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Buhan Downgrade - Dragon Ball

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Tyri456

Tyri456

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This will be a very slightly and short downgrade, basically Buhan is rated at 2C for environmental destruction.

- this is wrong because it is nowhere implied to be able to destroy the whole cosmology whatsoever, the scan posted in the justification support me since it never mention cosmology or other realms being affected, and the dainzeshu actually confirms it is just the living world.

98-FF1-BAD-3-E60-49-C7-BE0-B-F5-BA2-E1-E0531.jpg


- So the 2C rating will be downgraded to High-3A With environmental destruction.

Also, it is just simple logic, if it is stated the space-warp was covering the living world then it is safe to assume that’s the range of the destruction.

There is no reason to assume that magically the after-life which is massively bigger than the living world would be destroyed out of nowhere.

especially when in the anime is never implied at all. No reason to inflate rating like that.
 
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Tyri456 said:
This will be a very slightly and short downgrade, basically Buhan is rated at 2C for environmental destruction.

but this is wrong because it is nowhere implied to be able to destroy the whole cosmology whatsoever, the scan posted in the justification support me since it never mention cosmology, and the dainzeshu actually confirms it is just the living world.

98-FF1-BAD-3-E60-49-C7-BE0-B-F5-BA2-E1-E0531.jpg


So the 2C rating will be downgraded to High-3A With environmental destruction.
Click to expand...
The space itself is covering the living world and destroying it, the macrocosm is getting destroyed by the consequences of the living world's destruction and thus it's counted as Environmental Destruction. The Daizenshuu refers to the macrocosm as 'the universe', and that's why he's 2-C
 
pineappleman said:
The space itself is covering the living world and destroying it, the macrocosm is getting destroyed by the consequences of the living world's destruction and thus it's counted as Environmental Destruction. The Daizenshuu refers to the macrocosm as 'the universe', and that's why he's 2-C
Click to expand...
Can you provide evidences that the whole macro cosmo would be destroyed?
 
The universe argument is very weak, because even Videl in the canon and dainzeshu compare “heaven“ with the universe which from her knowledge is the normal universe, so without proof or actual evidence that buhan would have destroyed everything, saying universe isn’t enough at all, especially given the dainzeshu mentioned the living world. This would lead to High3A as conservative rating.

there is no reason or evidence To put it as 2C.
 
pineappleman said:
Well yeah, the very scan that you posted is one of them. 'Macrocosm' is a fan-made term to highlight the DB universe's structure, in the Daizenshuu 'Universe' refers to the entire macrocosm.
Hence why it makes the distinction between the Living World and the Universe in there
Click to expand...
Well that doesn’t debunk my premise anyway. No evidence to treat it higher.

9810196-D-6558-479-C-9742-E667-F4-E9-B094.jpg


here for example universe is used to refer to the living World, so without actual evidence of buhan destroying everything then it is just a supposition without enough back up.

the dainzeshu mention he would have covered the living world with the chain dimensions reaction, so we should stick to that unless you can provide evidences of him affecting every realms.
 
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Tyri456 said:
the dainzeshu mention he would have covered the living world
Click to expand...
.. and destroyed the universe.
You are using the guidebook's statement, and that guidebook uses 'The Universe' to refer to the macrocosm. Context here is important.

In the guidebooks, the Universe is referred to as 'The Living World' while the macrocosm is usually referred to as 'The Universe'. You put forth a scan of Videl (a human who is not aware of the DB world's cosmology and therefore refers to the universe as well, the universe.)

So the Macrocosm is referred to in the show as 'The Universe' or 'The entire Universe' by characters aware of the cosmology, like the Kais or Earth's Guardian. And of course the same thing goes in the guidebooks as well, since they are aware of the DB verse's cosmological structure.

The proof for this is how the Kais refer to threats on the entire Macrocosm as threats on the Universe. This is apparent when you take a look at all the Macrocosm threats, (Buu/Omega Shenron/Beerus).
And how the guidebooks refer to the macrocosm as the universe because again, 'Macrocosm' is a fan-made term.
 
Yeah, I think Low 2-C Buuhan is more reasonable. Part of that is because the fight between SSG Goku and Beerus is treated as this new tier of power that can break apart the entire macrocosm and that even Super Vegito might not have been enough. And yet Buuhan is at that scale? Nah. And of course I think the logic presented in this thread is reasonable by itself.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Yeah, I think Low 2-C Buuhan is more reasonable. Part of that is because the fight between SSG Goku and Beerus is treated as this new tier of power that can break apart the entire macrocosm and that even Super Vegito might not have been enough. And yet Buuhan is at that scale? Nah. And of course I think the logic presented in this thread is reasonable by itself.
Click to expand...
It's a Toeiverse only feat, it doesn't apply to Super
 
CryoTheMayo said:
On a narrative-level it still makes more sense for Buuhan to be Low 2-C and then 2-C via chain reaction.
Click to expand...
On a narrative level, Zen-Oh being 2-B makes sense. Think on a practical level.
godofice said:
Buuhan should scale to Low 2-C for his AP by causing the 2-C chain reaction by covering the living world and then eventually destroy the universe might do that after this lol
Click to expand...
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
They should be size wise if they can crush an entire universe and if Buuhan would need to rip a hole that covers the Living World to pull it off (according to the Daizenshuu).
Click to expand...
Or maybe its the number of dimensions involved instead of the size, after all we know that there are many other separated dimensions that exist within the macrocosmo.

And since there is no statements about the size of those dimensions, we can't fully assume the feat to be 2-C.
 
Afaik the afterlife and Kai realm are the only other dimensions in the macrocosm atm (might change since I saw a CRT adding the rosat to it) and both are accepted as universal
 
Nullflowerblush said:
On a narrative level, Zen-Oh being 2-B makes sense. Think on a practical level.
Click to expand...
Zeno is 36 2-C or 54 2-C, isn't he? I saw these threads were scaling with that sort of logic with the GoD's fighting pre-ToP being, what? 9 2-C? Whereas Beerus and Champa were 6 2-C and Goku and Beerus clashing were 3 2-C? The impression I was getting is that each magnitude was considered an 'infinite' gap between destroying one macrocosm to two macrocosms and so on.

So no, Zeno doesn't need to be 2-B to work with my logic or the logic these revisions have been establishing. The baseline for SSG Goku is 3 2-C (1 Macrocosm) while Zeno would be something like 54 2-C (18 Macrocosms) with each 'macrocosm' being an infinite gap. So Buuhan is capable of destroying 1 Macrocosm via chain reaction from flooding the macrocosm, a feat vastly inferior to SSG Goku who can destroy the macrocosm via the shockwaves of his own power.

If we said 'Buuhan is 2-C!' then you're effectively arguing Buuhan's feat is on par with SSG Goku or Omega Shenron. Which makes no sense with how it was presented in the DBS Anime or GT. Both of which being Toei productions like the Z anime. If Toei presents destroying the macrocosm as so incredible that it's a new level of power then Buuhan being that level is nonsensical narratively. It's clearly not the intention of the writers.

So, I consider my logic to still be sound.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
On a narrative level, Zen-Oh being 2-B makes sense. Think on a practical level.

Click to expand...
Cover the LIVING WORLD and then destory the universe
SSJGeminiJJ said:
They should be size wise if they can crush an entire universe and if Buuhan would need to rip a hole that covers the Living World to pull it off (according to the Daizenshuu).
Click to expand...
he crushes the living world and then it destroys the universe so yeah
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I dunno if we should even use the Daizenshuu for Outside Space tbh, it kinda contradicts what's said in the anime
Click to expand...
bruh no it doesn’t his attack covers the living universe which caused the wall between dimensions to break down and eventually destroy the universe
Stefano4444 said:
Or maybe its the number of dimensions involved instead of the size, after all we know that there are many other separated dimensions that exist within the macrocosmo.

And since there is no statements about the size of those dimensions, we can't fully assume the feat to be 2-C.
Click to expand...
The dimensions are referring to the dimensional walls separating the realms
SSJGeminiJJ said:
Afaik the afterlife and Kai realm are the only other dimensions in the macrocosm atm (might change since I saw a CRT adding the rosat to it) and both are accepted as universal
Click to expand...
Yeah there’s a subspace between the dimensions of the macrocosm which have the Sugoroku space and RoSaTs
 
CryoTheMayo said:
If we said 'Buuhan is 2-C!' then you're effectively arguing Buuhan's feat is on par with SSG Goku or Omega Shenron. Which makes no sense with how it was presented in the DBS Anime or GT. Both of which being Toei productions like the Z anime. If Toei presents destroying the macrocosm as so incredible that it's a new level of power then Buuhan being that level is nonsensical narratively. It's clearly not the intention of the writers.

So, I consider my logic to still be sound.
Click to expand...
Again, it wasn't presented in the Super Anime, it's a Toeiverse only feat. As for GT, no villain from Buuhan to Omega Shenron has had the motive to or tried to destroy the Universe yet alone the solar system, so your argument is not valid.


Nullflowerblush said:
That doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
It literally does. You just aren't answering because it'd get rid of your argument.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
His attack

Creates portals

To alternate dimensions

That flood the universe

And crush it

Watch the anime

Look at the scans
Click to expand...
His attack covers the living world wiping out the universe the universe referring to the entire db universe which consists of the afterlife kaioshin realm and living world and this is supported by the anime telling us dimensions are falling ontop of each other from Buu disrupting the dimensional walls there’s no portals I’ve watched the anime

The scan also quite literally differneitiates the living world and universe
 
pineappleman said:
Again, it wasn't presented in the Super Anime, it's a Toeiverse only feat. As for GT, no villain from Buuhan to Omega Shenron has had the motive to or tried to destroy the Universe yet alone the solar system, so your argument is not valid.
Click to expand...
And the DBS Anime was produced by Toei and there are no villains who can destroy the macrocosm in Pre-Super Toei until Omega Shenron, who is treated as the ultimate super duper powerful villain who embodies every other foe faced before. The only other character on that level I can think of in Toei is Janemba.

Again, Buuhan and Omega Shenron are nowhere near the same level and Buuhan only performs this feat via a chain reaction of his power, not his own power destroying the macrocosm itself. Whereas Omega Shenron's own power would destroy the macrocosm by itself.

We can claim that any villain after Buuhan can flood the universe to destroy it. Can they destroy the universe without flooding it? Not until Omega Shenron.

I don't really think I'm gonna budge on this. I don't see the logic against it. So I'm going to keep my vote stubbornly there.
 
Buuhan covering the living world would be range, not AP, his AP would probably be whatever scale it takes to damage dimensional boundaries (not sure where this lies).
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Unquantifiable normally, around 4-B in Dragon Ball (via Super Buu... Which he already scales above)

Maybe High 3-A? Standards are weird around these parts.
Click to expand...
Well technically, the living world is infinite, so covering the entire world and destroying it's boundaries allowing other realms to collide, should probably be high 3-A yea, or just as left as unquantifiable since it's basically useless combat wise and solely exists to destroy a universe itself , and would only scale to the vice shout
 
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