- 6,494
- 3,324
Greetings, VSDebater
I'm here today to talk about Castlevania's Regenerationn, Regenerationn Negation and Immortality, and its problems, obvisouly, this is a CRT so it has problems
This will be separated in tabs to make sure everything is clear and organized
Currently, our Castlevania Characters (and I say that, I mean ALL of them [Yeah, sounds wrong right ? I'll get on this soon]), are listed on being capaple of negation Mid Godly Regneration and Immortality Types 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. First and for most, it shouldn't scale to absolutely everyone on the verse, and even after that, they are both wrong. Some of these Immortalities are not negated viakilling the target, and we can see that just by looking at its description:
1: Eternal Life: Characters gifted with this type of immortality cannot die from natural causes, such as old age or conventional illness, but can be killed by unnatural causes. To clarify, this type of immortality can include both those who do not age at all, and those who still grow old, but will never die of old age. However, in the case of the latter it should be made clear that this is not just Longevity, as characters with that ability will eventually die of old age, as opposed to Eternal Life, for which dying of old age is not possible.
So what,they can make them Age ? They have Age Hax ? Nope, Type 1 Immortality is indeed one of Drac's abilities but killing someone with said Immortality doesn't give you Type 1 Immortality Negation, anyone can do that, this one only covers dying from old age, so it should be removed from their Immortality Negation "pack"
3: Immortality via Regenerationn: Characters with this type of immortality can simply regenerate from wounds that would normally be lethal, though its effectiveness depends on the degree of the Regenerationn.
They indeed neg this, buuuut only part of them, I'll explain this later
4: Immortality via reincarnation or Resurrection: Characters that are immortal because, whenever they die, they will simply reincarnate within another body or resurrect themselves at a later point in time.
While some times Dracula was resurrected via a ritual done by humans, he came back by himself some other times, so they can't actually negate this or only some people is actually able to, mainly, the ones who killed Dracula and he needed a human ritual to come back
However, this one is tricky because Dracula's resurrection powers is by Chaos, isn't it ? So Type 8 Immortality, not resurrection on his own. The whole rituals and stuff is actually Chaos on the background, "chaos within their hearts" is what explain this, and since Chaos doesn't have issues on doing this, they shouldn't be able to negate
Also, no, they can't "negate for 99 years as Drac comes back after 100", Simon killed him in 1691 and he was coming back in 1740 for Harmony of Dissonance and then again in SOTN, Chaos corruption takes time, that's the explanation
5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
Unsure about this one, so I'll just leave to discussion. Did they actually killed Death ? If yes, it came back thanks to Type 8 Chaos Resurrection, also, Type 8 covers conceptual existence (Death being...death), so I don't really know why Type 5 is here
Chaos could scale but Soma never killed it
6: Parasitic: The character is able to attain a sort of immortality by abandoning bodies whenever necessary to transfer their consciousness to another body, whether they are possessing someone else or switching to a backup body.
This can be negated before the user transfers his essence to another body, killing him doesn't mean negating this
7: Undead: Characters who cannot die due to technically being already dead, often overlapping with other forms of immortality.
Well, they can kill him so idk, works for this one
8: Reliant Immortality: The character cannot die as long as a certain being, object, or even concept exists.
The most important of them all, the creatures of the night, which even includes Dracula and Death, are creatures derivatives from Chaos, and will eventually return thanks to it, and guess what ? They do, every single game (Minotaur, Death, Medusa Heads, etc). This was explained by Matt in his awesome Castlevania blog
"Chaos is mentioned several times in Castlevania, and it is described as being what both Dracula's castle and Dracula himself are made of, the source of their power. Chaos can be found on the heart of every human, and this Chaos can revive Dracula and the demonic forces."
Considering this, we can't just say the cast negate Type 8 where the very thing happens, Drac comes back, the creatures come back, it takes time, but it happens. There is more explanation to this:
The Chaos in the humans heart brings them back, note that this quote comes form a novel that takes place after Dawn of Sorrow, which also shows how Soma didn't killed Chaos, while this could mean they have two Type 8s (Mainly, being alive so long as humanity exists and Chaos exists), the novel only says that the chaos within them is what brings them back, so humanity doesn't actually do something here, the only being behind this, is Chaos, and since it always brings them back, they don't negate Type 8, if so many years to resurrect is an effect done by the heroes, then they can delay, but not negate the process
So basically, not all of those are actually negated, some of them are just wrong by default (Type 1) or doesn't actually gets negated as they still happen. Type 8 usually takes time, so the actual games debunk this one by default
Type 8 goes to Drac's Regenerationn, which is currently listed as Mid Godly, well, about that, let's see the decription on his profile:
Regenerationn (Mid-Godly; Cannot be killed as long as humanity, and the Chaos within their hearts exist. Will reform and revive even if his soul is destroyed and his existence is erased)
This isn't actually right as humanity existing is fine, the problem is the chaos in their heart
Death also has this description: Regenerationn (Mid-Godly, is a creature of Chaos)
Abaddo and Zephyr also have this, but no descripton is given
Well, first I'll would like to see the statements about Drac coming back against those things, sure, Belmonts and Co currently have Soul Hax listed, but not dying to them is Soul Hax Resistance unless more info is given to us, and I don't remember his Soul being destroyed besides Demon Castle War, some people indeed fought against a Weakened Version of Drac which was a spirit-like creature, but hurting souls directly is NPI, and after Dracula was killed in this form, he only came back via Chaos Type 8, his existence being erased is also one thing I'll like to see and even if he can indeed come back, it would be Low Godly, not Mid Godly unless said EE is stated to be able to destroy Body, Mind, Soul and etc. And even with this, if Dracula only came back decades later or something, then it's Chaos Based, actual proof of Regenerationn would be coming back during the fight, which wasn't the case
Also, his Post Demon Castle War feat of coming back is not Regenerationn but Type 4 Immortality, focused on Reincarnation Shenanigans, as his connection to Chaos was sealed via Eclipsing the Castle (lol)
Now, at this point you know that coming back thanks to Chaos isn't Regenerationn, that description actually shows us two examples of Type 8 Immortality:
1 - Not being able to die so long as there is Chaos in their hearts
2 - Not being able because Chaos brings it back
So basically, Chaos existence grants Dracula Immortality, and since he always come back, they don't negate this one. Belmonts, Hector, Dominus and Alucard are indeed capable of killing Dracula, but that is via bypassing his other Immortalities and his Regenerationn, they can't negate Drac's connection to Chaos, since this is what brings Drac back. Demon Castle War also gives this more logic, as they needed to sever his connection to the Castle (And by that, Chaos) to avoid his Resurrection, however they weren't able to avoid his Reincarnation. So Chaos Based Type 8 Immortality is something that can't be negated, and both Alucard and a Belmont (Julius, in that case), were present in the event
This also goes with my proposal on removing this negations from most profiles, Dracula was only killed by a few group of people, not all of them, and to do that, you need to negate his Immortalities (except 8, as it works with time) and Regenerationn
1 - Belmonts and Morris obviously scale
2 - Alucard scales (His Sword and Spear, so Lecardes)
3 - Hector scales
4 - Shanoa via Dominus also scales
5 - Soma scales (?) I'll leave him up to discussion
So Saint Germain, Demons, Maria, Death, people who never fought Dracula, don't negate his Regenerationn or his Immortalities
Note that Sypha and Grant dont't scale as they didn't killed Drac, every description of Trevor says that it was him who killed Drac, not those two, they sure helped on the battle, however, so Regenerationn Negation should be fine. Yoko's case is similar as she was with Julius and Alucard on her possible battle against Dark Lord Soma, and the same goes for Charlotte, as she was with Jonathan who had the Vampire Killer. Now you might be asking yourself, what Regenerationn ? Drac consistently shows some interesting feats of Regenerationn: decapitaion, exploding in pieces and even a mass of blood on Castlevania Chronicles, this is Low High at best. In Castlevania The Adventure, he gets blow up to what appears to be vapor, on 1:10, that's Mid-High, which is pretty good if you ask me, however it could be him turning into mist to avoid attacks, so, actually, Possibly Mid High works
Coming back from Existence Erasure, as listed on his profile, needs more detail but could give him a more advanced Regenerationn, if, of course, was at mid of the battle, not decades, that would fall under Resurrection Via Chaos = Type 8 Immortality
So, we need to change/remove/add these things:
Regenerationn Negation (At least Low High, possibly Mid-High, capable of successfully hurting Dracula, who can come back from a mass of blood and possibly being reduced to vapor)
List: Leon, Trevor, Alucard, Christopher, Simon, Juste, Richter, Shanoa (Via Dominus only), Jonathan, Julius, Soma (?)
They lose their Immortality Negation, all of them, since they didn't kill Drac, even the Type 8 one, as they can't keep creatures from Chaos permanently killed, as they always come back
List: Sypha, Grant, Yoko and Charlotte
Also, examples of Death's Regenerationn would also be very useful
Regenerationn (At least Low High, possibly Mid High, capable of coming back from decapitation, being blown to pieces, a mass of blood and possibly being reduced to vapor)
I'm here today to talk about Castlevania's Regenerationn, Regenerationn Negation and Immortality, and its problems, obvisouly, this is a CRT so it has problems
This will be separated in tabs to make sure everything is clear and organized
Currently, our Castlevania Characters (and I say that, I mean ALL of them [Yeah, sounds wrong right ? I'll get on this soon]), are listed on being capaple of negation Mid Godly Regneration and Immortality Types 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. First and for most, it shouldn't scale to absolutely everyone on the verse, and even after that, they are both wrong. Some of these Immortalities are not negated viakilling the target, and we can see that just by looking at its description:
1: Eternal Life: Characters gifted with this type of immortality cannot die from natural causes, such as old age or conventional illness, but can be killed by unnatural causes. To clarify, this type of immortality can include both those who do not age at all, and those who still grow old, but will never die of old age. However, in the case of the latter it should be made clear that this is not just Longevity, as characters with that ability will eventually die of old age, as opposed to Eternal Life, for which dying of old age is not possible.
So what,they can make them Age ? They have Age Hax ? Nope, Type 1 Immortality is indeed one of Drac's abilities but killing someone with said Immortality doesn't give you Type 1 Immortality Negation, anyone can do that, this one only covers dying from old age, so it should be removed from their Immortality Negation "pack"
3: Immortality via Regenerationn: Characters with this type of immortality can simply regenerate from wounds that would normally be lethal, though its effectiveness depends on the degree of the Regenerationn.
They indeed neg this, buuuut only part of them, I'll explain this later
4: Immortality via reincarnation or Resurrection: Characters that are immortal because, whenever they die, they will simply reincarnate within another body or resurrect themselves at a later point in time.
While some times Dracula was resurrected via a ritual done by humans, he came back by himself some other times, so they can't actually negate this or only some people is actually able to, mainly, the ones who killed Dracula and he needed a human ritual to come back
However, this one is tricky because Dracula's resurrection powers is by Chaos, isn't it ? So Type 8 Immortality, not resurrection on his own. The whole rituals and stuff is actually Chaos on the background, "chaos within their hearts" is what explain this, and since Chaos doesn't have issues on doing this, they shouldn't be able to negate
Also, no, they can't "negate for 99 years as Drac comes back after 100", Simon killed him in 1691 and he was coming back in 1740 for Harmony of Dissonance and then again in SOTN, Chaos corruption takes time, that's the explanation
5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
Unsure about this one, so I'll just leave to discussion. Did they actually killed Death ? If yes, it came back thanks to Type 8 Chaos Resurrection, also, Type 8 covers conceptual existence (Death being...death), so I don't really know why Type 5 is here
Chaos could scale but Soma never killed it
6: Parasitic: The character is able to attain a sort of immortality by abandoning bodies whenever necessary to transfer their consciousness to another body, whether they are possessing someone else or switching to a backup body.
This can be negated before the user transfers his essence to another body, killing him doesn't mean negating this
7: Undead: Characters who cannot die due to technically being already dead, often overlapping with other forms of immortality.
Well, they can kill him so idk, works for this one
8: Reliant Immortality: The character cannot die as long as a certain being, object, or even concept exists.
The most important of them all, the creatures of the night, which even includes Dracula and Death, are creatures derivatives from Chaos, and will eventually return thanks to it, and guess what ? They do, every single game (Minotaur, Death, Medusa Heads, etc). This was explained by Matt in his awesome Castlevania blog
"Chaos is mentioned several times in Castlevania, and it is described as being what both Dracula's castle and Dracula himself are made of, the source of their power. Chaos can be found on the heart of every human, and this Chaos can revive Dracula and the demonic forces."
Considering this, we can't just say the cast negate Type 8 where the very thing happens, Drac comes back, the creatures come back, it takes time, but it happens. There is more explanation to this:
| ''"We were born out of the chaos in humans. There is no use in understanding each and every individual human being." "I have not thought of hearing those words coming from someone who has continued to taste pain from that [individual] named Belmont." Olrox prayed, and instantly a large miasmatic vortex welled up from the ground and an image of a giant skull appeared in the air. Death avoided a close call while Olrox started happily talking from somewhere. "I am different from Dracula. I like humans, the emotions of forgotten humans. They are interesting and there is one more desire I wish to understand." "……" "If I could control the even heart that is the root of humans……Would the chaos that is born from them no longer exist? I have no interest in tranquility but it could be fun to challenge that."'' |
So basically, not all of those are actually negated, some of them are just wrong by default (Type 1) or doesn't actually gets negated as they still happen. Type 8 usually takes time, so the actual games debunk this one by default
Type 8 goes to Drac's Regenerationn, which is currently listed as Mid Godly, well, about that, let's see the decription on his profile:
Regenerationn (Mid-Godly; Cannot be killed as long as humanity, and the Chaos within their hearts exist. Will reform and revive even if his soul is destroyed and his existence is erased)
This isn't actually right as humanity existing is fine, the problem is the chaos in their heart
Death also has this description: Regenerationn (Mid-Godly, is a creature of Chaos)
Abaddo and Zephyr also have this, but no descripton is given
Well, first I'll would like to see the statements about Drac coming back against those things, sure, Belmonts and Co currently have Soul Hax listed, but not dying to them is Soul Hax Resistance unless more info is given to us, and I don't remember his Soul being destroyed besides Demon Castle War, some people indeed fought against a Weakened Version of Drac which was a spirit-like creature, but hurting souls directly is NPI, and after Dracula was killed in this form, he only came back via Chaos Type 8, his existence being erased is also one thing I'll like to see and even if he can indeed come back, it would be Low Godly, not Mid Godly unless said EE is stated to be able to destroy Body, Mind, Soul and etc. And even with this, if Dracula only came back decades later or something, then it's Chaos Based, actual proof of Regenerationn would be coming back during the fight, which wasn't the case
Also, his Post Demon Castle War feat of coming back is not Regenerationn but Type 4 Immortality, focused on Reincarnation Shenanigans, as his connection to Chaos was sealed via Eclipsing the Castle (lol)
Now, at this point you know that coming back thanks to Chaos isn't Regenerationn, that description actually shows us two examples of Type 8 Immortality:
1 - Not being able to die so long as there is Chaos in their hearts
2 - Not being able because Chaos brings it back
So basically, Chaos existence grants Dracula Immortality, and since he always come back, they don't negate this one. Belmonts, Hector, Dominus and Alucard are indeed capable of killing Dracula, but that is via bypassing his other Immortalities and his Regenerationn, they can't negate Drac's connection to Chaos, since this is what brings Drac back. Demon Castle War also gives this more logic, as they needed to sever his connection to the Castle (And by that, Chaos) to avoid his Resurrection, however they weren't able to avoid his Reincarnation. So Chaos Based Type 8 Immortality is something that can't be negated, and both Alucard and a Belmont (Julius, in that case), were present in the event
This also goes with my proposal on removing this negations from most profiles, Dracula was only killed by a few group of people, not all of them, and to do that, you need to negate his Immortalities (except 8, as it works with time) and Regenerationn
1 - Belmonts and Morris obviously scale
2 - Alucard scales (His Sword and Spear, so Lecardes)
3 - Hector scales
4 - Shanoa via Dominus also scales
5 - Soma scales (?) I'll leave him up to discussion
So Saint Germain, Demons, Maria, Death, people who never fought Dracula, don't negate his Regenerationn or his Immortalities
Note that Sypha and Grant dont't scale as they didn't killed Drac, every description of Trevor says that it was him who killed Drac, not those two, they sure helped on the battle, however, so Regenerationn Negation should be fine. Yoko's case is similar as she was with Julius and Alucard on her possible battle against Dark Lord Soma, and the same goes for Charlotte, as she was with Jonathan who had the Vampire Killer. Now you might be asking yourself, what Regenerationn ? Drac consistently shows some interesting feats of Regenerationn: decapitaion, exploding in pieces and even a mass of blood on Castlevania Chronicles, this is Low High at best. In Castlevania The Adventure, he gets blow up to what appears to be vapor, on 1:10, that's Mid-High, which is pretty good if you ask me, however it could be him turning into mist to avoid attacks, so, actually, Possibly Mid High works
Coming back from Existence Erasure, as listed on his profile, needs more detail but could give him a more advanced Regenerationn, if, of course, was at mid of the battle, not decades, that would fall under Resurrection Via Chaos = Type 8 Immortality
So, we need to change/remove/add these things:
- Characters capable of killing Dracula:
Regenerationn Negation (At least Low High, possibly Mid-High, capable of successfully hurting Dracula, who can come back from a mass of blood and possibly being reduced to vapor)
List: Leon, Trevor, Alucard, Christopher, Simon, Juste, Richter, Shanoa (Via Dominus only), Jonathan, Julius, Soma (?)
- Characters that fought Dracula, but didn't killed him (This includes Judgement people)
They lose their Immortality Negation, all of them, since they didn't kill Drac, even the Type 8 one, as they can't keep creatures from Chaos permanently killed, as they always come back
List: Sypha, Grant, Yoko and Charlotte
- Characters that fought and defeated Death:
Also, examples of Death's Regenerationn would also be very useful
- Dracula
Regenerationn (At least Low High, possibly Mid High, capable of coming back from decapitation, being blown to pieces, a mass of blood and possibly being reduced to vapor)
- Death, Abaddon and Zephyr
