Gilad_Hyperstar
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I disagree with it. In Dragon Ball where characters can punch, block and physically push back ki attacks all the time, it's very obvious it scales to physical stats
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Didn't you want me to prove Ki being UES, because if Ki isn't UES, assume that what you currently thinking, then most feat isn't scale to their physical stats either, Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta with a Ki Ball, Cell with his Kamehameha, Buu his Ki attack, Vegeta with his Galick Gun. Punchs and Kicks in DBZ is.......at best, mountain levelWhen did I ever say they don't have Planet level stats without Ki blasts?
Yet again the thing is, despite the claim that ki beam > their usual stats, which i can understand, especially in Raditz Saga where we have power level to measure, in later saga however, despite such claim we still see they constantly perform ki beam, which require user constantly release their ki to keep the beam going on for beam struggling. We know that the ampunt of Ki one have = their physical power, if they can constantly release such amount of ki outward to keep the beam struggling going on, that mean they can well have the same amount of ki equal to the power of the beam itself, which in turn scale to their physical stats since their body can release such amount of kiAnd all I'm saying is that Ki beam is portrayed as being above their usual stats.
The OP of the thread clearly isn't proposing that be removed.I disagree with it. In Dragon Ball where characters can punch, block and physically push back ki attacks all the time, it's very obvious it scales to physical stats
We didn't abusing, it literally what basic requirement for UES is being able to boost physical stats, assume otherwise mean completely destroy the premise and narrative of the verse, which mean assuming that Ki can't boost physical statsY'all abuse the **** out of this UES shit
They can cover their bodies with ki, yeah. They can still have stronger attacks that use ki. By pouring MORE ki into them, which is blatantly what Cell is doing
Then why wouldn't they scale to their own attacks? Cell would be 4-B also for breaking Gohan's arm with a ki blast then, and he would have no reason to not scale to the Solar Kamehameha, and the same applies to GohanThe OP of the thread clearly isn't proposing that be removed.
Do you realize how contradictory that sounds?Then why wouldn't they scale to their own attacks? Cell would be 4-B also for breaking Gohan's arm with a ki blast then, and he would have no reason to not scale to the Solar Kamehameha, and the same applies to Gohan
The premise either doesn't make any logical sense, or that it really does wants to separate ki attacks from physicals even if you say it doesn't
And that's the problem with it. He should have been that high but noone gave any input on that.Roshi doesn't scale to the MAX Kamehameha, don't see why Cell and Gohan would
Because Cell and Gohan directly pushed back against each others' Kamehamehas? And also Roshi not scaling is also stupid. Either they all scale to their ki attack or none of them doRoshi doesn't scale to the MAX Kamehameha, don't see why Cell and Gohan would
How about, they should only scale if they have evidence for scaling? Or is that too radical?Because Cell and Gohan directly pushed back against each others' Kamehamehas? And also Roshi not scaling is also stupid. Either they all scale to their ki attack or none of them do
Yeah that's my case also Vegeta eating a kaioken kamehameha and a galick gun to the face and still surviving without too much issue.Because Cell and Gohan directly pushed back against each others' Kamehamehas? And also Roshi not scaling is also stupid. Either they all scale to their ki attack or none of them do
Okay? Gohan and Cell's Kamehameha would scale to each other, still doesn't mean their base powers wouldBecause Cell and Gohan directly pushed back against each others' Kamehamehas?
Yeah, it is because it's consistently shown in the series they scale to their own ki attacks, and even in Gohan and Cell's case, they directly pushed against each other with their attacksOr is that too radical?
Also the fact that multiple times the release of energy changed means that they still introduced more ki midway.Yeah, it is because it's consistently shown in the series they scale to their own ki attacks, and even in Gohan and Cell's case, they directly pushed against each other with their attacks
They pushed back against each other... with their Kamehameha's.... That's part of what is being proposed.Yeah, it is because it's consistently shown in the series they scale to their own ki attacks, and even in Gohan and Cell's case, they directly pushed against each other with their attacks
Do you think Vegeta scales to his Final Flash too? The Final Flash that blew a hole through a Perfect Cell who Vegeta was completely inferior to?We didn't abusing, it literally what basic requirement for UES is being able to boost physical stats, assume otherwise mean completely destroy the premise and narrative of the verse, which mean assuming that Ki can't boost physical stats
That attack isn't even put at Solar System level on this website...?Do you think Vegeta scales to his Final Flash too? The Final Flash that blew a hole through a Perfect Cell who Vegeta was completely inferior to?
Cell was literally underestimating Vegeta's Final Flash and barely even tried to defend himself, only realizing in the last second he should try and dodgeDo you think Vegeta scales to his Final Flash too? The Final Flash that blew a hole through a Perfect Cell who Vegeta was completely inferior to?
Not sure how that changes anything.Cell was literally underestimating Vegeta's Final Flash and barely even tried to defend himself, only realizing in the last second he should try and dodge
That Cell wasn't 4-BThat attack isn't even put at Solar System level on this website...?
It was pre Zenkai cell.That attack isn't even put at Solar System level on this website...?
I realized this after making the post, but to be fair the person said Perfect Cell so I assumed I had misremembered that attack Vegeta did on Perfect Cell since it's been a hot minute since I've seen the Cell Saga.That Cell wasn't 4-B
Because Cell wasn't taking it seriously and Vegeta was putting as much Ki as Saiyanly possible? We have the Goku vs Vegeta fight shy is that even a question? Was Vegeta not using his all there? He should have died instantly using the logic suggested here.Not sure how that changes anything.
It damaged somebody that was far above Vegeta's physicals.
Dragon Ball characters go down in durability significantly when caught off guard or they don't attempt to defend themselves. Vegeta could be damaged by Krillin in the Namek Saga using this same principal.Not sure how that changes anything.
It damaged somebody that was far above Vegeta's physicals.
Except, again, Cell was clearly caught off guard. If Cell was actually trying to defend himself the Final Flash probably wouldn't have damaged him.Yes. Putting in more ki, which made stronger than he was physically.
The same thing Cell was doing with the Kamehameha
He wasn't off-guard. He was watching Vegeta charge it.Dragon Ball characters go down in durability significantly when caught off guard or they don't attempt to defend themselves. Vegeta could be damaged by Krillin in the Namek Saga using this same principal.
It made him stronger than what he was physically using less ki...Yes. Putting in more ki, which made stronger than he was physically.
The same thing Cell was doing with the Kamehameha
It kinda is. He was caught off-guard by how strong it was and wasn't able to defend himself accordingly.He wasn't off-guard. He was watching Vegeta charge it.
Recognizing that it was dangerous at the last minute isn't the same as being caught off-guard.
He literally has regeneration. He didn't give a shit about it.He wasn't off-guard. He was watching Vegeta charge it.
Recognizing that it was dangerous at the last minute isn't the same as being caught off-guard.
We both know this is completely false. Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of your points, but Cell did have something of an "Oh shit" moment. But if anything, this is more proof the attack was stronger than he thought it was, proving more he was caught off guard.He literally has regeneration. He didn't give a shit about it.
He had an oh shit moment because he didn't believe the beam would be that high. But was he actually anxious? Given he can regenerate from even his self destruction I don't think so. I don't remember if he knew how powerful his regen is though.We both know this is completely false. Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of your points, but Cell did have something of an "Oh shit" moment.
Well yeah. Final Flash is stronger than Vegeta's physicals, that much is obvious. But it's not so much stronger that Vegeta's physicals can't downscale.Bruh.
He didn't defend himself against Vegeta's normal attacks either, yet those didn't do anything to him.
Yes... because none was charged with more ki. I don't understand what you are trying so say though. Can their defence scale to their best attack? Yes yes it can. Are they always at that state of ki defence? No they are not. Someone correct me if that's not the problem there. Like Frieza survived the Spirit Bomb which swallowed his attack. He survived the clash with Goku despite losing the clash. Vegeta survived the clash with goku despite losing it.Bruh.
He didn't defend himself against Vegeta's normal attacks either, yet those didn't do anything to him.