Broly V.S Jiren

[PrettyVixenGirl]

There ain't proof beerus is stronger than belmod. Or any other GoD. I think Heles is stronger. Jk. But still. I'm well aware beerus is a fan favorite so he can easily be retconned or hyped higher than others tho. That much is for sure.

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

theres evidence leaning towards beerus being stronger, like him fighting all the GoDs and winning. which was stated in the manga.


There is however, nothing giving jiren the edge on being stronger while there is more than leans towards broly being stronger. saying he's weaker than FP and LB jiren makes no sense. you made that up without an actual evidence

 

[BakiHanma18]

theres evidence leaning towards beerus being stronger, like him fighting all the GoDs and winning. which was stated in the manga.


There is however, nothing giving jiren the edge on being stronger while there is more than leans towards broly being stronger. saying he's weaker than FP and LB jiren makes no sense. you made that up without an actual evidence

Except Belmod took a dive and took no damage from the entire ffa, as I already said

LB Jiren being on par with the same MUI that made all the other GoDs stand in respect for, FP Jiren casually being stronger than Toppo, that is all leaning toward Jiren. Broly has one iffy statement.

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

What baki said and more

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

LB Jiren being on par with the same MUI that made all the other GoDs stand in respect for, MUI was stronger than LB jiren, gods respected MUI because a mortal reached the level of the gods, and reached a form that no god was able to obtain,great. this has nothing to do with LB jiren, yes jiren reached the level of the gods, broly has already done this, FP jiren is clearly not whats up for debate considering broly destroyed a much stronger goku and vegeta MORE EASILY than jiren did against goku and vegeta.

that is all leaning toward Jiren. Broly has one iffy statement.

none of this actually leans toward jiren, jiren was on par with a form that was on the level of the gods, broly is on the level of the gods, how is that a lean?


what is actually a lean, is the fact that the every movie villain is stronger than the villains that were previously beaten. it makes no sense for this to be an exception.

Everyone is stronger than when they fought in the T.O.P, this is a lean

and "probably stronger than beerus"


while we havent had much to say for jiren other than stronger than his god, who isnt as powerful as beerus. (though this one is iffy since we don't really know how much stronger each is, and we can't really debate this one anymore)

 

[BakiHanma18]

The only reason Broly was even a threat is because Goku couldn't even access UI, let alone MUI. If Goku had MUI, it most likely would've been a non-issue.

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

i highly doubt that, UI wouldnt have been enough considering FP jiren could dispatch UI, and FP broly is stronger than FP jiren. Goku with MUI possibly couldve been enough, though both of this is irrelevant since broly still beats the same thing jiren beat, and may possibly lose against the same thing that could beat jiren. being the same strength as broly, wouldnt have been enough, being slightly stronger wouldnt have been enough, dont forget his constantly rising power. which is yet another thing to give him an edge over jiren. along with him being an exceptionally fast adapting fighter. The only reason gogeta was able to win was 1. gogeta was massively stronger, not only stronger than broly but stronger than MUI.

oh yeah one thing i forgot, gogeta's fight with broly was causing dimensions to start acting up, which i would say is a far greater feat than "shaking the void" especially since UI was capable of doing this. same with kefla, who was stronger than UI(though only lost do to UI being able to dodge everything) so that isnt really much of a feat, we never saw anyone causing tears in dimensions and reality just by fighting before.

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

If goku went MUI the movie would of been short which is why he aint use it. Also didn't someone do that by screaming before? Buu?

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

Nope, not by fighting. They werent able to do that with pure strength, it was something to do with pitch. eitherway thats opening an entirely new can of worms

they were actually travelling through dimensions from pure power alone. something jiren hasnt been able to do.

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

regardless I havent been hearing any actual feats or statements from you two, only speculations or headcannon. what feats do you have for jiren?

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

That feat is highly unquantifiable. Beerus was surprised Anilaza could warp space with his punches or something? That feat is cool, but i'll leave it at that if i'm being real. Yet characters who can't do that with sheer strength can beat and harm him. That dimension feat does not work unfortuneatly

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

regardless I havent been hearing any actual feats or statements from you two, only speculations or headcannon. what feats do you have for jiren?

You just ignore everything we say and you put headcanon in front of it. When not a single thing you have said thus far can be proven. From Beerus only having incomplete UI, him being stronger than Bel, and just about everything else. That's why i'm not actually trying. Just pointing out any major flaws with anything new you try to bring up. You the one with an ocean of assumptions right now. I'm not gunna reply to everything tho. Again, which is why this thread is pointless.

 

[BakiHanma18]

You just ignore everything we say and you put headcanon in front of it. When not a single thing you have said thus far can be proven. From Beerus only having incomplete UI, him being stronger than Bel, and just about everything else. That's why i'm not actually trying. Just pointing out any major flaws with anything new you try to bring up. You the one with an ocean of assumptions right now. I'm not gunna reply to everything tho. Again, which is why this thread is pointless.

Accurate

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

The worse part is goku said probably too. Which doesn't even say he is. But everyone assumes he is. Cause if he really aint above beerus, that looks really bad for broly. All of this debating has been under the impression Broly is above beerus when that probably aint true. So yea.

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

regardless I havent been hearing any actual feats or statements from you two, only speculations or headcannon. what feats do you have for jiren?

You just ignore everything we say and you put headcanon in front of it. When not a single thing you have said thus far can be proven. From Beerus only having incomplete UI, him being stronger than Bel, and just about everything else. That's why i'm not actually trying. Just pointing out any major flaws with anything new you try to bring up. You the one with an ocean of assumptions right now. I'm not gunna reply to everything tho. Again, which is why this thread is pointless.

No other god was said to have incomplete UI, or even hinted at. the fact that beerus was STATED to have fought every GoD and come out on top.(which would include belmod) means he would be stronger than him right? LB jiren was only slightly stronger than belmod. quite a few things i said can be proven allow me to RESTATE them, you know, the ones you ignored.


every movie villain is stronger than the villains that were previously beaten. it makes no sense for this to be an exception.

Everyone is stronger than when they fought in the T.O.P, this is a lean. and "probably stronger than beerus", you can look at it as just hype, but that would still mean Broly is around beerus' power if not greater. Broly constantly gets stronger as he fights, broly's fight with gogeta literally caused them to travel through dimensions with pure power. Broly adapts exceptionally fast. all this stuff? can't be proven?

once again, you didnt give any feats. im not ignoring, you arent saying giving. Instead of ignoring the question, how about actually answering it.


What feats do you have for jiren that would place him above broly? actual feats. not speculation.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Jiren before breaking his limit was able to hold his own against an onslaught from SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK20x Goku is, in my opinion, one of Jiren's more solid feats that can transfer over to Broly, although Broly fought weaker forms (normal blue), but they had higher base forms (zenkais and training), so there's still an element of speculation.

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

There can't be an absolute, definied winner of this sense its mostly gonna be speculation, and it seems the DBS creators are trying to keep it that way so they don't make anyone seem weaker, thats the deal with beerus, broly, and jiren. no one ever flat out says whos stronger than who, the best we ever got out of these 3 was a "probably".

best we can do is try to stack up evidence. i wouldnt really recommend most DBS youtube channels for this considering a lot of them are quite biased. and i mean quite. and there are some people who have never even seen DBS and assume "higher tier means no matter how strong they get the higher always win" and disgregards actual logic.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I can see what you're saying, I just don't know personally. First of all, I think (this isn't necessarily true, but is in the realm of true, or somewhere close to the truth) that Jiren fighting at Full Power and holding off Evolution and Blue 20x is equal to fighting the normal Blue Goku and Vegeta die to their Zenkais and training after the tournament. That said, FP Jiren was on par with them. FP Broly absolutely dominated them. So imo FP Broly bs FP Jiren, Broly wins, but Jiren's Limit Breaker form seemed so far beyond anything Evolution and 20x Blue could even come close to attaining, if it was LB Jiren vs FP Broly, I'd have to believe Jiren takes it

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

akira made sure to keep us from getting a direct clear answer, so we cant really say for LB jiren vs FP broly. however, if the battle ever takes a while, or in the future, broly will definitely be stronger and come out on top. LB jiren would constantly get more tired as FP broly got stronger. rewatching the fight, broly did indeed hold his own quiet a bit against gogeta SSB. but that final attacked looked like it wouldve ended him had it hit.

but looking back at the fight none of goku or vegeta's attacks even hurt broly FP in the slightest, while they were still giving jiren a little bit of trouble. broly shrugged off everything that wasnt from gogeta. i can't see LB jiren tanking the hits the same way though. Broly fought gogeta in super saiyan and was losing at first then eventually got the point where he was even, and then he started winning they clashed and broke reality, then Broly started destroying gogeta forcing him to use SSB.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

@Ka$aJ1zo

At the end of the battle Jiren was weak and was still taking on Goku, Frieza and Android 17. And that was SSB evolved Vegeta who was fighting Jiren whom can easily keep up with SSB Kaoiken Goku and didn't supressed Jiren destroyed Goku SSB Kaoiken's Uinverse 7 Spirit Bomb with ease

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

jiren was weak, but he didnt do nearly as much fighting as goku is so anyone being weak isnt a factor, not to mention frieza barely was alive after fighting toppo, although android 17 can't run out of stamina he can still be weakened. another thing to keep in mind is that it was NOT golden frieza, or any super saiyan form of goku, it was 4th form frieza, base goku, and 17, big difference.also theres a difference between "taking on" and "beating". he lost that fight so if anything that feat counts against him.

SSBE or SSBKKx20 don't forget both are much stronger by the time the broly movie takes place. spirit bomb isnt really much, he didnt destroy it, he pushed it back until it exploded onto goku, broly easily couldve done that.

SSBE and SSBKKx20 were giving jiren a bit of a hard time. im not saying they wouldve beaten LB jiren or even FP jiren but they were holding their ground, unlike when they went up against broly who completely bodied them

broly kept up, and then surpassed gogeta SSJ which is a much bigger feat than holding your own against SSBE vegeta and SSBKKx20 goku.

broly on the other hand, was holding up against gogeta up until the final moments on SSB. not to mention that form, is vastly stronger than MUI goku was.

one thing everyone keeps forgetting is that goku and vegeta are both much stronger than they were when they were in T.O.P, not strong enough to the point to take on jiren without MUI, but their SSB forms are stronger. something to keep in mind, jiren got tired fairly quickly in his fight that didnt even last a minute, on the other hand broly was full power fighting for over an hour and still wasnt even close to being tired, so he has more stamina, broly constantly got stronger, the rate was so fast that he immediately started catching up to SSJ gogeta and then surpassed him, and then started catching up to SSB before being finished. LB jiren is nowhere near strong enough to end broly that quickly, let alone actually be stronger than him(which is up for debate). so the fight would most likely result in LB jiren fighting him and then getting overpowered after a while.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

jiren was weak, but he didnt do nearly as much fighting as goku is so anyone being weak isnt a factor, not to mention frieza barely was alive after fighting toppo, although android 17 can't run out of stamina he can still be weakened.
another thing to keep in mind is that it was NOT golden frieza, or any super saiyan form of goku, it was 4th form frieza, base goku, and 17, big difference.also theres a difference between "taking on" and "beating". he lost that fight so if anything that feat counts against him.

SSBE or SSBKKx20 don't forget both are much stronger by the time the broly movie takes place. spirit bomb isnt really much, he didnt destroy it, he pushed it back until it exploded onto goku, broly easily couldve done that.

SSBE and SSBKKx20 were giving jiren a bit of a hard time. im not saying they wouldve beaten LB jiren or even FP jiren but they were holding their ground, unlike when they went up against broly who completely bodied them

broly kept up, and then surpassed gogeta SSJ which is a much bigger feat than holding your own against SSBE vegeta and SSBKKx20 goku.

broly on the other hand, was holding up against gogeta up until the final moments on SSB. not to mention that form, is vastly stronger than MUI goku was.

one thing everyone keeps forgetting is that goku and vegeta are both much stronger than they were when they were in T.O.P, not strong enough to the point to take on jiren without MUI, but their SSB forms are stronger. something to keep in mind, jiren got tired fairly quickly in his fight that didnt even last a minute, on the other hand broly was full power fighting for over an hour and still wasnt even close to being tired, so he has more stamina, broly constantly got stronger, the rate was so fast that he immediately started catching up to SSJ gogeta and then surpassed him, and then started catching up to SSB before being finished. LB jiren is nowhere near strong enough to end broly that quickly, let alone actually be stronger than him(which is up for debate). so the fight would most likely result in LB jiren fighting him and then getting overpowered after a while.

So you're telling me Jiren isn't going to get stronger after TOP?

 

[PrettyVixenGirl]

lul

 

[BakiHanma18]

I actually wondered that myself, but since he doesn't make an appearance after the TOP, and any boost he'd get from training is truly unquantifiable, we have to use TOP Jiren (who I still think rocks Broly to his core in LB form)

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

It hasnt been confirmed that jiren gets stronger, or even plans on training. so we use TOP jiren. like baki said, we can't estimate how much he would gain, unlike broly who we saw get MUCH stronger at an alarming rate just from his first fight he ever had.

 

[Kople700]

This basically turned into general discussion. Should I change the tag or keep it under V.S Thread

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

This debate is pretty pointless but I wouldn't change it just yet

 

[Plasmicc]

Jiren wins. Broly is only said to might have surpassed Beerus, while Jiren, not even in his hidden power state, was stated numerous times to have surpassed GoD level, including Beerus. Again, this was before his hidden power. So full power Jiren would logically be above GoD level. Yet MUI Goku bodies the same full power Jiren that was speculated to surpass all GoDs with no difficulty. So yes, MUI Goku and Limit Breaker Jiren are likely far beyond GoD level.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Whats the vote count?

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

Jiren was never stated to "surpass god level" only to surpass a god, which is singular meaning his god, quite a lot of people keep misunderstanding this part, and looking at feats broly has quite a lot more that would put him over jiren. That and following the logic of DBZ/DBS where movie villains>series villains.

 

[BakiHanma18]

To be fair, that's a false equivalency fallacy. Just because DBZ movie villains were stronger than DBZ series villains, doesn't mean the same is true for Super. Doesn't mean you're wrong, just means that argument is wrong

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Jiren was never stated to "surpass god level" only to surpass a god, which is singular meaning his god, quite a lot of people keep misunderstanding this part, and looking at feats broly has quite a lot more that would put him over jiren. That and following the logic of DBZ/DBS where movie villains>series villains.

That's not true.

 

[BakiHanma18]

OHHHHHHH SHIT

 

[Ponkpunk]

@Ka$aJ1zo lmao jiren is obviously above GoD

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

Jiren was never stated to "surpass god level" only to surpass a god, which is singular meaning his god, quite a lot of people keep misunderstanding this part, and looking at feats broly has quite a lot more that would put him over jiren. That and following the logic of DBZ/DBS where movie villains>series villains.

That's not true.

oh goody looks like its in the same exact situation with broly. "PERHAPS"

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

@Ka$aJ1zo lmao jiren is obviously above GoD

with what evidence? Best we have now is still a "perhaps". which still doesnt change who wins considering even without this broly has more actual evidence (as provided above, im not gonna keep repeating it)

 

[Lgamer099_99]

That's not true.
oh goody looks like its in the same exact situation with broly. "PERHAPS"

This is Full Power Jiren, not Super Full Power/ Burning Warrior Jiren

So...

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

so? that changes nothing, we dont know how much stronger he got. and he wasnt saying that very moment, he was talking about jiren entirely. regardless, that still changes nothing since both are being compared to GoDs and above GoDs. it's clear akira is trying to keep from saying one is stronger than the other. Beerus Broly and Jiren are all around the same power. And it seems he's being very careful making sure there isnt anything to say one is stronger than the other.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

It depends if both are bloodlusted then Jiren wins if they are in character Jiren might have an issue unless he takes him out with a single strong move right from the get go

 

[Ka$aJ1zo]

If both bloodlusted what says jiren wins? Broly was attacking not going for the kill. And i doubt jiren could use a move strong enough for that. we havent seen any special ability or attack he has that would allow that. Broly would just keep getting stronger until he overpowered jiren. seems a lot more likely than jiren randoming forming an attack we've never seen him do. even if he did theres no gaurantee it would kill someone that strong.