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Chainsaw Man discussion thread

For the Chainsaw kick calc, I have a few nitpicks that could potentially increase the overall energy of the feat, making it much more impressive. Given the pulverization of the buildings shown in the panel and the outward dispersion of debris, violent fragmentation should (probably) be the most suitable assumption for energy density. It shows the energy needed to break concrete into fine particles, which is consistent with the shown destruction in the panel. The larger debris we see could represent the outer layers of the buildings that are damaged as collateral, while the parts Pochita actually kicks through are shown to be completely pulverized.
The debris isn't really smaller, it's just that everything is smaller since the POV is very zoomed out in order to get several buildings into the shot. Comparing the bits to the buildings, they're comparable to other building destruction feats's rubble.

Or in other words, a lot of the rubble isn't invisible because it's too small, it's invisible because the camera's like a football field away.

More importantly, I like that destroying a building is now Large Building level, and destroying multiple large buildings is City Block level. It just feels better.
Plus, including the kinetic energy due to the outward motion of the debris, factoring in the speed of the kick, could buff the calc. It might yield 8-A results (or not), but these are break neat to note.
But Kinetic Energy bad, Volume Destruction good. That actually reminds me, considering how Human Quanxi's canonically supersonic, wouldn't Pochita dropkicking her Hybrid Form like 500 meters down the city (and then decapitating her) before she responds be like, at least Mach 500?
 
The debris isn't really smaller, it's just that everything is smaller since the POV is very zoomed out in order to get several buildings into the shot. Comparing the bits to the buildings, they're comparable to other building destruction feats's rubble.

Or in other words, a lot of the rubble isn't invisible because it's too small, it's invisible because the camera's like a football field away.

More importantly, I like that destroying a building is now Large Building level, and destroying multiple large buildings is City Block level. It just feels better.
I mean, we do get a close up inside the final building where he makes his halt, and since he's halting his movements, the energy of his movements also decreases. However, it still generates a lot of rubble nonetheless, most of it being moderately tiny (basically a mix of basic and violent fragmentation in different areas of the building, despite the halt of his attack). So, I’d say it’s reasonable to assume vf for the overall calc.

Also, I’ve been pushing for the 8-A Hybrid agenda because the number would look cool on their profiles.
But Kinetic Energy bad, Volume Destruction good. That actually reminds me, considering how Human Quanxi's canonically supersonic, wouldn't Pochita dropkicking her Hybrid Form like 500 meters down the city (and then decapitating her) before she responds be like, at least Mach 500?
I asked a friend about it, however, we can't really prove that Quanxi has supersonic perception speed.
 
I mean, we do get a close up inside the final building where he makes his halt, and since he's halting his movements, the energy of his movements also decreases. However, it still generates a lot of rubble nonetheless, most of it being moderately tiny (basically a mix of basic and violent fragmentation in different areas of the building, despite the halt of his attack). So, I’d say it’s reasonable to assume vf for the overall calc.

Also, I’ve been pushing for the 8-A Hybrid agenda because the number would look cool on their profiles.
Honestly fair, however-

The way I see it, either Bat's Sonic AP is Pulverization and Fox's Chomp and Pochita's Dropkick is V. Frag, meaning the scale's:
8-C -> High 8-C+ -> 8-B+ -> Baseline 8-A -> 8-A -> 8-A+
-or Bat's Sonic AP is V. Frag and Fox's Chomp and Pochita's Dropkick is Frag, meaning the scale's:
9-A -> 8-C -> High 8-C+ -> 8-B -> 8-B+ -> 8-A
And the latter just lines up better with the typical destruction we see in the story. Heck, Reze's biggest explosions are only 9-A+, assuming the Movie doesn't buff her.

(Also, the Wiki's current method of Volume Destruction calcing is fundamentally wanked anyway, so lower is generally better. Still better than K.E. though)
I asked a friend about it, however, we can't really prove that Quanxi has supersonic perception speed.
...Isn't Quanxi being able to see where she's going enough for that?
 
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And the latter just lines up better with the typical destruction we see in the story. Heck, Reze's biggest explosions are only 9-A+, assuming the Movie doesn't buff her.
The thing with Reze is—she's pretty weak, the weakest out of the majority of hybrids. This is mainly because something that contributes to the imagery of her concept (nuclear weapons) doesn't exist anymore. As a result, the imagery tied to the concept of bombs is now limited to everything else, like C4, rocket launchers, landmines, grenades, and maybe airstrikes. You get the gist.

Since nothing correlating with the concept of bombs (without nuclear weapons) has potency beyond 8-A, Reze can't either. Even so, she's still weaker than her Awakened Devil counterpart. However, her explosions are still noteworthy, and the potency of her attacks is even more so. I don't see her attacks being weak as a way to place her lower on the AP spectrum, but rather as a function of the plot itself. Eventually (or at least what I believe Fujimoto is implying), the Nuclear Weapons Devil will return, and it will probably affect Reze in some way.
...Isn't Quanxi being able to see where she's going enough for that?
That's moreso a matter of reaction, not perception.
 
The thing with Reze is—she's pretty weak, the weakest out of the majority of hybrids.
She's stronger than Katana Man, Denji, and Whip given Public Safety Uniform damage, placing her in the middle at worst.
This is mainly because something that contributes to the imagery of her concept (nuclear weapons) doesn't exist anymore. As a result, the imagery tied to the concept of bombs is now limited to everything else, like C4, rocket launchers, landmines, grenades, and maybe airstrikes. You get the gist.
I was gonna bring up how terrible the affects of airstrikes were, but then I remembered how WWII, Vietnam, etc... no longer happened. Minefields and C4 are still a problem though, but fair enough.
Since nothing correlating with the concept of bombs (without nuclear weapons) has potency beyond 8-A, Reze can't either. Even so, she's still weaker than her Awakened Devil counterpart.
Fear Empowerment doesn't work that way (Falling from terminal velocity isn't 7-C) but I digress.

I was also about to argue that just because Denji is weaker than Pochita doesn't mean that logic holds for every Hybrid, honestly that would make sense even if canon doesn't confirm it.

Kinda weird why Quanxi's so strong, but then again people would carry crossbows more since they can't own guns in Chainsaw Man.
However, her explosions are still noteworthy, and the potency of her attacks is even more so. I don't see her attacks being weak as a way to place her lower on the AP spectrum, but rather as a function of the plot itself. Eventually (or at least what I believe Fujimoto is implying), the Nuclear Weapons Devil will return, and it will probably affect Reze in some way.
...Would that make Yoru her half-mom? Because while bombs weren't specifically invented for war, nuclear bombs absolutely were.
That's moreso a matter of reaction, not perception.
Reactions are Perception (thought) + A Single Movement, the first includes the second.

Getting a reaction timeframe from even canon movement speed requires a calculation, and is thus unfortunately considered calc stacking.
On one hand, I get it, but on the other hand I still think that's weird.
 
Speaking of the Weapon Devils- behold the Katana Dragon in all of its nonexistent glory:

"This is a contract, I'll be your arm, in exchange, show me how you're a little pissy baby boy."
 
.
She's stronger than Katana Man, Denji, and Whip given Public Safety Uniform damage, placing her in the middle at worst.
She only gets that high because she pretty much mastered her abilities. However, she would lose to Part 2 Denji (Post-Fear Boost). However that sounds like a vs match idea more than thread banter.
 
Alright, V. Frag end's been added, although whether that'll be accepted depends on who evaluates it. Is there a way to make a blog editable by multiple people so I don't have total control over the scaling list?
Power Crushes Cucumber: 6.72 kg of TNT
  • Initial Power (Duh)
  • Post-Training Power (At least)
  • Initial Denji (Fights with Power)
  • Post-Training Denji (At least, same goes for Weakened and Current, since Fear Scaling shouldn't affect his human form)
  • Aki (Fights with Power)
  • Himeno, Kobeni, etc... (Should be comparable to Aki)
  • Akane Sawatari (Former Devil Hunter)
  • Pingtsi, Long, Cosmo, Tsugihagi (Are fiends)
  • Fiend Beam (Is a fiend)
  • Zombies under Akane (Are basically devils, got wrecked by Post-Training Power)
  • Dolls under Pre-Darknesss Santa (Can be killed by Post-Training Power and Denji, and Fox Devil's Paw, and Masked Violence)
  • Human Reze (At least, wrecked Post-Training Denji, later snapped his neck)
Fox Chomps Restaurant: 55.50 / 339.69 kg of TNT
  • Aki w/ Fox (Duh)
  • Devil Form Beam (Should be semi-comparable to Fox)
  • Masked Violence (At the very least; Reze took him seriously, while she was totally unfazed by Fox biting her, better than Devil Form Beam who got one-shot)
  • Princi / Spider Devil (Bare minimum as a full on devil in the Special Division)
Hybrid Denji's Durability: 807 kg / 8.04 tons of TNT
  • Initial Hybrid Denji (Duh)
  • Bat Devil (At most, weaker but comparable to Initial Denji's physicals)
  • Initial Hybrid Denji's Piercing Damage (Much higher, shredded Bat)
  • Himeno's Ghost Arm (Harmed Eternity w/ Gun Flesh, who can hurt Hybrid Denji)
  • Cockroach Devil (At least, flattened Bat by falling him)
  • Post-Weakening Hybrid Denji (At least, knocked around Cockroach)
  • Post-Weakening Hybrid Denji's Piercing Damage (Much higher, shredded Cockroach)
  • Princi / Spider Devil (At least, should be comparable to Cockroach via Fear Scaling, I Will Die On This Hill)
  • Angel Devil (At least, the strongest Division 4 Agent besides Kishibe, putting him above Himeno w/ Ghost Arm, blocked a hit from Quanxi w/ Aki, but was knocked out doing so)
  • Kishibe (At least, stronger than Angel)
  • Yoshida (At least, stronger than Kishibe, did much better against Quanxi than Angel)
Bat Devil's Sonic Attack: 9.14 / 91.14 tons of TNT
  • Post-Training Denji (Fought Katana Man)
  • Post-Training Denji's Piercing Damage (Much higher, bisected Katana Man when he ran into his legsaw, cut off Reze's leg, cut off Daytime Santa's arms)
  • Katana Man (Damaged Ghost, can match Denji, was exhausted in their previous clash when he was weaker)
  • Katana Man's Piercing Damage (Much higher, can chop off Post-Training Denji's limbs)
  • Ghost Devil (Fearscales above Bat)
  • Aki's Curse Sword (Can hurt Katana Man)
  • Aki's Angel Katana (At least, can disarm the Ghost Devil and Hybrid Reze)
  • Hybrid Reze's Physicals (At least as strong as Post-Training Hybrid Denji)
  • Miri Sugo (Shown as comparable to Katana Man at the Graveyard)
  • Whip Woman & Spear Man's physicals (Should scale because Katana Man's a loser)
  • Yoshida w/ Octopus (At least, can destroy loads of dolls, which can hurt Post-Training Hybrid Denji)
  • Daytime Santa (Bonked Post-Training Hybrid Denji, got wrecked by Hybrid Quanxi)
  • Dolls under Post-Darkness Santa (Can harm Post-Training Hybrid Denji)
  • Blood Devil Power's Physicals (Pochita told her she'd come back as a powerful Devil, putting her at least above Bat)
  • Zombies under Makima (Harmed Blood Devil Power, slowed down Pochita Clone as a mob)
  • Princi / Spider Devil (Possibly, should scale above a Makima-contracted Mantis Devil, which could harm Blood Devil Power)
Upscaling: 11 / 100 tons of TNT
  • Kobeni w/ Knife (Can pierce through Public Safety Uniforms, which can withstand Quick Draw's Piercing Damage)
  • Akane w/ Snake Devil (One-shot the Ghost Devil)
  • Hybrid Reze's Explosions (Blew off Nomo's arm through his uniform, destroyed Denji's chainsaws)
  • Unmasked Violence (At least, shredded his uniform just by transforming)
  • Kishibe w/ Knives (Contracts described as fearsome by Pingtsi, offscreened Post-Training Hybrid Denji, Knife Devil should be here just by Fear Scaling)
  • Human Quanxi (At least, LOL-stomped other Hybrids, caught Kishibe's Knife)
  • Post-Chainsaw Man Church Yoru (Cut out of Octopus, took a kick from Quanxi, lost an exchange but was missing an arm to be fair)
  • Princi / Spider Devil (Possibly, should be comparable to the Centipede Devil, which could pierce an amped Pochita's guts-scarf, while Hybrid Reze couldn't scratch regular Pochita's scarf w/ explosions)
Hybrid Quanxi Takes Dropkick: 81.53 / 498.96 tons of TNT
  • Hybrid Quanxi (Duh)
  • Pochita Clone (Got a double KO w/ Hybrid Quanxi)
  • Hybrid Quanxi's Piercing Damage (At least, far higher than her physicals)
  • Pochita Clone's Piercing Damage (At least, far higher than his physicals)
  • Unmasked Violence (Possibly, only character besides Makima Darkness used the sword against, although he didn't do as well as Makima)
Upscaling: 100 / 550 tons of TNT
  • Makima (Literally punched off Chainsaw Man's limbs, breaking his saws on one occasion)
  • Blood Devil Power's Blood Manipulation (Harmed Makima)
  • Denji w/ Power Saw (Harmed Makima)
  • Nighttime Santa (Caught and snapped Hybrid Quanxi's arrows, flyswatted Post-Training Hybrid Denji, thought she had the power to kill Makima)
  • Angel w/ Millenium Spear (At least, wrecked Weakened Pochita)
  • Dance-Dance Revolution Kobeni (At least, obviously Makima thought she was dangerous enough to justify using the Lance of Longinus against)
  • Prime Kishibe (At least, as Angel's the strongest agent next to him, obviously Kishibe at his best must beat Angel at his best, therefore he scales. Pochita killed Makima to save her and Japan's Populace from Kishibe, as he was about to kill her 126.1 million times)
Mt. Elbrus Eruption Percentage Math: 25.63 kilotons of TNT
  • 20% Gun Devil (35.8893/28 * 20 = 25.63 kilotons)
  • Makima's Finger Gun (Implied to be a result of her beating the 20% Gun Devil, sent Pochita into space)
  • Part 1 Pochita (Took four bangs with only minimal damage)
  • Spear Man's Spears (Pierced straight through Pochita)
Mt. Elbrus Eruption Percentage Math/100% Gun Devil KE: 128.18 kilotons / 15.94 megatons of TNT
  • 100% Gun Devil (35.8893/28 * 100 = 128.18 / Kinetic energy is this level, although just traveling at this speed caused 37% of its body to shear off in the process, meaning it's unlikely it would survive attacking an opponent this way. Also, the Gun Devil does not fight by ramming)
  • Part 2 Pochita (Fear Scaling)
  • Post-Chainsaw Man Church Yoru w/ Call to Arms (Wrecked Part 2 Pochita)
Gun Goddess's Bullets: 166.47 megatons of TNT
  • Post-Chainsaw Man Church Yoru w/ Gun Goddess (Duh)
  • Primal Fears (At least)
  • Princi / Spider Devil (At least by Fear Scaling, RIGHT HAND OF MAKIMA PRINCI AGENDA LETSGOOOOOO!)
 
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