Can Zoro slay another giant?

[SemiRaedi]

Last time this match was done both characters' profiles were outdated so let's see if Zoro can get a win even in a rematch where he's the one with the AP disadvantage.

Wano Zoro (>550 Megatons) Vs Base Orochi (1 Gigaton) (1.8x AP difference)

Speed Equalised
Starting 500 meters from each other

Guy who slayed a Dragon:
Hundreds of Dragons:

 

[Bernkastelll]

Zoro has dura neg, precognition and future sight, and simply 1.8x AP difference never will be enough to defeat Zoro

 

[Kin201]

I doubt Zoro can win tbh.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Orochi is definitely taking this one. Extreme heat, redirection of flowing water rock smashing fist, and fighting style mimicry gives him the win here.

 

[SemiRaedi]

Zoro has dura neg, precognition and future sight, and simply 1.8x AP difference never will be enough to defeat Zoro

Can Precog and future sight protect Zoro from getting lighted up like this in speed equal?

 

[SemiRaedi]

And can Zoro Dura neg the entirety of Orochi's body or just sections. If it's the former than its useless

 

[Bernkastelll]

Extreme heat

Zoro resist

redirection of flowing water rock smashing fist, and fighting style mimicry gives him the win here.

Zoro has precognition and dura neg and also fighting style mimicry, and Orochi regeneration is due absorption, which means that if Zoro cuts him, Orochi can be pretty much defeated

Can Precog and future sight protect Zoro from getting lighted up like this in speed equal?

Why not?

And can Zoro Dura neg the entirety of Orochi's body or just sections. If it's the former than its useless

He can slices him in a lot of pieces due dura neg, and Orochi regeneration is useless if he doesnt absorb beings to himself

 

[SemiRaedi]

Serious questions btw, I'm not trying to sound biased or anything

 

[SemiRaedi]

Zoro resist

Hottest heat he has resisted?

Zoro has precognition and dura neg and also fighting style mimicry, and Orochi regeneration is due absorption, which means that if Zoro cuts him, Orochi can be pretty much defeated

Orochi is composed of several hundreds of dragons, saying Zoro cuts him means he wins is like saying cutting one blade of grass is mowing a lawn

Why not?

Future Sight and Precog doesn't make you able to dodge every attack especially when it's several from multiple different locations so I wanted to know whether Zoro could or not. Scans would probably give a more definitive answer so do you have any?

He can slices him in a lot of pieces due dura neg, and Orochi regeneration is useless if he doesnt absorb beings to himself

Does every slice of Zoro do Dura neg? I thought he needed specific techniques for that (not well versed in one piece so could you clear it up?).

 

[SemiRaedi]

Also what stops Orochi from using redirection on Zoro's sword slashes since he has higher durability then his swords' AP?

 

[SemiRaedi]

But anyways for those who think Orochi wins do you think that Orochi can win with just energy beams and horn + FWSR dragons since lightning and fire get negetated by haki?

 

[SemiRaedi]

Best to wait for more OP supporters to clear things up with Zoro

 

[Bernkastelll]

Hottest heat he has resisted?

not feeling flames according to profiles iirc

Orochi is composed of several hundreds of dragons, saying Zoro cuts him means he wins is like saying cutting one blade of grass is mowing a lawn

I know it, but Zoro has hundred of meters range with his sword styles, which should be enough

Future Sight and Precog doesn't make you able to dodge every attack especially when it's several from multiple different locations

Thats true, but it still helps a lot, mainly in matches that have speed equal

Does every slice of Zoro do Dura neg? I thought he needed specific techniques for that (not well versed in one piece so could you clear it up?).

Not all of it, but ''great swordsmen can cut everything'', it comes from it, however, I am not the best person to argue here, as I am currently foccusing in others verses, some OP supporters will likely apper soon and show better arguments and scans

 

[theultimate5105]

The swordmanship requires him to think about what he is cutting
if every slash was dura neg his fights Post TS would have been way easier then they already were

 

[Quangotjokes]

Orochi is essentially multiple opponents in one, each finger is a dragon with the same fighting skill as him. Precog can only get you so far. With equal speed Zoro will be overwhelmed.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Did someone called an OP supporter (unofficial so far). Just passing by to offer an explanation of Zoro's limited durability negation.

There is a common misconception that Zoro needs ShiShi sonson to bypass someone's durability, but that's false I'll elaborate on this any further.

After Zoro had reached the pinnacle of swordsmanship - the breath of all things, he can basically cut what he wishes to cut, including iron, steel and other things.

During his fight with Kaku, Kaku throughout the battle never used Tekkai whenever Zoro attacked him, despite the others constantly using Tekkai to protect themselves from damage, instead he chose to defend himself with Rankyaku and even used Tekkai to protect himself from his own Rankyaku. Zoro, who's well aware of the fact mockingly asked him why doesn't use Tekkai to which Kaku responded "it's for me to decide whether or not I should take your attack with Tekkai" contrary to his words whenever Zoro gets too close to him Kaku expressed fear because he knew that using Tekkai against Zoro would result in his defeat.


There are also plenty of other examples, but I think this explains Zoro's limited durability negation much better. Also, Zoro one shots characters comparable to him such as: Mr.1, Ohm, Kaku, Zombie Ryuma and Killer, perhaps this serves as an useful hint.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Shishi sonson is more or less implied to be his fastest technique than anything.

 

[SamanPatou]

Zoro's resistance isn't nearly enough to allow him to resist Orochi's blasts, He was just briefly engulfed in random flames, while Orochi can melt rock and other materials.

Also, his analytical preditction can work on swordsmen and likely other opponents, but it doesn't allow him to dodge a danmaku of beams, not even his Observation haki should be enough.

Zoro's dura neg is also rather limited and unexplored, it should be taken neither for granted not as always effective.

Orochi's technique mimicry might not be that useful against a swordfighter tbh, but he might redirect swordslashes with the Rock Smashing Fist.


Overall, I think Zoro has some chances to win, but I believe most of the times he just gets burned to death by Orochi's continous and multiple stream of extremely hot beams that basically are both an danmaku and almost an aoe.

 

[Eminiteable]

Unless I'm mistaken but doesn't Orochi use fire breathe more than anything in his base form? and if so what's stopping Zoro from negating it with Foxfire style?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I remain neutral, but isn't Wano Zoro being used here? He learned the ability to cut through fire that could melt a mountain instantly

 

[Ourosboros]

The speed equalized is what's killing Zoro here. He can one-shot opponents with comparable AP and dura, but what about multiple opponents with slightly superior AP and dura attacking simultaneously from all angles? Orochi can cover the whole area in flames and if that doesn't work, calculated WSRSF spam would just be overwhelming even before you factor in the possibility that Orochi might add in his horns as well

 

[SamanPatou]

Well, this is Orochi's first form, as his final form is High 6-C.

I don't remember neither Zoro nor Kinemon being able to cut apart so many blasts coming at the same time and from multiple directions, as well as resisting the whole arena being set on fire (although the battle takes place in Central Park due to SBA, this might give Zoro the ability to make some distance, but the ground itself would become more difficult to walk).

And thinking of it, maybe Orochi's technique mimicry might give him a better understanding on how Zoro' s techniques work, even if he can't replicate them.

 

[Ourosboros]

If Zoro had a significant speed advantage, he could respond to the numbers, but in this case each beam is going to be as fast/a little faster than Zoro, and each dragon head will be just as fast as him- so he's going to be hit. Plus his fire resistance isn't going to prevent him from taking constant burn damage throughout the fight and I can't see much piercing damage resistance either, whether he'd be taking his own reflected attacks or Orochi's fangs/claws/horns.

Orochi can afford to lose a couple dragon heads, but Zoro can only take so much damage. Right now I'm voting for Orochi, but I'm open to counterarguments for Zoro

 

[SemiRaedi]

I'll post this match on the OP discussion thread to get them to post their arguments.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Well, this is Orochi's first form, as his final form is High 6-C.

I don't remember neither Zoro nor Kinemon being able to cut apart so many blasts coming at the same time and from multiple directions, as well as resisting the whole arena being set on fire (although the battle takes place in Central Park due to SBA, this might give Zoro the ability to make some distance, but the ground itself would become more difficult to walk).

And thinking of it, maybe Orochi's technique mimicry might give him a better understanding on how Zoro' s techniques work, even if he can't replicate them.

The heat won't particularly bother Zoro much. Since he fought against a dragon in Punk harard while the island is continuously affected by Akainu's heat, even the ground Luffy's team was walking was essentially hot, not on the same level as Orochi's, but it won't hinder Zoro's movement (keep in mind they spent several hours walking around in Punk harard)

Even if Orochi might get a better understanding of Zoro's abilities. The Humandrills, Mihawk's trained monkey army perfectly imitated Zoro's three swords after seeing it once, not only one could imitated Zoro's three sword style, there were basically 20+ more who could do the same. His 2 years training essentially consisted of fighting against enemies, who analyzed and imitated Zoro's abilities. Zoro would just notice that Orochi is slowly analyzing his abilities, then will counter it.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I'll post this match on the OP discussion thread to get them to post their arguments.

Did my explanation answered your question regarding Zoro's limited durability negation?

 

[SemiRaedi]

What are the current wincons for Orochi and Zoro rn?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Zoro FRA

 

[SemiRaedi]

Did my explanation answered your question regarding Zoro's limited durability negation?

Sort of, what is the extent Zoro can go to with "cutting anything" and what is its full range?

 

[KingTempest]

I don't remember neither Zoro nor Kinemon being able to cut apart so many blasts coming at the same time and from multiple directions

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Sort of, what is the extent Zoro can go to with "cutting anything" and what is its full range?

It's passive, his pre-time-skip limit was Pacifista's durability, but out of all Strawhats he was the only one who damaged Kuma.

Regarding current Zoro, there's no possible way to say that without exaggerating his "cutting anything". But I would assume without Enma, his limit is Kaido's durability.

 

[Popted2]

Zoro FRA

 

[SemiRaedi]

I wonder where MonkeyofLife is? They're usually very prominent in OP matches.

 

[Ourosboros]

What are the current wincons for Orochi and Zoro rn?

Orochi: Overwhelming Zoro with multiangular WSRSF/horn spam

Zoro: Cutting up Orochi into tiny pieces from outside melee-range.

Basically if Orochi closes the distance I see him winning this. But if Zoro can stay a couple hundred meters away where he can deflect blasts and stay out of AOE, he can still deal damage from a distance without taking too much damage. Alternatively Orochi has attack reflection, technique mimicry skills and elastic biology, so he could theoretically semi-counter swordsmen techniques even if he can't turn part of his body into a sword. So Orochi isn't helpless at 100 meter+ range and would dominate at 0-50+ meter range (his melee radius) because he can gang up on Zoro with attack reflection and WSRSF spam.

If Orochi started advancing towards Zoro, would Zoro retreat and try to outrange in character?

 

[theultimate5105]

those were not equal to him in speed which is the difference

 

[SemiRaedi]

Orochi: Overwhelming Zoro with multiangular WSRSF/horn spam

Zoro: Cutting up Orochi into tiny pieces from outside melee-range.

Basically if Orochi closes the distance I see him winning this. But if Zoro can stay a couple hundred meters away where he can deflect blasts and stay out of AOE, he can still deal damage from a distance without taking too much damage. Alternatively Orochi has attack reflection, technique mimicry skills and elastic biology, so he could theoretically semi-counter swordsmen techniques even if he can't turn part of his body into a sword. So Orochi isn't helpless at 100 meter+ range and would dominate at 0-50+ meter range (his melee radius) because he can gang up on Zoro with attack reflection and WSRSF spam.

If Orochi started advancing towards Zoro, would Zoro retreat and try to outrange in character?

I think Zoro would just do similar stuff to what he did when he went against Pica, another giant sized opponent Zoro fought. You can watch that fight to get an idea of what Zoro would do imo.

 

[Kin201]

I know you are all voting Zoro because he can resist fire-based attacks, but I have not seen a proper argument that Zoro can defend against multiple attacks coming from all angles with speed equalised like this.

It's not like keeping a distance from Orochi and spamming flying sword slashes at Orochi is in character for him. Orochi can just close the distance as they fight. Zoro can't keep running away from Orochi and spamming sword slashes from a distance forever.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

so he could theoretically semi-counter swordsmen techniques even if he can't turn part of his body into a sword.

"Even if Orochi might get a better understanding of Zoro's abilities. The Humandrills, Mihawk's trained monkey army perfectly imitated Zoro's three swords after seeing it once, not only one could imitated Zoro's three sword style, there were basically 20+ more who could do the same. His 2 years training essentially consisted of fighting against enemies, who analyzed and imitated Zoro's abilities. Zoro would just notice that Orochi is slowly analyzing his abilities, then will counter it."

I think you deliberately ignored this.

 

[theultimate5105]

"Even if Orochi might get a better understanding of Zoro's abilities. The Humandrills, Mihawk's trained monkey army perfectly imitated Zoro's three swords after seeing it once, not only one could imitated Zoro's three sword style, there were basically 20+ more who could do the same. His 2 years training essentially consisted of fighting against enemies, who analyzed and imitated Zoro's abilities. Zoro would just notice that Orochi is slowly analyzing his abilities, then will counter it."

I think you deliberately ignored this.

He wouldn't be using them he would just know his techniques

 

[Nierre]

Orochi FRA. Zoro will just get overwhelmed