Chaos Force Low 1-C Upgrade?

[ApeXeno]

It's finally happening.

 

[Asriel77]

i agree with the upgrade fra

 

[Delta333]

pretty sure higher plane is not enough for low 1-C

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Just woke up.

It seems like a lot of people noticed the “outside of space-time” and “higher plane of reality” statements but somehow not the “they transcended into the Chaos Force” bit. I’ll respond later.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

The statement regarding "evolving to a higher plane" was said from the perspective of a 3 dimensional being, it's clear to me that the echidna was referring to the basic space-time, not the actual 4th dimension.

This is similar situation to Kyubey's statement regarding Madoka's transcends space-time, a statement that was said from 3 dimensional perspective by a 3-D being.

 

[Theuser789]

Holy shit, it feels like this thread was hit by a tornado

 

[Mister6ame6]

I agree with the upgrade seems pretty clear cut for me.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

That simply means that evolving into chaos force means that characters using chaos force simply cant die anymore.There is nothing stating here that 4D or lower cant do anything to them.Like Bernkastelll said,its type 8 immortality at best.

Then your pulling a massive headcanon because the whole point was that The Brotherhood would be in a higher dimensional plane that no lower dimensional planes can’t touch, plus characters like Archie Sonic who are 4th Dimensional already have type 8 immortality lol.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Then your pulling a massive headcanon because the whole point was that The Brotherhood would be in a higher dimensional plane that no lower dimensional planes can’t touch, plus characters like Archie Sonic who are 4th Dimensional already have type 8 immortality lol.

They can have more than 1 types of immortality type 8

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Following. Right now I agree

 

[Cul0r]

The Chaos Force is described as a higher plane and beyond space-time:

It is shown that those on higher planes of existence are imperceptible to beings of lower planes. The process of ascending into the Chaos Force is referred to as “transcending” twice, and Athair described his oneness with the Chaos Force as existing in a realm ”far beyond comprehension”, implying higher-dimensionality.

Characters who scale to this
The Ancient Walkers, Aurora, Chaos Knuckles, and Enerjak are one with the Chaos Force.

Master Mogul wounded the Ancient Walkers, and Super Sonic battled against the former. Super Sonic, Turbo Tails, and Hyper Knuckles could all engage in combat with Mammoth Mogul's first tenure, albeit Mammoth Mogul could fend them off. While those that are one with the Chaos Force will be straight up Low 1-C, Super Forms should downscale but are still roughly comparable. As such, they should be At least 2-A, likely Low 1-C.

During his second rise to godhood, Master Mogul took complete control over the Chaos Force’s power, and Titan Tails matched and defeated him.

And lastly, the Super Genesis Wave and/or Super Sonic’s Chaos Control destroyed the Chaos Force.

this makes sense

 

[Cul0r]

I agree

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I noticed the Chaos Force got called a higher plane of reality which isn’t accurate. The Chaos Force is actually beyond that higher plane, as shown by the portal Knuckles creates to return to it and the Chaos Force itself being described as a realm outside of space-time. The scan Mav used in the OP was cropped. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6l-y_YQ-YzA/VtpIrVD2DJI/AAAAAAAADWk/XoRDGHKGlwA/s1600-Ic42/RCO007.jpg

 

[ShakeResounding]

Funny how we have all these arguments popping up and then staff are still popping up and voicing agreement for OP kek

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

I agree with Low 1-C. No offense to the opposing side, but the arguments against this upgrade presented in this thread is literally mental gymnastics.

 

[GoldenBoyBlue]

I disagree on the basis that Mav made it.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

The statement regarding "evolving to a higher plane" was said from the perspective of a 3 dimensional being, it's clear to me that the echidna was referring to the basic space-time, not the actual 4th dimension.

This is similar situation to Kyubey's statement regarding Madoka's transcends space-time, a statement that was said from 3 dimensional perspective by a 3-D being.

^^^^

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Didn't read the entire discussion on detail but I kinda interest on the topic.

off to go downgrade pokemon, gl, and a whole bunch of other verses cause 3d beings can see and interacted with higher dimensional beings

Excuse me, but Gurren Lagann is adequate as High 1-C via our Tiering System standards since the verse does corresponds to Large Extradimensional Space with its brane mechanics which explicited the universes are being confined within membranes amongst their extra dimensions which is up to 11D, so it's not even a good comparison to begin with.

That being said, I'd stay neutral for this but leaning towards agreeing, your verse, in the context for "transcending time and space" doesn't necessarily have an indication of "reality-fiction" difference in order to be qualified as Low 1-C rating, our standards never said that, as long the context behind it is about higher plane of reality it may be qualified as one. Reality-fiction is one of our criterias but in order to be counted as higher dimensional space, it isn't necessarily have to be on that way.

Tiering System FAQ

Q: What tier is transcending space and time?​ A: As said above, "transcending space and time" is a very vague statement by itself and can mean multiple things depending on the context in which it is made, as well as how this characteristic is portrayed in the first place. It is perfectly possible for such a statement to mean that a character is simply "untied" from the universe's spacetime, and is thus unaffected by alterations in the timeline and similar meddlings. Likewise, it's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space." However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions. The answer may vary depending on this factor. It should also be noted that simply existing in some alternate state of existence that lacks time and/or space is not really grounds for any tier in particular, as lacking such things does not translate to being superior to them, and would most often overlap with abilities like Acausality or Nonexistent Physiology. A good example of a case like this is Dormammu (Marvel Cinematic Universe), who is stated to exist in a realm "far beyond time," yet never actually displays any superiority over it, and is in fact vulnerable to time-based abilities due to his timeless nature.

So, if the context is about, "transcends time and space", "higher level existence", "far beyond understanding", then I can see it as Tier 1 if not with likely/possibly.

Edit: Fixing some typos

 

[Greenshifter]

Sign me up for Low 1-C as well then. Just a question though, why only a likely Low 1-C for the Super forms?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

I'd like to see the evidence of all the sonic characters being 4-D BEFORE they become one with Chaos Force. Oh, I also would like to see the evidence of Chaos Force being anything beyond 4-D as well.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Sign me up for Low 1-C as well then. Just a question though, why only a likely Low 1-C for the Super forms?

Since they downscale from the low 1-Cs

 

[Greenshifter]

I mean downscaling from Low 1-C's just makes those Low 1-C's higher above baseline, it doesn't put you under baseline.

 

[Vietthai96]

I mean, if this going to be accepted, i'm going big with DBH low 1-C lol

 

[Theuser789]

5D Archie has nothing to do with Dragon Ball, why are people bringing other franchises?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Isn't this like already good to go? literally everyone agrees

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I'd like to see the evidence of all the sonic characters being 4-D BEFORE they become one with Chaos Force. Oh, I also would like to see the evidence of Chaos Force being anything beyond 4-D as well.

I mean transcending space and time in the literal sense is already low 1-C

 

[Vietthai96]

5D Archie has nothing to do with Dragon Ball, why are people bringing other franchises?

Well just joking though

Isn't this like already good to go? literally everyone agrees

Not quite, still need more input

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

As long as it doesn't involve these outdated points:

Which outdated points?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

I mean transcending space and time in the literal sense is already low 1-C

Transcending space-time without any slightest context is considered 4-D at max, if you're lucky enough to get this accepted.. The scan OP provides only talks about "former" 3-D being talks about what happen to any 3-D being if they "died".

Those Echidnas were used to be 3-D creatures, and them evolving to a higher plane obviously referring to the 4-D.

You don't get to just from 3-D to 5-D with mere statement of "Transcending space-time".

 

[Trumpty_Dumpty]

Isn't this like already good to go? literally everyone agrees

Someone is preparing a whole essay for debunking this, so not yet.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I mean transcending space and time in the literal sense is already low 1-C

Need a bit more staff input. I’m typing up a refutation to the current counter arguments right now.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Transcending space-time without any slightest context is considered 4-D at max, if you're lucky enough to get this accepted.. The scan OP provides only talks about "former" 3-D being talks about what happen to any 3-D being if they "died".

Those Echidnas were used to be 3-D creatures, and them evolving to a higher plane obviously referring to the 4-D.

You don't get to just from 3-D to 5-D with mere statement of "Transcending space-time".

In this case, it's incorrect, I've literally gave you how our standards works, transcending time and space in the sense of higher plane of reality, with indication of superiority over said spacetime (not necessarily reality-fiction), is in fact enough to warrant Low 1-C rating.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

In this case, it's incorrect, I've literally gave you how our standards works, transcending time and space in the sense of higher plane of reality, with indication of superiority over said spacetime (not necessarily reality-fiction), is in fact enough to warrant Low 1-C rating.

Not when the statement were taken from 3-D perspective.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

I agree Super Forms should be at a possibly Low 1-C

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Not when the statement were taken from 3-D perspective.

Not when the spacetime itself is 4-dimensional manifold which the higher plane transcended.

 

[deonment]

for the people telling me that gl qualifies for high 1-C, i know that i was inly using it as a point that you dont need rf for tier 1

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Still waiting for Shrek and his homies to pop up

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Not when the spacetime itself is 4-dimensional manifold which the higher plane transcended.

Basic Space-Time is not 4-D, basic space-Time is 3-D + 1-D time, at least from what I heard.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Space-Time is not 4-D, Space-Time is 3-D + 1-D time, at least from what I heard.

My dear, 3D+1D is what the standard 4-dimensional manifold spacetime is, by intertwining 3-dimensional Euclidean space and 1-dimensional time.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Still waiting for Shrek and his homies to pop up

Right?