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Chainsaw Man discussion thread
- Thread starter Rez
- Start date
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That's the God Tiers, Top Tiers refer to this nonsense of mine:
Vote to replace it with "I just urinate and defecate a lot."should've kept the original quote you put in smh
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Ah, well, where'd you get the multipliers from?
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200 tons: Pochita Clone [100 tons] being pressured by Quanxi (Ch. 94, right after he wrecks Whip, Spear, and Reze) while she's only using one arm-bow vs. Santa lol'ing Quanxi spamming both arm-bows.
670.71 tons: Physical APs of Snake, Knife, Needle, Claw, Whip, Flamethrower, and Sword (7 * 81.53) and Bow (100) combined given Makima's statement.
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Uh, I'm not too sure I'm on board with them, even less that they would get accepted.
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Great, neither am I! Seems like we're just gonna have a lot of people scaling far above 100 tons.
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Off the new suit scaling?
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oh that totally reminded me. funny thing is, i think i mentioned somewhere last year that i wanted to do CRT on the anime's canonicity with the manga.
obviously i wasn't able to get to it but i still have the stuff that i was planning on using from going through the interviews.
Dec 13, 2020 - Fujimoto comments this after the release the the final volume and announcement of the Chainsaw Man production, signifying he's planning to get involved with the anime's production:
"Wait the studio that did Doreohedoro and JJK is doing the Dorohedoro and JJK knock Chainsaw Man?! What else is there to say?! I can't wait to work with them!"
Apr 21, 2021 - During an interview, Fujimoto comments on how he has talked with MAPPA but leaving it to them to handle the anime:
"I talked to the people handling the anime. I felt that they were people I could feel comfortable leaving things to, so I don't have any worries whatsoever. I love anime, but I don't have any experience in making it, so I am leaving it all to them."
Dec 22, 2021 - During Jump Festa 2022 (which actually took place in 2021 lol), both Fujimoto and Shihei Lin (his editor) pretty much expanded on Fuji's last comment on the anime; on how they want to let MAPPA create their own thing but still making sure the script & storyboard is consistent with the manga:
"We've actually checked the script. They are now working on a storyboard, I guess"
"Yes, we'll just let them know if it's inconsistent with the original story. We hope they could do their own Chainsaw Man"
"Yes, we checked the storyboards too"
Although, Fujimoto jokily comments: "I'm sorry, I haven't cooperated at all" when MAPPA mentions their involvement lol
July 4, 2022 - Makoto Kimura (MAPPA's Chainsaw Man Producer) during an interview at Anime Expo mentions that "the team is working closely with him" and how Fujimoto is "involved from the beginning including planning and casting and music. He is involved in everything".
Aug 7, 2022 - Makoto again mentions during an interview at Crunchyroll's Anime Expo that both Fujimoto and Shihei Lin are "working closely with every step from scenario to dubbing and animation" and that they "give advice on detailed nuances here and there". Also they're involved with the merchandise as well so that's neat ig.
Oct 10, 2022 - During a interview with Keisuke Seshimo (the animation producer), a question was asked about if Fujimoto ever gave him advice during production, Seshimo says:
"コミュニケーションを取るタイミングは随時あるのですが、中でも「自分の意思としては、良い映像が見たいということが1番大きい。そのためにできることは何でもやります。僕が何かの書類にハンコを押した方が良ければ、今この場でハンコを押します」とおっしゃられていたことが印象に残っています。おそらく冗談だとは思うのですが、すごく藤本先生らしい忖度のない意見だと思いました（笑）。それもあって各キャラクターのデザインやキャストを決める時、絵コンテのチェック、映像表現など、逐一、藤本先生から意見をいただくようにしています。"
Translates to:
"There are times when we communicate, but one thing that stuck in my mind was when he said, "My biggest wish is to see a good video. I'll do whatever I can to achieve that. If it's better for me to put my stamp on some document, I'll do it right now." I think he was probably joking, but I thought it was a very Fujimoto-like opinion with no consideration for others (laughs). That's why, when deciding on the design and cast of each character, checking the storyboard, visual expression, etc., I always ask for Fujimoto-sensei's opinion."
And when asked about what Fujimoto's reaction is to the production was:
"みなさんがイメージされているように多くは語られない方なので、細かい感想や要望が来ることはありません。ただ、アフレコや音響に立ち会うタイミングで完成途中の映像を確認される際、特にいい芝居や動きをしているキャラクターを見ると顔が緩む時があるんですよ。笑って楽しそうにしていて。それは現場の人間として嬉しくなります"
Translates to:
"As you might imagine, he's not a talkative person, so he doesn't give us detailed opinions or requests. However, when I'm present at the dubbing or sound sessions and he checks the footage in the middle of being completed, his face sometimes relaxes when he sees a character who is acting well or moving well. He's smiling and seems to be having fun. It makes me happy as someone on the set."
Oct 18, 2022 - On Shihei Lin's twitter, he essentially confirms how involved Fujimoto is with the entire production, overseeing basically everything:
"アニメ『#チェンソーマン』は企画・構成・脚本・絵コンテまで、全て藤本さんに見て頂いて、MAPPAさんのアニメチームと密に連絡を取って打合せし続けてきました。"
Translates to:
"Fujimoto has overseen the planning, composition, script, and storyboarding of the anime "Chainsaw Man" and has been in close contact with MAPPA's animation team to continue holding meetings."
So yeah, Fujimoto has been heavily involved with the anime's production if it wasn't clear already.
Nov 13, 2022 - As a bonus, during a interview with Ryu Nakayama (the director) and Keisuke Seshimo, when asked about what they were particularly playing attention to when creating the anime, Nakayama says:
"原作の雰囲気を壊さないように、リスペクトを持って制作に当たることを前提に、“映画好き”という藤本タツキ先生との共通点を足がかりにしながら、実写的な画面をつくっていきたいと考えています。デフォルメを減らし、安易に“アニメっぽさ”にいかない。映像としてどう見せたいかに重きを置いています"
Translates to:
"As long as we don't destroy the atmosphere of the original work, we will work with respect, and using our common ground with Tatsuki Fujimoto, who is a movie lover, as a starting point, we want to create a realistic screen. We want to reduce deformation and not go for an easy "anime-like" look. We place emphasis on how we want to present the visuals."
Essentially this corroborates with what Fujimoto was talking about earlier with how he wanted MAPPA to do it's own thing but also not mess up with his original story.
now granted this is only about season 1 of course, but i have no doubts that fujimoto probably is as similarly involved in the creation of the upcoming movie seeing how involved he was with season 1
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This message provides the permission to calc an Aki bullet dodging feat that was marked as non-cannon for a while since it was in the anime. Great people share great news.
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I also forgot to mention that we also get to add Makima's unnamed bio hax in the anime which she can use through the perspective of her minions.
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Pretty sure she could always use hax through the eyes of minions, hence why there were loads of panels of birds over while she was using the Hydraulic Press Devil.
From what I can tell, it's anywhere from Mach 0.3 to Mach 1 depending on if the calc assumes the camera POV is the bullet and when to angsize.
Also, congrats because your 8-A branrot has infected me. When Makima rips out the Pochita-heart, I might just be going crazy, but it looks like she damages it a bit, which makes me wonder if she could scale to its durability. (511.79 tons of TNT)
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Keeps scaling consistent to the very least.
But never through other humans, rather lower life forms, I thought. But your right.
Not brainrot my friend... you have just simply been enlightened. And yes, that might be a suitable way to get Makima at 8-A. That's if it's not a ls feat?
Edit: Pochita might as well be as strong as his heart though, right?
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Further proof Kishibe was just HIM.
The initial tearing out is LS, but Makima snapping it off after Pochita spits on her is AP- ripping off some dangly bits despite how said dangly bits were totally fine re-entering the friggin' stratosphere..
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Zabazab
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Even considering absurdly effective piercing damage (Cough, cough, spears, cough, cough), bullets still don't make sense in Chainsaw Man.
Bullets bounce off Denji's headsaw, Katana Man's Quick Draw can destroy Denji's headsaw, Katana Man's Quick Draw can't do shit against PS Uniforms, and yet bullets can pierce PS Uniforms.
Gunshots can also draw blood from Quanxi and go straight through Makima, yet Long's forearm can meat-shield not one, but two shots.
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Long story short, fujimoto didn't put much thought in it, so neither should we. We can deal with the basics.
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...Oh f*ck you're right. Makima tanking Pochita's fear would also weaken his heart, so Pochita Clone's heart wouldn't scale to Awakened Pochita's heart throw.
DAMMIT.
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I'm not crazy I swear I'm this
close to figuring out a logical argument for Pochita's heart not being affected by Fear Scaling given how everyone wanted the Chainsaw Man heart despite thinking Chainsaw Man was weaker, I swear Fami backs this up, you gotta believe me I'm this close to being able to upscale Makima to 550 tons / Multi-City Block level+, Gunshy what have you done to my brain?
Zabazab
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If I had a nickel for every series on Jump+ that had a blonde 16 year old with angelic theming, who was horrifically abused by his his father & the adults around him, and was manipulated through romance by a red-haired demon masquerading as human for the sake of his downfall, and also people get sent to hell bc lol, I'd have two nickels.
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Ah, so you hear them too? The whispers of fate, the riddle of your mind echoing with undeniable truth...8-A Chainsaw Man must happen. This isn’t just a coincidence my friend. No, this is destiny pounding on the door, demanding to be let in!I'm not crazy I swear I'm this
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Where's the second nickel from?
Zabazab
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Make the Exorcist Fall in Love!!!
READ IT ON JUMP+
IT'S THE BEST ONGOING SHOUNEN ATM!!!
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Man, it's been long since I read that. Peak tbh
Zabazab
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Many are saying this! The Sloth arc (part 5) just ended too, fantastic end to the arc.
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You have reawakened a calculating evil in me I haven't felt in years. This is not a joke, you will soon bear witness to my power.
In completely unrelated news! This isn't anime only, it's implied in the Manga when Aki confronts Sawatari in Ch. 34 where she mysteriously gets a nosebleed out of nowhere.
Zabazab
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Presumed it was contract stuff tbh
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Allow me to bear witness to it all! every joule, every ton, all in the glorious name of 8-A Chainsaw Man!
Nice catch. Fujimoto always leaves the smallest details for Chainsaw Man fans to figure out on their deathbeds as they randomly reminisce about a panel in their fading minds.
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Watch my country level Chainsaw man using drag force, y'all haven't seen all of it yet.
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...I'd like to elaborate on something I said a while back but never went into detail on.
I don't think calcs are bullshit. I know calcs are bullshit. Because I'm practically a professional calc bullshitter... or I used to be, at least.
Oh? What's calc bullshitting? Well it's not making calcs with bad math, physics or measurements. It's not using fake scans or taking things out of context. No, Calcing vs. Calc Bullshitting is like the difference between engaging in science vs. pseudo-science. In one you gather data to arrive at a conclusion, while in another you have a conclusion you want to reach, so you force the data to support it. In calculations, this means starting a calc with the value you want to reach, and measuring a feat in such a way that you get that value.
Wait a minute! You may think. Didn't you just say that Bullshitting wasn't mismeasuring? Well I did! The thing is, artists aren't robots, which means sizes aren't going to be perfectly consistent, which means that there's wiggle room in what size you can get an object to without doing any weird pixel measurements. There's uncertainty to most sizes in fiction.
And you know what's even better? Uncertainties compound uncertainties! Since most objects calc'd are 3D, the linear range of acceptable sizes gets cubed in the process. And for kinetic energy, you're multiplying the mass (derived from 3D Volume) by speed (derived from linear distance) squared, meaning the range is now boosted to the fifth power! If you're ever wondering why most Verse's Kinetic Energy feats outdo their Volumetric Destruction feats, this is why.
Any calc maker worth their salt should be able to squeeze out an AP at least two orders of magnitude above what would be normal if you weren't given a timeframe.
Now, I've had this sentiment in the past, but I've learned since then. The truth is that Volume Destruction is almost as bullshit. The Destruction Values use the maximum pressure in MPA it takes to deform a material before it rips, despite how pressure required to stretch/compress works like a spring, as in it grows as distance deformed increases. But this is ignored as the wiki re-arranges the dimensions of MPA to get joules per cubic centimeter. MegaPascal = 10^6 Newton / meter^2 = 10^6 Newton * meter / meter^3 = 10^6 joules / meter^3 = 10^6 joules / 10^6 centimeter^3 = joules / centimeters^3).
This of course ignores how (joules = newton-meters) only works when the force required (newtons) to compress/expand a distance IS CONSTANT, like for Ideal Gases. As mentioned above, the force in breaking materials is not constant. By using the maximum force something can take before the material breaks and applying it from the jump, this massively overestimates the energy required to break stuff.
And they know this. Someone pointed out how the energy required to break rocks to micron-sized particles was only 16 joules per cubic centimeter, or 13 times lower than our pulverization value, the energy "required" to turn rocks to sand. But we're in too deep. Staff can barely even talk about fixing angsizing with how it affects over 1,000 calculations. Our foundations are shit and the building's too heavy now to fix the cracks.
Everything is wanked so nothing is wanked. I can Bullshit as many calcs as I want and not feel any remorse, because even if I did it the "normal" way, those results would be bullshit too. And so the only thing I should care about is what values feel right to me. And so that's what I did.
Have a look at my cleverly masked insanity.
The main thing that should stick out is the slow increase in values. I wanted a symmetrical, gradual scaling chain. 3 one-megajoules, 3 two-megajoules, 3-three megajoules, and it's a similar story with the tens. 4 ten-megajoules, 3 twenty-megajoules including the upscale, 3 thirty-megajoules, and even 3-forty megajoules.
It's worth pointing out that none of these are supporting calcs. They all scale to someone, although not all of those someones have a profile. Speaking of characters- taking a look at Suchan, an interesting pattern becomes apparent.
Hare Coursing is always about 2x as strong as his normal output, and Hunting Rifle is always about 2x as strong as that. The numbers turned out that way for Eyewear Suchan by coincidence, and I like it enough that I made sure it'd stick for his other keys.
Dohwa's got more blatant OCD-
The values 40%, 50%, and 70% Dohwa scale to are roughly 4/10ths, 5/10ths, and 7/10ths of 70.
Huijin's is sneakier, and also ties back to Suchan.
Lab Gear Suchan and Black Thorns Huijin both have combat knuckles, so they're both about 3.5x stronger than before. (12.41/3.54 and 11.64/3.31). In addition, Post-Midterms Huijin is about 10x stronger than Pre-Midterms Huijin. That's because she properly accessed her Complex of a swarm of 1,000 cockroaches, and the cube-root of 1,000 is 10.
Not much to say here besides that there's again a gradually increasing scale.
000s have 5, 100s have 4, 200s have 4, 300s have 2, 400s have 2, then 500, 600, and 1200 are at 1 each.
Also, a shadow of Suchan's KE AP can be found here. Hare Coursing is always around root(2) times faster than his normal speed, and Hunting Rifle always around root(2) times faster than Hare Coursing.
This is probably the best example of Symmetry, with each level having 2 calcs each. (Ignore the upscaling at the bottom...)
What the above is, without exaggeration, collective days of my life spent measuring and remeasuring scenes until I could make it give me the nice numbers that I wanted. I want to reiterate that- at least at the time that I made them- there is nothing actually wrong with the calcs. I never lied about my measurements or hid calculations. I followed all the rules, and calc'ed every scene correctly. But every scene has a million correct calcs in it, I just picked the ones I wanted.
Alas, this hype-train hyperfixation was strained when Jungle Juice went on a year long hiatus, and killed when Season 2 was aggressively Mid. And so the calculating evil within me went to sleep...
Until you woke it up again. You opened the coffin-door and let that absolute time-vampire of mine out again. You utter fool.
You wanna know why I supported the low-ends of the ReCalcs I made? Why I used 80% Hollowness instead of 90%? Why I wanted Bat's Calc to be V. Frag instead of Pulverization? It was never about lowballing, it was never about being realistic and grounded. It was about the symmetry.
Notice how each link is roughly an order of magnitude higher than the last? It's nice, isn't it?
This is why I got rid of the upscale from 9.14 to 11 tons- it wasn't about how tough PS Uniforms actually are, it wasn't getting Barem to 8-B+, it wasn't about Fumiko's indestructible midriff!
It was because the jump from 9.14 to 11 tons was too small. And it broke. The Symmetry.
But no more. I patched that, the Scaling Chain is beautiful again, and better yet...
I've got next link ready.
Here's your damn 8-A. Snake Devil at 436.94 tons- only 1.259x away from 550 tons, just close enough to 8-A+ for Makima to upscale, what a nice coincidence.
I hope you can rest easy now. I know I can.
/j.
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I mean from all the fancalcs I've seen with Island level Sukuna due to wanked explosion size and City level Jogo with wanked meteor speed because the meteor was burning therefore it's going at 8000m/s (which is instantly invalid due to Mach 3 statement and 2 fodders dodging it moments before impact). What do I say? People can just slip in a lil bit of headcanon and bullshitlery and everyone's mom and dad scales to mountain level! We can get consistently building block/town level character be island or country level and characters that destroyed an actual island be at city level or some shit. Sometimes I see shit like "oh it says instant so I'm gonna just take 0.0000001s as the timeframe, totally not wanked!" And man, I've seen the dudes who made those calcs acting so freaking serious about how right their calcs was, oh boy, reminding me of how much powerscaling can rot your brain, people do like them imaginary numbers going up!
So I ain't care if anyone's fav character has their mountain level calcs or something, if they ain't having visual feats and statements to back em up, then I'm gonna make sure they be where they are meant to be. Ain't having city block level fodders to be city level.
At least these things are better and more fun than dealing with Outerversal or boundless characters.
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Anyways, here's Gun Devil bullet KE calc based on bullet weight in here, and bullet speed. I think we should be clear how strong each of 20% Gun Devil bullets is instead of stucking it's ramming KE in and call it a day. Dunno if anyone has done this, but eh. Also don't know why but bullet mass was actually scaled up from the bullet's head itself but not the whole cartridge, maybe I'm wrong but eh, I did my research, so I'll be taking that as the bullet head's mass.
(1/2)x616.5x(477000)^2 = 69.871 TJ (Town level)
That's quite expected eh? Don't think bullet size gonna be bigger at 100%, but idk about the speed though.
Also, is Yoru's profile looking good enough yet? Are we fixing anything or is it good to go?
(1/2)x616.5x(477000)^2 = 69.871 TJ (Town level)
That's quite expected eh? Don't think bullet size gonna be bigger at 100%, but idk about the speed though.
Also, is Yoru's profile looking good enough yet? Are we fixing anything or is it good to go?
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whole wiki held up by vibes and OCD i fear
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The most beautiful backstory essay I’ve read in a while
. It’s funny how everything works out, as long as you know how to do it properly in every way. You can choose the numbers you want, and we believe in an even number which is essentially very pleasing to the eye. If this goes through, don’t worry about me. I’ll be resting just fine and I’ll be seeing that beautifully perfect number on one of our profiles, just sitting there numerically. Have you ever thought of something that perfect? Have you ever felt your neck itch for alphanumeric code? Just one that looks so good that you desire it? You just stop carring about other calcs just to achieve it? That's what your feeling my friend. And I'm glad you've decided to come to terms with it.
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Did I cook guys?
vsbattles.fandom.com
Would you look at that, small city level bullet for the Gun on it's head! Low 7-B Gun Devil is more real than ever guys!
Gun Devil Bullet KE
vsbattles.fandom.com
Would you look at that, small city level bullet for the Gun on it's head! Low 7-B Gun Devil is more real than ever guys!
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Following up from last night, Snake is a convenient devil to reference because its weird devil ability (stealing other contracts) has little to do with its physical strength.
Snake's also scary enough that Ghost deadass refused to come out near Katana Man because Akane was contracted to it, and snakes are a super-duper common phobia IRL. (Indiana Jones is in fits rn)
So basically only Makima and Makima-adjacent-folk can scale (heh) to/above Snake.
(Also I think Punishment is big enough that Snake carrying it counts as Class M Lifting Strength, but I'll look at that later.)
It's odd because while the headgun on Aki-47 fires bigger bullets, or at least has huge AoE, the Gun Devil's headgun doesn't ever fire. Meanwhile its arm-aments somehow fire normal sized bullets that just travel really fast.Also I'm not sure if Gun Powder ratio works considering devils run on blood.Did I cook guys?
Gun Devil Bullet KE
Would you look at that, small city level bullet for the Gun on it's head! Low 7-B Gun Devil is more real than ever guys!
So the premise gets a solid "Ehhhh..." from me.
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Zabazab
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Unfortunately this breaks KE rules. We see the a Gun Devil bullet make like an at-best High 8-C crater in chapter 76 which kills using KE.Did I cook guys?
Gun Devil Bullet KE
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Eh, maybe it's just a dream after all.
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