Can Time Manipulation, Void Manipulation or powerful Illusions screw Reality Warping?

[HaveSomeBlade]

I don't know any means to counter a powerful reality warper rather than blitzing him before he thinks you out of existence or being a even more powerful reality warper, lol.

So I was wondering if Time or Void Manipulation could work. Also powerful illusion-based techquines such as Aizen's Kyouka Suigetsu or the Uchiha Clan's Tsukuyomi and/or Izanami.


Example #1: Let's say a time manipulator sets a "return point" to rewind himself if something ever happen to him (be killed, erased of existence, etc...) This return point is always when he wakes up. One day he fights a reality warper and get killed/erased. He would return to his return point or GG? Would Reality Warping simply bypass his "protection" or the warper would need to know about his little time trick?


Example #2: Let's assume a powerful void manipulator, which is able to exist in non-existence, fights a powerful reality warper. How can Reality Warping affect such being once he/she/it lives out of existence?


Example #3: Some like him > https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Doctor_Strange_(Classic) < casts a powerful illusion before the reality warper thinks of him out of existence or whatever the hell he intend to do. What would happen? The reality warping would take effect even if its user is trapped into an illusionary reality under his enemy's control?

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

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[HaveSomeBlade]

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[HaveSomeBlade]

Last bump

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Can you please don't bump the thread in rapid succession? People find it annoying when it is done so.

 

[Reppuzan]

Generally speaking, Reality Warping tends to be of a much higher level than Time Manipulation or Void Manipulation.

Competent Reality Warpers can easily void the "save point" and its user out of existence.

Depends on whose hax is stronger. Generally speaking, Void Manipulation is only impressive if there is nothing left to counter it. The same goes for Reality Warping. But generally speaking, Reality Warping will usually in out in the end due to its versatility. For example, the Reality Warper could turn the target into an inanimate brick.

The illusion one could potentially work, but the chances of that happening are unlikely given that I can't recall a single instance of this happening in any medium aside from Aizen's screwing with Yhwach's The Almighty.

That said, your scenarios could work out if your Reality Warpers was particularly weak or lacking in creativity (i.e. Gremmy Thoumeaux).

However, they would have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and we can't be making generalizations based on hypothetical scenarios.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

Can you please don't bump the thread in rapid succession? People find it annoying when it is done so.

K, buddy. Thanks for the advice.

TBH I'm not hoping many people to answer this thread since most ppl here are lazy or just don't have enough knowledge to do so.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@HaveSome I see.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

Competent Reality Warpers can easily void the "save point" and its user out of existence.

Thanks for your answer!

I do agree with everything, but one thing. TBH it's more like I can't figure it out rather than not agreeing.

How exactly could the reality warper void the said "save point"?

EDIT: Let's assume a smarter time manipulator set his "time rewind" to always activate automatically every day at mid-night unless he willingly cancel it before said hour.

Yes, every morning he would "save" again and schedule his next rewind just in case of something unwelcome come to happen. How could the reality warper bypass that?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

^The reality warper could just compel the time manipulator to undo it or if they are powerful enough, change the very fabric of reality so that the time manipulator never did that in the first place.

Reality warping is very a complex ability to get a handle on but I look at it like this: it comes down to power level/range, creativity, knowledge and limitations.

Power Level/Range: How much can the reality warper affect at a time? Country level? Planet level? Solar System? Galaxy? How much the warper can affect can at least set a bar on what they can deal with and possibly what they can't. I would think that reality warper who can only Country level may face some problems with beings who are say Moon level just due to the fact that the level of power they have is beyond the warper's ability to entirely affect. Again, may.

Creativity: How good is the warper and using their powers? Do they just brute force their way through everything like just blowing things up? Or are they more subtle, making parts of the ground become uneven to trip an opponent up? You can have all the power in the universe but if you don't know what to do with it, it won't mean much if anything.

Knowledge: Is the warper aware of their limits? Have they experimented with their powers? Basically, do they have any actual experience.

Limitations: Is there any upper limit to their abilities? Does the warper need to visualize things to make them happen? Are certain things harder to do then others? Can they reform their own body if it's destroyed.

EX: Mad Jim Jaspers- extremely powerful reality warper whose lesser versions were affecting the multiverse by sheer accident. Weakness: if he was taken outside reality, he had no reality to warp, leaving him powerless.

EX: The Red Skull. Became a reality warper using a drained/damaged cosmic cube. Weakness: if he didn't keep his attention on his changes to reality, those changes would revert back to normal.

Once you can establish those types of parameters, you can get a better grasp on what a reality warper can and cannot deal with. If I'm a universal level time manipulator and the reality warper is only galaxy, I'll have the edge because I can affect more at a given time and my power over time may be too powerful for him to override in a straight up contest.

However, all of this is case by case and has to be throughly examined.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

@TheC2

Thanks for you answer. I totally get it.

Now my only question is: Since reality warpers aren't omniscient, how can they manipulate/warp a reality they know nothing about? Following my example, the time manipulator's rewind would be triggered if anything unwelcome come to happen to him. If the reality warper isn't aware of this "trick", how can he affect it? IMO, he can't.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

@Blade

No prob. Always happy to help if I can.

As for the next question: It depends, but more often than not I would agree. If something is happening that is just beyond the character's ability to notice, then they can't do much about it. Sure the warper could grant themselves super senses to percieve such things but then they would have even think to do that, having a reason to actually do it. Often times, a reality warper's awareness is their biggest weakness.

It really depends on the warper in question. Most, in my experiences tend to be highly intelligent, insane, comic entities or some combo of the last three. Two big ones are Mad Jim Jaspers from Marvel, who has an intelligence level rated 6/7 or a Super Genius and the Marquis of Death, who has the same intelligence level of 6/7 but also has a BILLION years worth of experience with his powers. Amazo from JLU is another one, who can view matter on a subatomic level and thus demonstrated that he has senses far beyond the norm. Others are like Odin, Galactus, Eternity, etc. who have levels of cosmic awareness to explain how they can notice things like chnages in time or the like.

So really, it's case by case.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

Sure the warper could grant themselves super senses to percieve such things but then they would have even think to do that, having a reason to actually do it.

I get it. So it really depends on the reality warper in question.

Your explanation really helped a lot. Thank you very much.

As for the quoted line, you said a warper could give himself super senses in order to perceive things he wouldn't be able normally. Said senses are also susceptible to the warper's power and/or intelligence, right? I mean, if the warper's power can't give him the power to read minds, then that's it. Or perhaps any non-idiot reality warper could grant himself mind reading powers, however, depending on the length of their original reality warping powers, his newfound power can only read the minds of, let's say, 3-A individuals and no one higher than that.

Also, just one more thing. Powerful warpers such as the ones you mentioned would be able to manipulate the reality of higher beings? For example, Could Marquis of Death warp her (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beatrice) out of existence? And regardless of the answer, what would be the difference in warping her or Pre-Crisis Superman out of existence?

Thanks in advance!

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

As for the quoted line, you said a warper could give himself super senses in order to perceive things he wouldn't be able normally. Said senses are also susceptible to the warper's power and/or intelligence, right? I mean, if the warper's power can't give him the power to read minds, then that's it. Or perhaps any non-idiot reality warper could grant himself mind reading powers, however, depending on the length of their original reality warping powers, his newfound power can only read the minds of, let's say, 3-A individuals and no one higher than that.

All of it depends on the warper in question. For instance, an idiot with reality warping could try an possess all knowledge in the universe. His powers could make that happen but that doesn't mean that his brain could withstand all that knowledge at once or at all. A reality warper who is just a normal human being outside of that, has limits. Yes, their powers could possibly allow them to bypass those but that doesn't mean that the warper has competence to achieve that effect. In fact, it would be fully possible in that scenario for the warper to drive himself mad or into a vegetative state. Too often it is assumed that reality warpers of can just make stuff happen and do whatever they need to do WHEN they NEED to. It's more like giving a person a gun. Yes, anyone can shoot one, that doesn't mean they're a good shot. But even that just depends on the nature of their powers. If they have to consciously make an effort, then it usually depends on how much power they have and how much control. If their powers are more instinctual, then it's really about how much power does it take to make things occur.

Yes, a reality warper could make himself be able to read minds but how much would depend on how far his powers go. If he's a 3-A warper, then it would stand to reason that he could possibly read the minds of on the 3-A level or lower unless something prevents that (resistances or immunity to mental probing/attacks, person in question is a telepath on that level, etc.).

As for higher dimensions, it's possible. It would just depend on the warper's level of power, control and understanding of those dimensions and the nature of their own abilities. However, it's full possible that something is just so fixed in place that the warper just can't do anying to it. Certain things will just override even their capabilities. A limit can found be somewhere. But again, case by case basis on what that limit is.

As for the difference of erasing Beatrice or Superman is the difference of their very natures. Beatrice is like that fixed point. Her very nature means that she can only really be even attempted to be erased if the very concepts she embodies (infinity and nothingness) are gone and eradicated from exisistenced. Given that, I don't really think it's possible to do that. Or at least concieve it. Hard to say really. That's the type of debate that could go on forever and you really never get anywhere conclusively. Trying to get rid of her would be like trying to pull the plug on some of the very backbones of reality, to the point that it wouldn't resemble anything that we know or have experienced. Even in terms of fiction, it's a hard thing to imagine.

Now with Supes, he's an extremely powerful individual but that's it. He has no fixed point that cannot be altered like Beatrice. For all his strength, speed and what not, Superman is just not on that level. On top of that, he's got no powers or inherent abilities to truly resist powerful reality warpers. He's not like the Royal Knights of Digimon who are virtually immune to most forms of hax including reality warping. Shoot, Mxyzptlk could turn Supes into a jelly sandwich and only doesn't becuase it wouldn't be 'fun'. For all of Superman's capabilties, he's just an extreme physical powerhouse who can do many things but at the end of the day, he's just not on that level at being able to affect things.

Hope this helps.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

@TheC2

That's a hell of an explanation. And yeah, it helped a lot.

Thanks, man. I've asked before about how reality warping "mechanics" worked and no one could clarify that the way you did. Not even close.

Many thanks!

I don't want to abuse your knowledge, but can you answer one last thing? Sorry if that's getting annoying, haha. TBH, it's more like asking your opinion rather than a question itself.

Well, there we go. There's a feat where Sonic The Hedgehog (game) do some kind of reality warping by just running at extreme speeds. It's from Sonic Generations and... well, I have no idea how to interpert that feat. What do you think it is? Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9aDrY6SAOE&feature=youtu.be


In the game, an entity known as Time Eater started devouring the time of some places, leaving them in a freeze-like state. After Sonic runs through these "stopped-in-time" places, they're restored to their former state.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

@Blade

Really, it's no problem.

Hmmm...after watching the scene several times, I can say that the problem with it is: plot convience.

The Time Eater and what it does makes sense. It has time manipulating powers and is pulling moments of time out of temporal alignment and throwing them into limbo. What doesn't make as much sense is Sonic just running through them to fix them.

Sonic Gen. was trying to go through the whole 'If you move fast enough, you can affect time' a la Flash or even older versions of Superman. The issue is that they didn't explain it that well. They're trying to say that Sonic's speed is reversing the process and keep things simple it so everyone could get the explanation without too much thought. Yet, that doesn't work. Sonic doesn't have any time alterting abilities or properities outside of technology or Chaos Control.

It be different if Tails built a device that could reverse the process and Sonic had to take it through all the displaced moments in time for it to work and that it'd be powered by his running. Instead, we get this small explanation of what's going on and that Sonic running can fix things. It's just an excuse so the game can have a plot, move forward and have a point.

All that aside, it's not really that much of a feat. The Time Eater's powers are what causing all of time displacement and Sonic is just reversing that process. At least, that's how I take it.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

@TheC2

Yeah, that's how I take it too.

I guess the best explanation for what Sonic was doing is exactly what you pointed out. Just an excuse for the game to have a plot and advance.

Once more, thank you very much for all the detailed answers!

I hope someday I'll be able to help you in some thread the same way you helped me here, haha.