with the raws someone posted above, the meaning doesn't ******* change.

So I will kindly ask you get your shit right before coming with these kind of accusations.

BB has R/F

The scans in the profile are worse than what we are using here, that was my point using her as a comparison. Also, would you mind explaining why she has it, preferably in DMs so we don't derail this thread.

 

[Bobsican]

The meaning in either case may be similar beyond obvious semantics on which is closer to the "dimensional" meaning of a line, but only one mentions "line", and it'd be inappropiate to act as if both were canon without anything to back that up (Say, worldview leading into one simply complementing the other).
Even if cherrypicking wasn't intended, it's still a poor practice.
I'd also avoid unfoundedly bashing other verses that have nothing to do with this, it's off-topic and comes as something of poor taste.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I'm no expert, but don't you need like mathematical vectors for size in order to qualify for true higher dimensions?

Since when? And what vectors? How does vector give size of dimensions? What new requirements and standards are you manufacturing out of thin air, Mister? And acting as if its a law that regularly needs to complied with?
Show me on Tiering page where its required where vectors make a dimensions true... give me bunch of examples where you made other verses acquiesce to these standards of Mathematical Vectors.
Because ngl this just feels like "Random bullshit go!!!" attempt to propagate faux image of us not being able to measure upto ""standards"".

Also this "true" dimensions shit again...seriously dude? Can you like find something hot and spicy to serve... cuz this is stale now. For better part of last thread and this thread( that's 1 month or more time spent) we have been regularly impressing upon you that dimensions aren't fake or true with the aid of FAQ page, and here you are making up stuff on the fly to block us.

Like I get it, both you and me are illiterate peasants in field of Tier 1. So I suggest just like me, you also read and use the FAQ page to oppose us instead of wasting my time and effort making me fight your Phantom Standard of Vector-based True Dimensions.

Like all the evidence presented here does not tell me Chaos has 9 vectors of dimension and is just telling me that it's unfathomably bigger than Earth which is like, ok? Earth can be the size of an atom in comparison, but that still does not make your existence more complex.

Earth? Where you getting that from?
I'll assume you are unaware of background info and jargons about DMC, since this is the first time me seeing you in a DMC thread since my joining here.
Just gonna inform Earth is just another name for Human Universe given in response to Demon World being called Heaven, even though neither Heaven nor Hell exist in DMC.
Heaven&Earth are used in pair always since their antonyms to each other.
Just putting this out here to avoid any confusion later. Check the Universe Blog on verse page for detailed explanation.

About the atom comparison, this is just a strawman. Said comparison has no similarity with issue at hand.

The ray of light thing is cool and all, but even if taken literally, that just means Earth is a single line in comparison to Chaos. If you are 6 dimensions higher than something, I sincerely doubt it would look just "flat".

Well HW is technically line in comparision to DW, well Chaos also by extension since its HD compared to even DW.
Also Chaos is *5 dimensions higher, since HW is low2C.

I mean nobody directly claimed HW w.r.t DW would appear flat and by extension both to Chaos( although technically it will qualify, I'll explain shortly ). Its just one of the ways you can qualify( partially at that) as allowed by FAQ page.

First a line always remains same inside a nth dimensional space no matter how large of a number n is. A line is represented by a linear equation, the number of variables it has determines its orientation and how it extends into those dimensional axxes.
But at end Line will always appear as line to Higher Dimensions. Nothing more and Nothing less.
As for "flatness" its just a descriptor which is easy to use when discussing lower dimensional objects in comparision to Higher Dimensional objects.
If 0<p<q, and q is any lower dimensional object while p is higher dimensional object ,then Lower Dimensional Objects occupy infinitesimally thin slice of higher dimensions, also called Cross Section .... hence they are "flat". Not actual 2D flat but just described that way since its an infintismal thin slice.

Hopefully that small lesson clears up some misconceptions.
Damn, you made me visit coordinate geomety after 5 years since I learned it in Maths, and I was and still am ******* dumbass in it, and I did not like revisiting this subject.

But it did not have to be this way. You don't need more than simple 7th grade logic to understand what the FAQ page means and demands, you don't require maths at all, no pseudo intellectual jargons and definitions are necessary. But the way you keep bringing up pseudo mathematical standards which don't exist on the page I need to wrack my brain to debunk it.
So kindly please just read the page and argue like a normal person.

At the absolute best, Chaos is Low 1-C from the line thing, but that is a massive consideration to take because if all we have to go on is just one statement, I don't think we should take it as literal.

You mean the Demon World?? We don't want to touch DW as of yet. So this is irrelevant.
Also dude I don't know if you actually properly read the OP or if you just have bad memory, but can you like at least verify the stuff before commenting?? Cuz it seems you just wing it with by assuming wrong facts and just strawman us.

Also what the ***** got number of statements got to do with its merit?? Just because its a single statement doesn't mean its truth value should be discarded. That's the most skewed logic I have ever seen.

This has been, without a doubt, the most convoluted way to present nothing and gain nothing outside of a caveat.

Doesn't matter that you think this upgrade is worthless, there's more to this than meets the eye. If Chaos becomes 1C, upgrade for DW becomes infinitely easier in future. And this thread is an attempt walk fine line of diplomacy between two different viewpoints in the DMC team. So this is important to me.
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Actually...

I think the ones doing the CRT are cherrypicking fantranslations or something, as for a good while they presented this (most notable difference is that it's called a "ray", not a "line", and then suddendly just bringed up an "edited" version respectively where it's called a "line".

Therefore, either they don't know what translated version to use (And so just bring the raw JP scans of that instead at this point), or this is editing to wank the verse, which is a ban-worthy offense per site rules.

This boils my blood!!
This is nothing but a baseless and ratty attempt to defame us with false accusations.
Instead of addressing the arguements honestly you have tried to assassinate Tony and my character.

Tony used the manga translation that he did in last thread because that is what is available to him in his device, I used a different version because that's what available to me on my device. Both are accepted versions on this site and have been for years. I have myself used those scans countless times on various threads.... so have been other versions used which are available to different persons of our team. I am perfectly within my rights to use my version, and no one can stop me.
I have used my version in OP to keep pages of manga consistent and because thats all what I have available, its not like I have one page from my version and one from Tony.
I had transparently revealed already in last thread, in a reaponse ironically to you of all people, that both versions mean the same ******* thing. I have repeatedly atleast MORE THAN HALF A DOZEN TIMES that ray and line will mean the same ******* thing, stop ignoring it.... or maybe you are doing this purposefully to push the false agenda that both are different.

Also how dare you call this wank!! I have sincerely created this thread even after 3 months of ignorance and strawmans we received, this is 3rd ******* thread now... which was supposed to be concise and sweet summation of all proposal from previous thread but now this thread is permanently tainted with your false accusation and bad faith arguements. Tony and me have been civilly and seriously responding to all opposition before this. The evidence we have posted complies with standards from FAQ thread which you guys don't even ******* read. All I have faced up untill this point is strawmans and imaginary Tiering standards. And now this vile attempt to sullly our reputation. Let me say that this evidence is loads better than what most verses try.

I expect you to take back your accusation within next comment, if you continue persist in this folly I will have you dragged to the RVR on accounts of heinous false accusations done in bad faith to posion the well and defile our reputation.

 

[Lormac_CC]

The scans in the profile are worse than what we are using here, that was my point using her as a comparison.

Dimensions in Nasu have Reality fiction transdence between higher and lower. This was why she was upgraded to 1-C in the first place, not just because of the 8 dimension scan

 

[Bobsican]

Oh sorry, I was just saying that as a possible outcome, I wasn't just blindly claiming it was done in bad faith, but rather that it could have been a possibility. Regardless, it's still a bad practice to interchangeably use two versions when one isn't really canon given poor translation practices, even if official, unless there's some statement to claim it's usable as well (say, being intended to be translated more directly than the JP one, which clearly isn't the case here).

 

[Antvasima]

So, given that it seems very unlikely that our staff will accept these revisions, is it fine if I close this thread?