General hax upgrade for Slime characters

[Jozaysmith?]

as obvious i have come back again but this time for practically everyone in verse since everyone can use magic

the feat ​

now this is a thread for magic users, i checked and recently the arguments for them seem to fall in place for
Conceptual manipulation type 3/2, reality warping, Law manipulation

In Slime magic refers to a concept that bring fourth ideas of one wishes and portray it into reality allowing the users actually rewrite laws of the world, magic itself is rooted in the laws of the world

clarification on magic ​

- now i understand the page for magic users
Which is manipulation of aspects of reality
This is different in slime in slime like i said
in slime magic as a concept refers to be able to bring forth your own ideas and with your wishes you can influence the laws of the world
Vsbw page for magic is directly influencing reality somehow, which doesn't equate to making your desires real
Additionally it generates thoughts and imagination into real life

Example of types of magic should be

Holy magic which converse their ideas of faith in their lord and it doesnt need to be holy just need to have faith, a strong belief in a certain person

Which then grants magic users in slime Reality warping, law manipulation and conceptual manipulation
still how is this conceptual manipulation?
this basically seem like reality warping or subjective reality warping anyone you call it but since according to guy in the scans

​

A known expert in this would understand magic here is according to rimuru to back up my claims magic is the idea itself

Conceptual Manipulation is the ability to manipulate, create, and/or destroy abstract concepts. This ability has a variety of applications, ranging from not combat-applicable to incredibly dominating. Conceptual Manipulation involves the manipulation of concepts, and not the universe directly. However, through this power, one can change the universe's fundamental principles on the highest level.​

Concept Creation: The ability to create concepts. By using this ability, destroyed concepts can be restored or new ones created, giving the user the ability to create fundamental principles that govern reality and the world around them. With this power, one can create a concept that is unfathomable to the current mind, changing the world to match this new conceptual universal.

Concepts by definition is an abstract idea

now for summary.​

* magic is an idea derived from the laws of the world which proves its abstract, they use the idea of magic to then influence reality- conceptual manipulation type 3/2
* projects one's thought, belief, idea and wishes into reality - reality/subjective reality warping
* turns non physical phenomenons real - reality warping
* since its based on the world laws, using it can also rewrite the laws of the world- law manipulation​

Wording.
Conceptual manipulation type 3/2; use magic which is an idea derived from world laws to alter world laws and reality. works on a conceptual level
Law manipulation: alter world laws
Subjective reality warping; brings forth one imagination and desires and make it real.

 

[AzuRizzz]

Wat

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Wat

Npc moment
why tha hell are you confused isn't this simple enough?

 

[AzuRizzz]

Npc moment
why tha hell are you confused isn't this simple enough?

My bad, i don't speak stupid.

It didn't make sense how this is conceptual manipulation to me.

It's just explaining the idea of magic, not really influencing the idea itself from what i understood.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

My bad, i don't speak stupid.

It didn't make sense how this is conceptual manipulation to me.

It's just explaining the idea of magic, not really influencing the idea itself from what i understood.

Even if you don’t have that power, you can still rewrite the laws to some extent by intervening with your wish in magicules.

 

[Mafuuu]

Could you explain more about the "Wish" here, because I didn't find the "Concept" part either.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Before you ask this you should have base knowledge of how concepts work on vsbw and how conceptual manipulation is applied if the only context you see was "wish stuff" then re read the entire op carefully and vividly not throwing away arguments then asking another, for the sake of being the op i will explain one more Time
"Magic is idea projected into reality",
That doesn't need further explanations

Could you explain more about the "Wish" here, because I didn't find the "Concept" part either.

 

[Bahaha]

I know the magic in Tensura is produced by inserting an idea into magicules which enacts a change in the laws to induce physical changes, however you require more scans for something big as conceptual manipulation.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

I know the magic in Tensura is produced by inserting an idea into magicules which enacts a change in the laws to induce physical changes, however you require more scans for something big as conceptual manipulation.

True talk

 

[Passersby]

i agree with the thread, seems simple enough

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

From what I see, its subjective reality and law manipulation, but conceptual manipulation
Part is iffy so I will be neutral on that .

 

[Jozaysmith?]

From what I see, its subjective reality and law manipulation, but conceptual manipulation
Part is iffy so I will be neutral on that .

What part is iffy let me clarify it

 

[OsakaFan]

based off the scans this is not cm type 3. magic is described as manipulating laws of nature and magic which seem more akin to magic systems rather than abstract concepts. its also compared to a language and nonphysical phenomenon which means it may be more of a metaphysical system rather than direct cm.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

based off the scans this is not cm type 3. magic is described as manipulating laws of nature and magic which seem more akin to magic systems rather than abstract concepts. its also compared to a language and nonphysical phenomenon which means it may be more of a metaphysical system rather than direct cm.

Magic itself is a concept that exist as the laws of the world literally there in the scan

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Literally read the whole thing bro

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

What part is iffy let me clarify it

About those ideas are directly getting affected or not.
cuz it says that own ideas and wishes can be used to change the reality, but not those ideas are directly getting affected.

 

[OsakaFan]

cm

i also missed the scan about holy magic. holy magic is not described as manipulating any concept. rather the strength of ones faith becomes the source of power regardless of the specific object of worship.

 

[OsakaFan]

Magic itself is a concept that exist as the laws of the world literally there in the scan

still no evidence of directly manipulating the abstract concept of magic itself. those scans talk about manipulating magical systems and energies.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Calm down
I was talking to myself and how ...
You are right now no offense
Re read the op and come back

still no evidence of directly manipulating the abstract concept of magic itself. those scans talk about manipulating magical systems and energies.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

About those ideas are directly getting affected or not.
cuz it says that own ideas and wishes can be used to change the reality, but not those ideas are directly getting affected.

I was using that for reality warping
You guys seem to literally miss the entire argument
Magic was called a concept that exist as world laws
They use magic to rewrite phenomenons
Whats so hard to understand in all this

 

[Mafuuu]

Before you ask this you should have base knowledge of how concepts work on vsbw and how conceptual manipulation is applied if the only context you see was "wish stuff" then re read the entire op carefully and vividly not throwing away arguments then asking another, for the sake of being the op i will explain one more Time
"Magic is idea projected into reality",
That doesn't need further explanations

Well I have read it, Type 3 concept is briefly related to perception, of course there are other explanations but briefly so.

Here magic is able to realize the "Wish" of a person, and the conclusion of it all is that magic can affect the laws of the world, which is where the laws of the world govern reality. For the non-physical phenomena part, it's not questionable, right? After all, magic is not something physical.

I strongly agree with the Reality Warping, Subjective Reality, Law Manipulation part because these three parts are clear.

But you know what? Usually this CM 3 is even more difficult to get because it could just be Subjective Reality, that's why I asked in the "Wish" Part because this is the key to CM3.

 

[Mafuuu]

Oh my bad, I've found it, let's just say that i was just babble.

Edit:Eh, I guess it's the same thing, for now agree with Reality stuff and law manip, neutral for CM

 

[Mafuuu]

Magic was called a concept that exist as world laws

"Projection"

 

[Catpija]

Just a minor nitpick, this statement doesn't actually say that magic is a concept. It states that magic can be defined as a power that can rewrite the law. The concept of X doesn't neccesarily talks about a literal concept, but what is/the definition of X depending on the context

Even if you don’t have that power, you can still rewrite the laws to some extent by intervening with your wish in magicules. In other words, this was the concept of magic, a kind of power.

---

Now, let's go back into the main topic. I'll believe that "Magic is an idea projected into reality" is kind of straightforward, since in the context Rimuru needed magic to interacts with abstract being such as demon. Magic can be categorized into skills, in which the latter is often said to be conceptual in nature. There're also statements that skills are manifestation of the desire of the user.

So. Lord of Vows. Or loyalty, to put it another way. The collected prayers from those who vow fealty to me. All those prayers crystallized to form this new ultimate skill—and the moment I obtained it, I could feel a new strength. (Volume 5)

…it obtained its Harvest Festival gift—conquering, and evolving, into an ultimate skill, the loftiest height possible in the world.

The chances of this working were thought to be so small that it wasn’t even worth considering. It almost seemed like a reward provided for the infinite effort involved with the attempt. Succeeding made it more likely that it could carry out its master’s request, but the supposedly soulless conceptual intelligence bore no happiness. It could never understand emotion.(Volume 5)

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Just a minor nitpick, this statement doesn't actually say that magic is a concept. It states that magic can be defined as a power that can rewrite the law. The concept of X doesn't neccesarily talks about a literal concept, but what is/the definition of X depending on the context

---

Now, let's go back into the main topic. I'll believe that "Magic is an idea projected into reality" is kind of straightforward, since in the context Rimuru needed magic to interacts with abstract being such as demon. Magic can be categorized into skills, in which the latter is often said to be conceptual in nature. There're also statements that skills are manifestation of the desire of the user.

Does that mean Rapharl or Ciel is a Conceptual being ? Because it's an Ultimate skill with some type of Ego ?

Agree with the rest.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

agree pretty simple

 

[MrTim]

I agree, but for CM, you can add that thing with "Magic can also interfere with Fundamental Abstract Concepts" or was it from WN? I dont remember exactly

 

[Wikisource]

I agree with law manipulation and RW but I don't understand CM3? Can you explain more clearly?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

I agree with law manipulation and RW but I don't understand CM3? Can you explain more clearly?

Magic is an idea projected into reality
It uses the belief and desires of the humans to turn anything real

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Just a minor nitpick, this statement doesn't actually say that magic is a concept. It states that magic can be defined as a power that can rewrite the law. The concept of X doesn't neccesarily talks about a literal concept, but what is/the definition of X depending on the context

---

Now, let's go back into the main topic. I'll believe that "Magic is an idea projected into reality" is kind of straightforward, since in the context Rimuru needed magic to interacts with abstract being such as demon. Magic can be categorized into skills, in which the latter is often said to be conceptual in nature. There're also statements that skills are manifestation of the desire of the user.

Yeah exactly

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Thanks for input anyway as usual catpija

 

[Jozaysmith?]

I agree, but for CM, you can add that thing with "Magic can also interfere with Fundamental Abstract Concepts" or was it from WN? I dont remember exactly

That was never said even in WN bro

 

[Wikisource]

Maybe I neutral about CM3

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Also If everything goes trough rimuru and many others like Hinata should also gain Resistance against Reality Warping, Law Maniplation, CM3

They already have Resistance against magic might need to edit it.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Also If everything goes trough rimuru and many others like Hinata should also gain Resistance against Reality Warping, Law Maniplation, CM3

They already have Resistance against magic might need to edit it.

Again you should stop jumping to conclusions
The effect is something isnt the thing itself and thus you cant gain resistances this way

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Maybe I neutral about CM3

Why you neutral?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Does that mean Rapharl or Ciel is a Conceptual being ? Because it's an Ultimate skill with some type of Ego ?

Agree with the rest.

I agree on this one, and yes rapheal was already called a conceptual being

それは、本来起こり得ぬほどの極小確率の出来事。
延々と繰り返された試みへの、褒美であるかのように。
その成功により創造主(マスター)の願いを達成する可能性が高まったが、意思なきはずの概念知性には喜びはない。
感情を理解し得ぬ存在であるから。
……だがしかし。
感情を知らず、喜びもないはずなのに──何故か、満たされる。
そして、進化したその能力(スキル)で、再度、創造主(マスター)の願いを遂行する。
ただひたすらに、創造主(マスター)の願いの為に働く事こそが……あるいは……。

TRANSLATION:

It is an event with such an extremely low probability that it would never happen.
As if it were a reward for endless attempts.
Its success has increased the possibility of achieving the creator's (master's) wishes, but there is no joy in conceptual intelligence, which is supposed to have no will.
Because they are unable to understand emotions.
...However.
Even though I don't know emotions and shouldn't have any joy---for some reason, I feel satisfied.
Then, with that evolved ability (skill), once again carry out the wishes of the creator (master).
Simply working single-mindedly for the wishes of the Creator (Master) is... or...

 

[DeusExMachine001]

Again you should stop jumping to conclusions
The effect is something isnt the thing itself and thus you cant gain resistances this way

So what's this CRT gonna change?? If it's not gonna affect the effect of the magic then ?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

So what's this CRT gonna change?? If it's not gonna affect the effect of the magic then ?

Like for example
Disintegration is a magic ability right
Magic itslef is an idea which is implied to have massive effect on reality
Not the magic used
If you resist magic which is only ultimate skill users doing then thats the only thing that counts ig
Not neutrality of magic on magic

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Ohh only when elizhaa comes will i submit my argument on resistance