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Theglassman12

VS Battles
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So after quite some time of digging through the franchise, and especially going through Grimoire of Souls for a bit, I've found quite a lot of things to help flesh out the pages more, so lets get to it.

Creatures of Chaos

So for starters, and just to help make it a lesser pain in the ass for future revisions, I've made a page for creatures of chaos stuff since a lot of abilities/resistances cross scale to each other. So basically anyone that either has access to chaos magic, is a creature of chaos/vampire/dark lord will have this on their pages to make it much easier to trim down the pages in terms of showing what cross scales in the first place, on top of fleshing out some of the abilities like Non-Physical interaction among many other stuff.

Next up is an argument for a higher tier regeneration. So the creatures of chaos generally have mid godly for having some feats of regenerating their entire body with nothing but their soul remaining, with even stuff like actual soul destruction being a thing and they can just come back from it. However with some digging with the lore, this should be High-Godly for all of them, and the simple matter is that chaos/darkness exists within their very soul. Not only does Grimoire of Soul make that abundant with the vital souls being something that exists in their being that causes chaos, but also just the entire lore of the darkness/chaos within the hearts/souls of living beings being what causes these creatures to come back, implying that one's soul would harbor some aspect of chaos itself, and Chaos in general is already accepted as a concept given how it functions in the verse. So they'd have some form of High-Godly due to the soul having literal chaos within them. There's also the fact that with the vital souls stuff being able to control their own narrative with the grimoire world, and how the magic in the grimoire and real world are one and the same and that they're the embodiment of magic even in the grimoire itself, this could be potentially argued that some narrative level restoration is possible for creatures of chaos. Overall creatures of chaos would have conceptual and narrative high godly regen from this alone.

Another addition to chaos powers is Type 2 Corruption, Empathic Manipulation and Dream Manipulation. This is mostly from the fact that shadow magic, something that's treated as opposite to light, is capable of corrupting individuals and making them more ferocious than normal, succumbing to bloodlust and have endless nightmares as a result of the overexposure to it.

Another ability they should get is Power Absorption and potentially Reactive evolution, due to numerous creatures of chaos having instances of adapting to their environment or just gaining the powers of others through battle or other scenarios.

Last thing to list off for creatures of chaos is the fact that they can indeed utilize holy magic and are stated to be resistant towards them. Just to hammer in the fact that conventional weakness of monsters tied to darkness in fiction doesn't apply to creatures of chaos.

Vampires

Vampires would get Animal Manipulation for being able to control bats.

They'd have Stealth Mastery and passive Temperature Manipulation and Soul Manipulation for being able to make no sound to catch folks by surprise and being capable of freezing someone down to their very soul on contact.

They'd also have either an enhanced version of type 5 Immortality or just type 1 Nonduality due to them being state on numerous occasions to drift between/transcend life and death itself.

They'd also have Possession, Blood Manipulation, Deconstruction and Biological Absorption due to having possession, and their ability in general can manipulate their blood into a target and destroy them from the inside out and absorb their entire being into themselves.

They'd also scale to the abilities of Glyphs due to this magic being stated to being that of a vampire by Sypha.

Dark Lords

Dark Lords would gain Abstract Existence for the following reasons. Gods in general are stated to be abstract existences with no real appearances or names, and Death is flat out confirmed to be a god while Dracula's status as a dark lord transcends the gods themselves. So with that in mind, this would scale any dark lord to being an abstract being, further proven with how they're tied to the darkness within all beings to come back.

Another ability to be pushed for Dark Lords is potentially Higher Dimensional Existence. This is mainly thanks to this CRT, which establishes the Chaos that Soma fights as the evil will in Dracula's Soul, and in the end of Aria of Sorrow it exists as an entire plane of reality that's a part of the castle itself. So all Dark Lords would be tied to this given how their own soul is directly tied to this entire plane of reality.

Chaos

Thanks to the Bloody nightmare novel, it elaborates more on the nature of the dark lord/chaos and god itself with how intrinsically tied to one another like two sides of the same coin, plus with some digging on Lords of Shadow, one of the knowledgeable members talk about how shadow and light are two sides of the same coin, essentially acting as a dual nature where one needs the other to function. With these, these should be on the cosmology blog with the nature of chaos and darkness to further solidify the idea that Chaos is indeed a universal concept, on top of it being a type 1 concept given how God, its polar opposite, existed far before the creation of the world.

Alucard

Alucard has further evidence of him gaining dark lord magic, on top of the statement on how he has dracula's magic, he even states that if he were to die, only his human side would die, and he'd be reborn as another dracula.

Aeon

Aeon would have resistance to Extrasensory perception for being undetectable to Alucard.

This mostly is just a time watcher thing in general, but Aeon and Saint Germain could potentially have Nonduality due to them existing outside of reality and having no ties to either light and darkness, though if this doesn't get accepted I won't really lose sleep over it.

Glyphs and Magic

Glyphs in general would get some additional scans like the fact that it doesn't just extend to living beings, but the entire environment itself as shown throughout the game with Shanoa being able to mess with the environment itself and causing it to change, further cementing it being a universal type of energy source. There's also more evidence that should be added to the blog about those with magic gain further increase in strength.

Grimoire of Souls roster

They'd all have access to creatures of chaos magic due to having Death's robes, which grants one the ability to become a creature of chaos.

The next one is for Simon specifically, but he'd get another key in his profile for Super Castlevania 4, mostly on the fact that in the novel about it, he's verbatim described to be a vampire.

Shanoa and Maria would have Supernatural Luck thanks to Weegie.

Dracula's Magic

The transmutation scan would be updated by this text from the novel, that talks about how the chaos from Dracula can turn man into monsters.

Curse Manipulation, Energy Absorption and Power Nullification would be included for Dracula's magic due to the fact that spirits, beings who can inflict curse on you on contact is stated to have the castle's magic seeped into its being.

One other important thing to note is how Dracula's castle has a parallel dimension via the mirror world, so the size of the castle will likely be from Low 2-C to baseline 2-C, meaning characters like Shaft, Arikado, and maybe the LoS characters would scale to this, though the latter I'd probably make it Low 2-C, possibly 2-C.

Dracula should also have an intelligence increase for his resurrections as it's stated both his knowledge and power increase every resurrection.

Layered Hax

So in the layered hax thread, it was accepted that Dracula's magic growing stronger would translate to layered hax due to how Alucard's resistance functioned against it, so from that alone, every single resurrection would translate to a layered hax. So at bare minimum it would look like this: Chaos (13 Layers) > Old Julius >= Dark Lord Soma (12 Layers) >= 2036 Alucard =?= DoS Soma > 1999 Julius > AoS Soma = 1999 Dracula (11 Layers) >= 1999 Alucard =?= Graham = Yoko > Jonathan and Charlotte (End game) > PoR Dracula (10 Layers) > John Morris = Eric Lecarde > Bloodlines Dracula (9 Layers) > Bram Stoker Dracula (8 Layers) = Dominus' full power > OoE Dracula (7 Layers) = Aeon = SOTN Alucard > SOTN Dracula (6 Layers) = Jonathan and Charlotte (Mid Game) > SOTN Richter > SOTN Maria =?= Shanoa > RoB Dracula (5 Layers) = RoB Richter = RoB Maria =?= Albus = Barlowe > Juste Belmont > Wraith Dracula (4 Layers) >= Simon > Simon's Quest Dracula (3 Layer) > C1 Dracula (2 Layer)= Christopher > Adventure Dracula (1 Layer) > CoD Trevor = C3 Dracula > C3 Trevor = C3 Alucard (Baseline) > Vampire Killer Leon = Hector (Full Power) = Kid Dracula > Carmilla = Death = Olrox = Sypha = Grant = Hector = Isaac = Saint Germain =?= Walter =?= Galamoth > Time Reaper =?= CoD (Weakened) Dracula > Shaft >=? Dario = Dmitrii > WoA Leon = Jonathan and Charlotte (Early Game) > The Night

However there can be an argument that this can skyrocket to a bigger number of layers. In Grimoire of Souls, we already have the confirmation that each grimoire documents every time Dracula has been fought and defeated, and we've seen this across many eras from Dracula's Curse, all the way to Portrait of Ruin and even beyond with stuff like Soma, but there's more implications and statements that a bunch more grimoires exist in the library, and we have a visual showcase of the library itself in the main menu of the game. If we count every single book in the shelf and generalize the amount based on how many books are held in each shelf, we'd get roughly 720 grimoires, which would document each and every fight against Dracula. Slap that onto the fact that Dracula's magic grows stronger, this would arguably increase the layers to an insane degree. Though where exactly this would start, I'd argue it would be post SOTN since Alucard comments on how the grimoires documented fights he wasn't a part of, so the insane jump can start from there.

Last thing to mention about this, but with Time Reaper being able to nuke everything in existence, this would extend to all the grimoires, which are alternate worlds, so the feat of nuking 18 timelines would go up to 720+ worlds/timelines.

The Belmonts

The Belmonts would get more evidence for extrasensory perception due to Trevor being able to sense Alucard despite him changing his appearance.

Soma Cruz

Soma would have resistance to Power Nullification due to fighting off Aurora, which can create several spatial barriers to remove one's power.

General abilities and resistances

There's an additional story text from Lucy that talks about slaying dark creatures, and she mentions that she specifically lacks the talent to even kill them, so this would be given as further evidence of hunters or creatures of chaos being capable of killing creatures of chaos, and therefore gaining immortality/regeneration negation.

Magic should have some form of type 1 Information Manipulation due to how Lucy and Hermina are able to create beings from information via magic.

Magic should include Biological Manipulation due to how Gergoth was warped into the being it is because of magic.

Magic should also have Life Manipulation due to numerous instances of magic being able to create sentient life from inanimate objects.

Everyone gets an additional reasoning for shrugging off Power Absorption, which is the ghosts in Castlevania are verbatim stated to drain the power of those they possess and the characters can shrug off its effects easily.

Agree: 10 (Eseseso [neutral on nonduality time watchers], DarkdragonMedeus [same as Eseseso], chosen, TyranoDoom30 [unsure on mirror world scaling], Georredannea15, Elizhaa [neutral on nonduality time watchers], TISSG7Redgrave, UchihaSlayer96, Planck69 [neutral on nondual time watchers], ActuallySpaceMan42 [neutral on high godly and layers, disagree with nondual time watchers])

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
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Not sure about the High-Godly regen stuff, Aeon's Nonduality or the HDE, but the rest is good.

Especially the layers stuff.

And I think that the vampires stuff qualifies for both enhanced Type 5 immortality as well as Nonduality (Aspect 1: Life and Death)
 
The Nonduality for Aeon would extend to Saint germain since they both are the same type of beings.
 
From what I remember of the games (planning to soon rego through them) this looks good (so close to becoming 2b😭)
 
I'm only here to comment on this because I have zero desire to comment on anything else really
Magic should have some form of type 2 Information Manipulation due to how Lucy and Hermina are able to create beings from information via magic, and given how creatures of chaos can utilize the magic to reform their existence back, this could be argued as an informational level high godly regen too.
This doesn't have to be info type 2 to actually work for this context, considering the use of both memories and records within the videos it seems more likely that the use of information here is instead being used as knowledge, and using said knowledge as a basis with which they recreate the person (which is why they need highly detailed information). So this would be info type 1 + creation/summoning instead
 
Hmm, yeah I can see that being the case, I’ll reword it to being type 1 information hax.
 
Magic should have some form of type 1 Information Manipulation due to how Lucy and Hermina are able to create beings from information via magic, and given how creatures of chaos can utilize the magic to reform their existence back, this could be argued as an informational level high godly regen too.
Does Info 1 work for regeneration?

At least on the regeneration page it only mentions type 2 for ways to get High-Godly, and not general information.
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, et cetera.
 
Regarding layered hax, is plot manipulation included? because from what you said it's just that Dracula's magic has many layers, while plot hax is a part of the nature of Chaos and not Dracula's magic
 
@Rabbit2002 Dracula’s magic is still chaos in nature, so the plot hax would be included by default.

Which does remind me, Creatures of chaos should also have Abstract Existence type 2 due to them embodying some form of aspect of chaos itself given the lore.
 
Their literal spirit is fundamentally tied to the chaos in the castle, which exists as an entire dimension and is essentially part of the castle itself. With that thread linked that explains everything, Soma didn't fight the actual multiversal concept of chaos, just his literal inner demons, which exists as an entire plane of reality, so their true nature would exist as a higher form of existence.

Their souls are stated to have chaos itself, which is a fundamental force in the castlevania world given how literally every single mention of dracula's or the monster's immortalities mention how chaos exist within the souls/hearts of humanity to bring them back. Given their soul (which has chaos/darkness in it) has been destroyed and they can come back from its destruction alongside the fact that numerous monsters can reform their entire body from complete destruction and even only having their soul remain, it would be high godly. Same with the whole grimoire thing when they're the manifestation of the magic in the book, which writes down their fundamental existence, so they're able to recover their narrative from being destroyed.
 
Their literal spirit is fundamentally tied to the chaos in the castle, which exists as an entire dimension and is essentially part of the castle itself. With that thread linked that explains everything, Soma didn't fight the actual multiversal concept of chaos, just his literal inner demons, which exists as an entire plane of reality, so their true nature would exist as a higher form of existence.
Ok.
Their souls are stated to have chaos itself, which is a fundamental force in the castlevania world given how literally every single mention of dracula's or the monster's immortalities mention how chaos exist within the souls/hearts of humanity to bring them back. Given their soul (which has chaos/darkness in it) has been destroyed and they can come back from its destruction alongside the fact that numerous monsters can reform their entire body from complete destruction and even only having their soul remain, it would be high godly. Same with the whole grimoire thing when they're the manifestation of the magic in the book, which writes down their fundamental existence, so they're able to recover their narrative from being destroyed.
Ok.
 
Agreed with everything, just not too sure on 2-C castle since the Mirror World isn't given a stated size and showing. I think a better case for it would be the fact that it contains Another Dimension inside of it
 
It’s literally stated to be a parallel dimension and we see it being an alternate realm to the castle, I don’t see why it can’t scale directly to the castle itself.
 
I'm pretty sure that on the wiki you need more straight forward evidence for that being universal sized, since iirc statements such as parallel and alternative aren't enough, specially when there's not the presence of the word "universe"
 
Agree with non-duality, being fundamentally inherently independent and unaffected by reality, which has a duality in it, is what gives you that.
Another ability to be pushed for Dark Lords is potentially Higher Dimensional Existence. This is mainly thanks to this CRT, which establishes the Chaos that Soma fights as the evil will in Dracula's Soul, and in the end of Aria of Sorrow it exists as an entire plane of reality that's a part of the castle itself. So all Dark Lords would be tied to this given how their own soul is directly tied to this entire plane of reality.
Btw, is there anything more specific about this? Because HDE only deals with your axes, but I didn't see any reference to it here.

The rest is fine, I guess.
 
@TyranoDoom30 the parallel dimension is in reference to the castle itself, which has a plethora of evidence being an entire universe/dimension given how the abyss is connected, which is an alternate dimension, and Alucard uses the Japanese word 世界 when referring it to being a spiritual world and we quite literally see an entire universe in the chaotic realm. Among other stuff like holding celestial objects like moons and suns and just completely alternate planes of reality in it. Given we already have these scans for the castle, anything that’s just a dimension parallel to it would just cross scale in scope by default.

@Georredannea15 like I said, it’s their inner soul/true nature which is tied to the chaos realm, which is fundamentally a part of the castle itself, and the castle is an entire dimension with its own flow of time, so their true state would quite literally be one with the entire dimension itself.
 
I am neutral about the nonduality of time watchers.
The rest seems fine.
 
@Georredannea15 like I said, it’s their inner soul/true nature which is tied to the chaos realm, which is fundamentally a part of the castle itself, and the castle is an entire dimension with its own flow of time, so their true state would quite literally be one with the entire dimension itself.
Having the same nature as a realm, or having the same nature as anything higher dimensional does not necessarily mean HDE. Especially after the HDE thread Ultima and DT addressed, for HDE it has to be shown in some way that the characters have an extra axis.

So, I don't really agree with the HDE part, but the rest seems fine I guess.

A given object or entity is referred to as being higher-dimensional when they exist as part of a system with a number of coordinates axes greater than our own, or in layman's terms, if they possess more than three dimensions.
 
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I once asked a staff if being composed entirely of some 4-D magic/energy would give HDE and the answer was no. Although I don't know if this is comparable to what we have here.
 
@Georredannea15 Literally why would having the same nature not count when the castle is its own space time, which by default means it has an extra axis? Zamasu being one with the timeline and Alvis being the foundation of the universe for Xenoblade is more than enough to consider for HDE without it being spelled out for us that he got an extra axis.
 
@Georredannea15 Literally why would having the same nature not count when the castle is its own space time, which by default means it has an extra axis? Zamasu being one with the timeline and Alvis being the foundation of the universe for Xenoblade is more than enough to consider for HDE without it being spelled out for us that he got an extra axis.
There is a difference between merging or covering with space-time itself and having the same nature as it. The expression “having the same nature” has to be contextualized within itself, otherwise it doesn't really give you any extra axis.
 
Which I did and elaborated on how their spirit is tied directly into this castle in the form of an entire plane of reality. If you don't understand this idk what to tell you other than "that's literally what the final boss of Aria of Sorrow is".
 
So, the things you presented were just things of the same nature. Nothing really direct about their axes or their dimensions or their size.
 
Again, what part of that is remotely necessary when other characters that I have listed have HDE with no need of a mention of higher dimensional axis and just them literally being one with the universe/space time? If you can't really explain that then I can't really take you seriously on this subject matter.
 
Again, what part of that is remotely necessary when other characters that I have listed have HDE with no need of a mention of higher dimensional axis and just them literally being one with the universe/space time? If you can't really explain that then I can't really take you seriously on this subject matter.
But what I'm trying to explain is the difference between being the universe itself and having the same nature.

You have the same nature, but “in what sense do you have the same nature?” You don't have a concrete context for HDE yet, but you interpret “having the same nature” as being as bigger like spacetime itself and having the same axis as it. And that would be unhealthy.
 
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