Cardfight!! Vanguard Speed Re-Upgrade

[ByAsura]

They don't necessarily seem like anti-feats, then.

 

[Quangotjokes]

I mean it's still an anti feat. We visibly see the lightning blitzing them they don't even flinch before being dematerialized

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Considering the timeframe of the landing scene, we already determined that the reactions from them aren’t slow.

"Their reactions are Superhuman" is not equivalent to "Their reactions are MFTL+", and the former is not evidence for the latter.

No, but my point is that it leaves the window open for something more depending on the given context.

And this is problematic because if a character has for any reason a justification to not slowdown, then how is their full speed ever gonna be able to be used?

The reasons to not have slowdown wouldn't be "Because they REALLY want to get there quickly" it'd be "Because they weren't anywhere near their intended destination" or "They had no intended destination and were flying across the universe aimlessly". Stuff that actually dismisses the possibility of slowdown.

Not anywhere near it? Their starting point is literally at least a whole universe away. Should that...not be grounds to apply that here?

And why wouldn't "really want to get there quickly" also not apply for the same thing? You haven't really explained that. Hurrying would mean getting there as fast as possible. Fast as possible is not exactly grounds to slow.

 

[Agnaa]

No, but my point is that it leaves the window open for something more depending on the given context.

It leaves the room open for Superhuman reactions, I guess. MFTL+ is so ludicrously far above that it is not justified from such feat. If you wanna consider this sorta thing justified it'd be trying to prove that it's not that far different from other feats. Superhuman and "Crossing the observable universe in 3 seconds" are so far away that such a leap cannot be justified.

Not anywhere near it? Their starting point is literally at least a whole universe away. Should that...not be grounds to apply that here?

Not anywhere near their intended destination. They're a whole universe away from their starting point, but they're within a moon's radius of their destination.

And why wouldn't "really want to get there quickly" also not apply for the same thing? You haven't really explained that. Hurrying would mean getting there as fast as possible. Fast as possible is not exactly grounds to slow.

If they don't have MFTL+ reactions, getting there as fast as possible involves slowing down near the end of the journey.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not anywhere near their intended destination. They're a whole universe away from their starting point, but they're within a moon's radius of their destination.

I think you misunderstood what I said. The place they are starting from is nowhere near the intended destination they'd want to reach as fast as possible. Im asking why that shouldn't also be applicable under that.

And on the note of "within a moon's radius", what if it's not just simply about reaching the planet or its general vicinity? Sorta going back to the specific landing point, but it should be considered nonetheless.

If they don't have MFTL+ reactions, getting there as fast as possible involves slowing down near the end of the journey.

Well, lets open the lions den a little bit. If your purposely intent on using your full speed to get to wherever your going as fast as possible, why move that fast to begin with if you couldn't handle traveling that fast?

 

[Agnaa]

I think you misunderstood what I said. The place they are starting from is nowhere near the intended destination they'd want to reach as fast as possible. Im asking why that shouldn't also be applicable under that.

It's not about the place they're starting from being nowhere near the intended destination. It's about the place where they performed the feat being nowhere near the intended destination.

And on the note of "within a moon's radius", what if it's not just simply about reaching the planet or its general vicinity? Sorta going back to the specific landing point, but it should be considered nonetheless.

I feel like we've gone over this point multiple times in the 800+ posts about this subject. Even if they want to land on a specific part of the planet, they'd probably slow down somewhat before being 2km off the surface of the planet.

Well, lets open the lions den a little bit. If your purposely intent on using your full speed to get to wherever your going as fast as possible, why move that fast to begin with if you couldn't handle traveling that fast?

Because you can handle traveling that fast if you're going through the vast emptiness of space to a destination you know the rough co-ordinates of.

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree with the oppositions' points like Agnaa's points.

 

[Wokistan]

Didn't see a new thread got made, so I'll quote myself.

If you're going to say that clouds being over the landing site is reason to assume the characters had to react last second... then you aren't really understanding how flight works.

In a civilian context, pretty much the entire reason IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) is a thing is flying at night and flying in clouds, with IFR meaning "Instrument flight rules". A lot of flight isn't done with the pilot's visuals at all. I think actually in the modern day a majority of it isn't because instruments can just see so much farther and with autopilot helping out, but I would have to check that. Clouds being near the ground doesn't mean the reaction had to be all at once after they got out of the cloud, in fact it probably means the opposite as they have to be more on their toes than normal because flying through clouds is a lot harder and needs more active attention to manage.

If you're going to dispute flight instruments, then I'm going to preemptively say that it seems real disingenuous to make the claim that these super advanced sci fi space ships are actually inferior to not only all modern aircraft, but a lot of modern cars.

 

[Agnaa]

Didn't realize you made the same post in this thread so I'll also quote myself.

@Wokistan I think your post is heavily misguided.

The reasoning wasn't just that there were clouds over the landing site. But that when they flew in, we saw their beam of light go over the ocean in an area with no clouds, while they landed on land in an area with clouds. This is either an animation error, or indication that they changed trajectory last-second.

And this feat does not involve super advanced sci fi space ships, the thing doing the traveling is a character's soul.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Sorry for getting back to this late, have been busy w/ things off site to respond sooner.

But putting the earlier things off for a second, I’ve been made aware from others feedback that someone moving or flying towards someone else to approach them would be them using their travel speed or flight speed to do that.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

But putting the earlier things off for a second, I’ve been made aware from others feedback that someone moving or flying towards someone else to approach them would be them using their travel speed or flight speed to do that.

If a character flies directly at someone with the intention of hitting them, and it's a serious battle, I see no reason why the character would move at a massive fraction of their true flight/travel speed that they are shown capable of reaching in mere seconds. It would make them look like idiots, unless it's directly stated they can achieve that speed that quickly or they aren't moving that fast when flying at that person then I don't see why the character reacting to that person wouldn't scale to that characters flight speed in reactions.

We also already have characters who scale like this.

 

[AKM sama]

In a CQC a character will only fly as fast as to react in time if he wants to hit someone. So unless their reactions don't scale to the spaceflight speed, then we don't scale normal flight to it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That makes no sense since we explicitly don't assume a characters flight speed is at distinctly different levels. And as LordGriffin already mentioned, we already have characters and series that scale precisely like this right now. Reacting to a character flying a distance and doing something before they finish flying.

Also, "to react in time if he wants to hit someone", I assume this is only going to work if the opponent is moving away from, or towards, the flyer at the same time and isn't just stationary?

 

[Agnaa]

That makes no sense since we explicitly don't assume a characters flight speed is at distinctly different levels. And as LordGriffin already mentioned, we already have characters and series that scale precisely like this right now. Reacting to a character flying a distance and doing something before they finish flying.

CQC flight would be different from interstellar flight, because when fighting someone you'd have much less time to react if you were flying at interstellar flight speeds.

I have a feeling that the series you believe are scaling "precisely like this" aren't actually analogous. Although I have seen a few bits of supporting evidence for characters' speed which follow this logic and should be removed (a spaceship is hovering above a city, moving around a little as it progressively destroys parts of it, and a character lands an attack on the spaceship, this was invalidly used to scale to the spaceship's interstellar flight speed).

Also, "to react in time if he wants to hit someone", I assume this is only going to work if the opponent is moving away from, or towards, the flyer at the same time and isn't just stationary?

Depends on the distance and the flight speed. If someone would require reactions on the order of a planck second to fly for a punch at top speed, but their best reaction speed feat is athletic human, then even against a stationary target you'd need to slow down to be able to execute on that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

CQC flight would be different from interstellar flight, because when fighting someone you'd have much less time to react if you were flying at interstellar flight speeds.

I have a feeling that the series you believe are scaling "precisely like this" aren't actually analogous. Although I have seen a few bits of supporting evidence for characters' speed which follow this logic and should be removed (a spaceship is hovering above a city, moving around a little as it progressively destroys parts of it, and a character lands an attack on the spaceship, this was invalidly used to scale to the spaceship's interstellar flight speed).

Spaceships don't have anything to do with this actually, I mean a character traveling or flying over a distance, and another character reacts to and does whatever action before the flyer or traveler finishes moving.

Quite an amount of pages use this as a means of scaling their speeds currently. Some comics characters according to a staff member when I asked them about this, and for more specific examples, we have Courage from Courage the Cowardly Dog and especially Timmy Turner from the Fairy Odd Parents that use this same practice (and for the latter, not just Timmy, but other characters in FoP applying speed in this way too).

Also, "to react in time if he wants to hit someone", I assume this is only going to work if the opponent is moving away from, or towards, the flyer at the same time and isn't just stationary?

Depends on the distance and the flight speed. If someone would require reactions on the order of a planck second to fly for a punch at top speed, but their best reaction speed feat is athletic human, then even against a stationary target you'd need to slow down to be able to execute on that.

Well the point on the flight speed would be the opponent reacting to your flight speed and having their reactions scale to whats going towards them, reacting, and then doing whatever before the flight's done.

 

[Agnaa]

Spaceships don't have anything to do with this actually, I mean a character traveling or flying over a distance, and another character reacts to and does whatever action before the flyer or traveler finishes moving.

I don't know why they don't have anything to do with this. Where they are and where they're flying to matters, because if they don't have the reactions to stop themselves over a short distance, they won't be able to move at full speed.

In some cases you could scale it, like if a character reacts to another instance of them flying across the universe. But not if they're flying to someone 5m away to punch them.

Quite an amount of pages use this as a means of scaling their speeds currently. Some comics characters according to a staff member when I asked them about this, and for more specific examples, we have Courage from Courage the Cowardly Dog and especially Timmy Turner from the Fairy Odd Parents that use this same practice (and for the latter, not just Timmy, but other characters in FoP applying speed in this way too).

What pages currently do doesn't mean much, there hasn't been much time put in to applying these revisions, so they largely reflect our old standards rather than our current ones. If we did this every time we changed our standards we'd never be able to change our standards, since the first CRT would be met with "But no other verses have their profiles like that!"

1. From talks with comic people there might be some level of revisions necessary, but there's many cosmic-flight comic feats that would still scale, such as a case where two characters were fighting with each other while crossing vast cosmic distances.
2. The part I think you're referring to in Courage's speed "Reacted to the Evil Shadow charging at him, who is fast enough to fly to a faraway star" seems invalid, charging in a fighting situation should clearly not scale to interstellar flight, and the other part of flight speed scaling also seems invalid.
3. FoP stuff seems way too large for me to dig into right now.

Well the point on the flight speed would be the opponent reacting to your flight speed and having their reactions scale to whats going towards them, reacting, and then doing whatever before the flight's done.

Only if the flight speed you're using for that calculation holds up to scrutiny, including not running into calc-stacking issues.

This still feels like we're going over the same issues again and again, just with slightly different wording.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Spaceships don't have anything to do with this actually, I mean a character traveling or flying over a distance, and another character reacts to and does whatever action before the flyer or traveler finishes moving.

I don't know why they don't have anything to do with this. Where they are and where they're flying to matters, because if they don't have the reactions to stop themselves over a short distance, they won't be able to move at full speed.

In some cases you could scale it, like if a character reacts to another instance of them flying across the universe. But not if they're flying to someone 5m away to punch them.

Well, this isn't how things are currently treated here according to several others, some of them being staff members themselves, when asking them this. But more importantly, I don't see or agree with why in this specific instance, their speed becomes a distinctively different level for no reason when we don't treat speed like that.

And what if the character is able to stop themselves over a short distance? My point here didn't come with the idea that they couldn't.

Quite an amount of pages use this as a means of scaling their speeds currently. Some comics characters according to a staff member when I asked them about this, and for more specific examples, we have Courage from Courage the Cowardly Dog and especially Timmy Turner from the Fairy Odd Parents that use this same practice (and for the latter, not just Timmy, but other characters in FoP applying speed in this way too).

What pages currently do doesn't mean much, there hasn't been much time put in to applying these revisions, so they largely reflect our old standards rather than our current ones. If we did this every time we changed our standards we'd never be able to change our standards, since the first CRT would be met with "But no other verses have their profiles like that!"

Putting whataboutism aside, the point here by mentioning this was that the practice itself is already still a currently applicable method of speed scaling for characters and verses here, post the revision of the speed standards. And if you think this is an invalid practice, this is most certainly not something all of us are on the same page on.

Far as courage goes, the latest revision for him that was done nearly a month ago didnt have a single person, staff member, calc group member or otherwise, find this method of scaling his speed problematic despite the new standards being in place.

1. From talks with comic people there might be some level of revisions necessary, but there's many cosmic-flight comic feats that would still scale, such as a case where two characters were fighting with each other while crossing vast cosmic distances.

Sure, but again, I don't see why the distance needs to be some bigger area in order for the speed to be scaled when we don't assume the speed level is distinctly different regardless. And if your argument for this here is dependent on whether or not a character can stop themselves over a short distance, my point was taking this into account already.

1. The part I think you're referring to in Courage's speed "Reacted to the Evil Shadow charging at him, who is fast enough to fly to a faraway star" seems invalid, charging in a fighting situation should clearly not scale to interstellar flight, and the other part of flight speed scaling also seems invalid.

Yes, this is what I was talking about, not his spaceship feat. Even after a latest revision, which outright mentions "his speed is not the problem", Courage is still one of the current examples of this practice being used and acceptable here.

So unless that and other cases get changed, I don't want this case to be subjected to a double standard.

Well the point on the flight speed would be the opponent reacting to your flight speed and having their reactions scale to whats going towards them, reacting, and then doing whatever before the flight's done.

Only if the flight speed you're using for that calculation holds up to scrutiny, including not running into calc-stacking issues.

Actually, there wouldn't be any calculating done here, so im not sure why calc stacking issues would be a thing in this scenario.

 

[Agnaa]

Well, this isn't how things are currently treated here according to several others, some of them being staff members themselves, when asking them this. But more importantly, I don't see or agree with why in this specific instance, their speed becomes a distinctively different level for no reason when we don't treat speed like that.

And what if the character is able to stop themselves over a short distance? My point here didn't come with the idea that they couldn't.

Their speed doesn't become different. They haven't shown the reactions to be able to perform a feat at that speed, so we don't assume they can.

Even if the process of stopping themselves is short, there is still the time required for the thoughts of realizing something is there, and then deciding to stop, to occur.

It may take only 10ms for a mouseclick to be transmitted to a computer, but it still takes over 150ms for a human brain to register a change and decide to click that mouse. That whole process of thinking and reacting is important, not just some physical component of it.

Putting whataboutism aside, the point here by mentioning this was that the practice itself is already still a currently applicable method of speed scaling for characters and verses here, post the revision of the speed standards. And if you think this is an invalid practice, this is most certainly not something all of us are on the same page on.

It isn't, the standards that were discussed and agreed upon in their own threads don't allow for stuff like that.

Far as courage goes, the latest revision for him that was done nearly a month ago didnt have a single person, staff member, calc group member or otherwise, find this method of scaling his speed problematic despite the new standards being in place.

Maybe because that revision had nothing to do with changing his speed??????????? It was changing his AP.

Yes, this is what I was talking about, not his spaceship feat. Even after a latest revision, which outright mentions "his speed is not the problem", Courage is still one of the current examples of this practice being used and acceptable here.

The context of that was using his Relativistic (not interstellar flight related) speed for a KE calc, someone saying "Relativistic isn't an outlier because of these valid feats", and Psychomaster saying "I wasn't saying there was an issue with his speed, it's only because of KE standards."

If you want his view on that feat, ask him directly about it, don't gather some roundabout statements in another context.

So unless that and other cases get changed, I don't want this case to be subjected to a double standard.

If you want to see them downgraded too, create a CRT. I'll support it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Their speed doesn't become different. They haven't shown the reactions to be able to perform a feat at that speed, so we don't assume they can.

Okay, now im confused again here. If we don't assume the speed is different, then they would be moving and then stopping when at those speeds, wouldn't they?

Even if the process of stopping themselves is short, there is still the time required for the thoughts of realizing something is there, and then deciding to stop, to occur.

It may take only 10ms for a mouseclick to be transmitted to a computer, but it still takes over 150ms for a human brain to register a change and decide to click that mouse. That whole process of thinking and reacting is important, not just some physical component of it.

The above question sort've goes here too. Since we're on the same page that the speed isn't different, if they stop themselves in relation to the opponent doing whatever action, then wouldn't this suffice?

Putting whataboutism aside, the point here by mentioning this was that the practice itself is already still a currently applicable method of speed scaling for characters and verses here, post the revision of the speed standards. And if you think this is an invalid practice, this is most certainly not something all of us are on the same page on.

It isn't, the standards that were discussed and agreed upon in their own threads don't allow for stuff like that.

The changed standards were about not scaling reactions to flight when there's no obstacles or if slowing is done early prior to a destination. I see nowhere in that discussion where using flight speed or travel speed in a scenario like this wouldn't be allowed.

Far as courage goes, the latest revision for him that was done nearly a month ago didnt have a single person, staff member, calc group member or otherwise, find this method of scaling his speed problematic despite the new standards being in place.

Maybe because that revision had nothing to do with changing his speed??????????? It was changing his AP.

Yes and these very same individuals who have an in-depth understanding of whatever scaling is used for him, when looking over his statistics, didn't see anything problematic with using the Shadow's flight speed as a means for his reactions, or else they would've downgraded him in that same thread, or in a new one with followed revisions.

The context of that was using his Relativistic (not interstellar flight related) speed for a KE calc, someone saying "Relativistic isn't an outlier because of these valid feats", and Psychomaster saying "I wasn't saying there was an issue with his speed, it's only because of KE standards."

See above.

So unless that and other cases get changed, I don't want this case to be subjected to a double standard.

If you want to see them downgraded too, create a CRT. I'll support it.

I mean, I don't necessarily agree with this practice being invalid at this current moment, so IDK why I should be the one to address them.

Btw, you didn't reply to my point on not using calculating the opponent reacting to their opponents flight speed.

 

[Agnaa]

Okay, now im confused again here. If we don't assume the speed is different, then they would be moving and then stopping when at those speeds, wouldn't they?

They may be able to move at those speeds, but they don't have the reactions to stop at those speeds. And the speed they can stop at is important.

The above question sort've goes here too. Since we're on the same page that the speed isn't different, if they stop themselves in relation to the opponent doing whatever action, then wouldn't this suffice?

I don't really understand what hypothetical you're talking about now. Could you try recounting it from the top?

The changed standards were about not scaling reactions to flight when there's no obstacles or if slowing is done early prior to a destination. I see nowhere in that discussion where using flight speed or travel speed in a scenario like this wouldn't be allowed.

It wouldn't be allowed because you're using combat speed in CQC, not flight speed.

Yes and these very same individuals who have an in-depth understanding of whatever scaling is used for him, when looking over his statistics, didn't see anything problematic with using the Shadow's flight speed as a means for his reactions, or else they would've downgraded him in that same thread, or in a new one with followed revisions.

Oh **** off, it just didn't come up. You cannot use something this niche and asinine to overturn a site-wide standard. Get Psychomaster in here defending this, or drop this insipid point. There are a trillion reasons why a thread may not have been made to downgrade a character, you don't get to pick one of those out of thin air and pretend it represents a new site-wide standard.

I mean, I don't necessarily agree with this practice being invalid at this current moment, so IDK why I should be the one to address them.

If I had infinite time and energy I'd downgrade them myself, but I have other shit I want to do with my life that isn't creating CRTs to downgrade random verses. I have a list of two-dozen CRTs I actually want to create for verses I actually care about. Downgrading FoP's flight speed is far, far down on that list.

Btw, you didn't reply to my point on not using calculating the opponent reacting to their opponents flight speed.

I find it hard to understand how you'd do that in a way that isn't a calculation. I'll need to see what's actually done to examine this further.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

They may be able to move at those speeds, but they don't have the reactions to stop at those speeds. And the speed they can stop at is important.

Okay, so this sort've recycles the question. The speed is unchanged as we don't assume its at a distinctly different level, so when they are stopping, would this...not be them stopping at those speeds?

Not that this was the main thing for why I thought the reactions should scale, but I'll ask nonetheless.

I don't really understand what hypothetical you're talking about now. Could you try recounting it from the top?

Sure. Basically my point here is that, from feedback given to me from several others I've asked on this, a character flying or traveling towards another opponent is them using their flight or travel speed to move towards said opponent. And if the opponent reacts to the flyer / mover moving towards them, the opponent would be reacting to their flight speed / travel speed.

This was the main thing I brought up here for scaling the reactions.

It wouldn't be allowed because you're using combat speed in CQC, not flight speed.

Not from what ive been told. Combat speed is s just the speed your limb moves over a certain distance in a specific timeframe. Flying or traveling straight on to an opponent over a distance doesn't fall under that, as it's exactly what it is. Flying or traveling straight over to someone.

Oh **** off, it just didn't come up.

"Inventing a reason himself to use against me supposedly inventing a reason".

The speed rating is still on the page for a reason. Im naturally going to assume that its due to the practice still being used, going in tandem with feedback given to me that also confirms the use of the practice.

And kindly drop the attitude please, thank you.

You cannot use something this niche and asinine to overturn a site-wide standard. Get Psychomaster in here defending this, or drop this insipid point. There are a trillion reasons why a thread may not have been made to downgrade a character, you don't get to pick one of those out of thin air and pretend it represents a new site-wide standard.

Yeah and out of those reasons, I will assume because the practice is still being intent fully used. Unless you expect me to believe staff and other several experienced users analyzing a characters page, and just not happening to notice the ratings don't work under the sites new rule, is somehow a coincidence.

Hell, I could say that justification for his Relativistic rating should just be travel speed based on the wording, but thats also not reflected on the page.

If I had infinite time and energy I'd downgrade them myself, but I have other shit I want to do with my life that isn't creating CRTs to downgrade random verses. I have a list of two-dozen CRTs I actually want to create for verses I actually care about. Downgrading FoP's flight speed is far, far down on that list.

So because it's something either obscure or low on the significant pole for you, you won't take time to call out a wrong practice?

I find it hard to understand how you'd do that in a way that isn't a calculation.

Not calculating the reaction but making it roughly comparable and calling it a day? As in, basic scaling?

 

[Agnaa]

I cannot bring myself to respond to stuff I've already responded to a dozen times. If I leave something out, I've already addressed it.

Not from what ive been told. Combat speed is s just the speed your limb moves over a certain distance in a specific timeframe. Flying or traveling straight on to an opponent over a distance doesn't fall under that, as it's exactly what it is. Flying or traveling straight over to someone.

Because our indexing there is very narrow. But flying 1m to punch someone wouldn't be using speeds they've only used to fly for trillions of light years across empty space.

going in tandem with feedback given to me that also confirms the use of the practice.

I don't care about anonymous feedback. If someone wants to argue that it's usable, get them to comment here and make their case.

So because it's something either obscure or low on the significant pole for you, you won't take time to call out a wrong practice?

Yes. There are dozens of issues I'd like to call out, but I have other interests I spend my time on.

Hell, VSBW itself is very low on that list right now. I haven't created a CRT in 4 months, and both of those CRTs were small wording changes of single abilities. I haven't created an actual big CRT in 6 months.

Not calculating the reaction but making it roughly comparable and calling it a day? As in, basic scaling?

I find it pretty weird that we consider calculating a character's reaction speed to be lower counts as calc-stacking, but assuming it's the same doesn't. I'll make a Q&A thread about this.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I cannot bring myself to respond to stuff I've already responded to a dozen times. If I leave something out, I've already addressed it.

Well you did not address the point on the opponent reacting to the flyers speed. But this has to do with either being flight or combat, so I’ll respond below.

Not from what ive been told. Combat speed is s just the speed your limb moves over a certain distance in a specific timeframe. Flying or traveling straight on to an opponent over a distance doesn't fall under that, as it's exactly what it is. Flying or traveling straight over to someone.

Because our indexing there is very narrow. But flying 1m to punch someone wouldn't be using speeds they've only used to fly for trillions of light years across empty space.

And again, why? We don’t assume their flight speed would be at distinctly different levels, and like LordGriffin pointed out, they are obviously not going to purposely use a massively lower speed and make themselves look like idiots for an unexplained reason that would just be borderline headcanon.

It’s either the speed doesn’t change or does.

going in tandem with feedback given to me that also confirms the use of the practice.

I don't care about anonymous feedback. If someone wants to argue that it's usable, get them to comment here and make their case.

HSo you have no actual contending point to say against this other than not caring.

So because it's something either obscure or low on the significant pole for you, you won't take time to call out a wrong practice?

Yes. There are dozens of issues I'd like to call out, but I have other interests I spend my time on.

Hell, VSBW itself is very low on that list right now. I haven't created a CRT in 4 months, and both of those CRTs were small wording changes of single abilities. I haven't created an actual big CRT in 6 months.

Okay? Perhaps you should take the time to do that then if they’re supposedly wrong like your adamantly claiming here.

Not calculating the reaction but making it roughly comparable and calling it a day? As in, basic scaling?

I find it pretty weird that we consider calculating a character's reaction speed to be lower counts as calc-stacking, but assuming it's the same doesn't. I'll make a Q&A thread about this.

I said “roughly comparable”. Not the same.

And it’s only calc stacking here because of us calcing the reactions with a calced travel or flight speed. You already know my stance on why that shouldnt be banned, but I’m not going down that road.

Taking the normal route and not calcing the reactions at all to get a number makes it basic scaling. As I’ve been told on this too being perfectly allowed.

 

[Agnaa]

And again, why? We don’t assume their flight speed would be at distinctly different levels, and like LordGriffin pointed out, they are obviously not going to purposely use a massively lower speed and make themselves look like idiots for an unexplained reason that would just be borderline headcanon.

It’s either the speed doesn’t change or does.

You're assuming flight speed doesn't change. I'm assuming reaction speed doesn't change.

They're not deciding to use a massively lower speed for an unexplained reason. They're using a massively lower flight speed because that's the only speed they can react at.

HSo you have no actual contending point to say against this other than not caring.

"Someone told me we do this" is a non-argument. There's nothing to respond to there. Without any reason, explanation, or justification, there's nothing I can say.

And if the justification is the thing you said above, I have actually contended that point.

Okay? Perhaps you should take the time to do that then if they’re supposedly wrong like your adamantly claiming here.

No. I decide how I spend my time. Don't try to berate me into using my free time the way you want.

calc stacking stuff

I think considering a speed downgrade "calc stacking" is pretty weird, so I created a thread to get more info on it.

 

[AKM sama]

That makes no sense since we explicitly don't assume a characters flight speed is at distinctly different levels. And as LordGriffin already mentioned, we already have characters and series that scale precisely like this right now. Reacting to a character flying a distance and doing something before they finish flying.

This is the same argument from the last thread. It was made clear there too. And it is made clear in our standards too.

If we have characters that do this kind of scaling, then we need to change them. The revisions to standards was made recently so of course there are a lot of outdated profiles that used the outdated standards of scaling.

Is there anything in particular left to discuss that hasn't been touched upon? Because I don't see much point in leaving the thread open. It's already circular.