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Broly V.S Jiren

Jiren IS stronger than his GoD, and im not talking about goku's statement

Shueisha's Saikyo, stated this, not goku, goku only stated probably as strong as beerus. which would lead us to believe he's around the strength of beerus, but not strong enough for him to absolute be sure if he's stronger or not. and if he's not sure, than someone weaker than broly would definitely be weaker than beerus,.NO ONE said jiren was stronger than beerus. Or "Stronger than all GoDs" only that jiren was stronger than belmod, his GoD. that entire statement doesnt actually lead anywhere in this.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
Ka$aJ1zo said:
So? An actual confirmation > what you gather from the anime. heck when gogeta and vegito were stated to be the same strength, that went against all scaling and everything we've learned about them. but guess what? too bad. "Frankly, the enemy Goku and co. are up against in this movie is the strongest" seeing as it's said multiple times. It's a confirmation.

and even moreso every time a movie has been released, the enemy in the movie always ended up being stronger than everything in the series at that point in time
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Okay but Goku's statement (and he wasn't even sure about it) < the statements of Shin, Whis, all the guides, etc. Also, they clarified that Gogeta and Vegito were equal in a guide, the same place where they confirmed Jiren to be stronger than the GoD.
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Bro, even Whis didn't confirm that Jiren is higher than all Gods he said "perhaps even higher"
 
There isnt really anything supporting jiren actually being stronger than jiren other than "i feel like he should be". or a few things that may have been misinterperted or taken out of context.
 
Wasn't jiren compared to being above a god of destruction while not even showing his aura yet? And he made ol boy beerus sweat by flexing. But for some beerus is an exception when all God of destructions are comparable except candidates
 
No, like i said "misinterperted". Jiren was stated to be stronger than HIS GoD. no one else. Meaning someone like beerus, who is stronger than belmod, is still stronger than beerus.

being "above a GoD" is singular. meaning above his god, or there is a god that he is above. not he is above all gods. there are multiple times in the series where this is reinforced.
 
Ka$aJ1zo said:
No, like i said "misinterperted". Jiren was stated to be stronger than HIS GoD. no one else. Meaning someone like beerus, who is stronger than belmod, is still stronger than beerus.

being "above a GoD" is singular. meaning above his god, or there is a god that he is above. not he is above all gods. there are multiple times in the series where this is reinforced.
Click to expand...
Ultra Instinct 1 Goku was stated to "possibly" rival Beerus. And Mastered Ultra Instinct is flat out stated to be superior to Beerus. Jiren's hidden power scales to Mastered UI. Jiren should be stronger than Beerus who is amongst the strongest GoD.
 
Veroniica Lodgee said:
Wasn't jiren compared to being above a god of destruction while not even showing his aura yet? And he made ol boy beerus sweat by flexing. But for some beerus is an exception when all God of destructions are comparable except candidates
Click to expand...
Most of people misunderstand Whis here, Whis was thinking that Jiren who was far from his full power in his full power he will be like a God, perhaps even stronger.
 
I dont think Broly SSJ can really win against Jiren. Frieza In episode 127 lost consciousness.

He should at least be stronger than full power Jiren because Frieza got cooked by both.
 
ChocomilkAlex said:
Ka$aJ1zo said:
No, like i said "misinterperted". Jiren was stated to be stronger than HIS GoD. no one else. Meaning someone like beerus, who is stronger than belmod, is still stronger than beerus.

being "above a GoD" is singular. meaning above his god, or there is a god that he is above. not he is above all gods. there are multiple times in the series where this is reinforced.
Click to expand...
Ultra Instinct 1 Goku was stated to "possibly" rival Beerus. And Mastered Ultra Instinct is flat out stated to be superior to Beerus. Jiren's hidden power scales to Mastered UI. Jiren should be stronger than Beerus who is amongst the strongest GoD.
Click to expand...
MUI was NEVER stated to be stronger than beerus, niether was UI stated to rival beerus. like i said "MISINTERPERTED". The actual form was compared to beerus, not the strength or power of it. beerus hadnt fully unlocked ultra instinct. ultra instinct was refered to being a power that was difficult for even the gods to obtain, this is where he was compared to beerus, someone else who already had it. Mastered Ultra Instinct was everyone going crazy because a mere mortal had achieved the form that no other god has,including beerus.
 
Beerus is stronger? I don't recall this, however.. Comparable does not mean a fight between two characters would be stalemate. It means the strength between the two can be compared. All of the gods of destruction are comparable, meaning they would all be able to fight each other and it would be called a good fight. Jiren was hyped above a God of destruction, that probably isn't even the weakest. It's only assumed that for Broly's sake imo. Even if you say beerus is stronger, being hyped above GoD tier at casual levels speaks endlessly more volumes than brol who is a maybe. Even if beerus is stronger than Bel, they all are comparable, meaning the strength is around the same, even if beerus would win 8/10. That being said, if jiren is getting above God hype at casual level's while broly is a maybe at seeing his full power than i don't think broly can even beat a full power jiren, let alone the form that was equal to MUI. So i think broly get's beat Mid dif
 
jiren was never hyped above the power of the gods though. he was never stated or hyped to be stronger than all of the gods. you keep using "a god" and that is what keeps confusing you. he's was stated to be stronger than HIS god, and hyped to be on par with the gods. which, if he's stronger than his own. is common sense. Beerus is still stronger. Goku never compared jiren to being as strong as beerus, let alone "probably as strong" as he did with broly, meaning broly would be even stronger.

this isnt about what you think. whether you think it or not, there isnt a shred of evidence leading towards jiren being stronger, while multiple lean towards broly being stronger. not to mention how in every movie the main enemy is ALWAYS stronger than the enemies that were beaten before it.
 
YukaSama4 said:
Veroniica Lodgee said:
Wasn't jiren compared to being above a god of destruction while not even showing his aura yet? And he made ol boy beerus sweat by flexing. But for some beerus is an exception when all God of destructions are comparable except candidates
Click to expand...
Most of people misunderstand Whis here, Whis was thinking that Jiren who was far from his full power in his full power he will be like a God, perhaps even stronger.
Click to expand...
I am aware of this way of thinking. However the perhaps surpassed is for that unknown full power. He was already seen on GOD tier while glaring the spirit bomb. The maybe is for him not trying and displaying so much power that rivals a god of destruction. It's pretty obvious. He was getting GOD hype that early while extremely casual, nothing changes
 
Veroniica Lodgee said:
YukaSama4 said:
Veroniica Lodgee said:
Wasn't jiren compared to being above a god of destruction while not even showing his aura yet? And he made ol boy beerus sweat by flexing. But for some beerus is an exception when all God of destructions are comparable except candidates
Click to expand...
Most of people misunderstand Whis here, Whis was thinking that Jiren who was far from his full power in his full power he will be like a God, perhaps even stronger.
Click to expand...
I am aware of this way of thinking. However the perhaps surpassed is for that unknown full power. He was already seen on GOD tier while glaring the spirit bomb. The maybe is for him not trying and displaying so much power that rivals a god of destruction. It's pretty obvious. He was getting GOD hype that early while extremely casual, nothing changes
Click to expand...
No LOL, Whis was expecting that Jiren was far from his Full Power so he thought that in his FP he is on the level of God perhaps even stronger.

Even Toei Animation stated that Jiren FP is on the level of God of Destruction.
 
Ka$aJ1zo said:
jiren was never hyped above the power of the gods though. he was never stated or hyped to be stronger than all of the gods. you keep using "a god" and that is what keeps confusing you. he's was stated to be stronger than HIS god, and hyped to be on par with the gods. which, if he's stronger than his own. is common sense. Beerus is still stronger. Goku never compared jiren to being as strong as beerus, let alone "probably as strong" as he did with broly, meaning broly would be even stronger.
this isnt about what you think. whether you think it or not, there isnt a shred of evidence leading towards jiren being stronger, while multiple lean towards broly being stronger. not to mention how in every movie the main enemy is ALWAYS stronger than the enemies that were beaten before it.
Click to expand...
Goku never compared Jiren to beerus? Why does this matter when whis, a being far more intellgient and knowledgeable than goku compared jiren to a GOD.

I say God, because it means God of destruction. You are saying "His God" like that means anything in the slightest when i say the God of destructions are comparable like 20 times. It doesn't matter who he is compared to if they are all comparable. Meaning you can pick any single God of destruction and have jiren be hyped above one at casual levels, and that would still mean jiren is above beerus even if he is sorta stronger than the God they are compared to.

Whis is smart, he said a god of destruction, not just "His own." Which generalizes ALL of them. It does not matter i beerus is stronger. God of destructions are comparable, and thus any comparison to one other than a newbie candidate is valid to be used against all of them.

My issue is beerus and broly. I do not care in the slightest if every villain is stronger than the last. This way of thinking is silly. Everyone after beerus is God tier i guess. Feats matter more than some "Every villain is stronger than the last." Okay, do you have any information between the strength gap between TOP, up to broly? Persoanlly i think that's the only evidence the broly side has, which in itself is flawed. As goku surpassed jiren with some new form he never even used again. Which hints said form is still beyond the likes of someone like broly. I think jiren wins at 60% strength
 
We still dont know about Belmod full power, he didnt fight with the gods in the manga.. maybe he is week, maybe he is smart. so we cant say he is stronger than beerus or weeker. but we can confirm that Beerus is one of the strongest GOD.
 
He wasnt at the level of GOD this is the last time Im going to say it he was weeker than the Gods but he wasnt at full power so Whis thought in his full power he will be equal to Gods or may be stronger.
 
Also, I find it extremely odd to say that Jiren at full power is only GoD level, when Toppo with his GoD transformation is stated to be on the level of the GoDs, but FP Jiren, not even limit breaker Jiren, would beat Toppo mid-low diff
 
goku never compared Jiren to beerus? Why does this matter when whis, a being far more intellgient and knowledgeable than goku compared jiren to a GOD. This matters because all gods, arent the same. being stronger than your GoD doesnt make you stronger than ever GoD. theres a big difference in power between the weakest GoD, and the strongest GoD.

I say God, because it means God of destruction. (((You are saying "His God" like that means anything in the slightest when i say the God of destructions are comparable like 20 times.)))((( It doesn't matter who he is compared to if they are all comparable. Meaning you can pick any single God of destruction and have jiren be hyped above one at casual levels, and that would still mean jiren is above beerus even if he is sorta stronger than the God they are compared to. )))

"His god" actually means a lot. saying they 'are comparable" doesnt instantly mean being as strong or stronger than one means you are as strong or stronger than beerus. Comparable doesnt mean equal, so it DOES matter who they are compared to. golden frieza was able to take control of the power Sidra used to destroy him, while he struggled greatly and took everything he had to do the same to Toppo's, who was using the power of a GoD. would you say Toppo is stronger than beerus just because he used the power of a GoD and was comparable to a GoD? but wait, didnt SSBE vegeta beat him? so doesnt that make HIM stronger than beerus? No.so that would NOT mean jiren is above beerus. being stronger than one god, doesnt make you stronger than all

Whis is smart, he said a god of destruction, not just "His own." (((Which generalizes ALL of them.)))((( It does not matter i beerus is stronger. God of destructions are comparable,))) and (((thus any comparison to one other than a newbie candidate is valid to be used against all of them.)))

he didnt generalize ALL of them. any comparison to one is NOT a valid to be used against them all. you do realize there is a large gap between the strongest ones and the weakest ones right? quit making stuff up. with no evidence.

My issue is beerus and broly. I do not care in the slightest if every villain is stronger than the last. This way of thinking is silly. Everyone after beerus is God tier i guess. Feats matter more than some "Every villain is stronger than the last." Okay, do you have any information between the strength gap between TOP, up to broly? (((Persoanlly i think )))that's the only evidence the broly side has, which in itself is flawed. As goku surpassed jiren with some new form he never even used again. (((Which hints said form is still beyond the likes of someone like broly))).(((I think ))) (((jiren wins at 60% strength.)))

Every villain being stronger than the last, isnt something i just made up, you can look at literally any of them, and the newer villain is stronger than the one they beat previously. this would place broly, above jiren. even if we don't know exactly by how much. goku didnt use the form, because he used fusion to create gogeta, and SSB gogeta is MUCH stronger than MUI, no debate there. and really. 60% strength? you're pulling numbers out of your ass. and just using your opinion, you like jiren more so you think he's stronger, everything youve said was either something you chose to take to your liking. or some opinion. ive gone and put ((( ))) around everything that youve either made up, used headcannon or used your opinion for.
 
You have no evidence that beerus is the strongest God and Belmod is the weakest. I'm not the one assuming here and making things up.

Again, you fail to understand my point. Jiren got hype above a God of destruction at his weakest casual state. So even if beerus was stronger than belmod, the fact that jiren got hype above one while not trying is huge. This makes him superior to beerus by mere logic. This is the most important thing which you aint adress at all.

Are you just not understanding what i mean? Also, what say's beerus is even above belmod. Y'all are giving beerus unimaginable hype beyond my understanding, all because it's convenient for broly's sake. God's are comparable, otherwise there would be Classiifcations like a "Low tier God" or "Higher tier God" there is none, and the only thing they say is "Like a god of destruction." Meaning the strength is comparable regardless of where they are on the high and low spectrum.

I ain't wanna use toppo but i will. He is "No different from a god of destruction now" and he loses to vegeta who get's slapped by jiren. Jiren would beat toppo casually.

I'm not reading the last part, as it's irrelevant when we don't know much stronger goku and vegeta have gotten.

Anyway, broly get's mid diff. Nothing that was said changes my opinion
 
Also, this thread is pointless until more information is given, i'd appreicate if you would stop messaging about this as there it too much headcanon on either end
 
You have no evidence that beerus is the strongest God and Belmod is the weakest. I'm not the one assuming here and making things up.

I have no evidence, because i dont need any, because i never made that assumption, and yes, based on your previous sentences, you are making things up. Not once did i say beerus is the strongest and belmod is the weakest, I used the example of the strongest god being a lot stronger than the weakest to get it through your thick skull that they arent all the same strength, "level of the gods" doesnt mean being stronger than one is stronger than all, just that the gods themself were on a totally different level than anyone from dbz has ever known. and they are. them being "comparable to the gods" means they reached a new level of strength. which, they did, not that they're stronger than all of them.

Again, you fail to understand my point. Jiren got hype above a God of destruction at his weakest casual state. So even if beerus was stronger than belmod, the fact that jiren got hype above one while not trying is huge. This makes him superior to beerus by mere logic. This is the most important thing which you aint adress at all. He never got the hype to be above ALL gods of destructions, ONLY his own, didnt think i needed to address it because it was common sense and already stated. Jiren got a lot of hype, good for him, this isnt actually proving anything other than the fact that it's hype. The gods didnt think he was stronger than all of them, he got the hype because he was very strong for a mortal, and was a great threat towards any of the competing universes. so him being that strong would cause the GoDs to be worried.

Are you just not understanding what i mean? Also, what say's beerus is even above belmod. Y'all are giving beerus unimaginable hype beyond my understanding, all because it's convenient for broly's sake. God's are comparable, otherwise there would be Classiifcations like a "Low tier God" or "Higher tier God" there is none, and the only thing they say is "Like a god of destruction." Meaning the strength is comparable regardless of where they are on the high and low spectrum. Beerus is indeed stronger than belmod, i'm not gonna argue this with you since it's already been disscussed on another thread, multiple places, multiple channels. This is one of those things that should just be common knowledge at this point, if you really want it to be clear to yourself then look it up. Gods are comparable yes, but being as strong as one doesnt make you as strong as all, like i said, COMPARABLE DOESNT MEAN EQUAL. You complete ignored my example possibly because you didnt read it, or couldnt find a comeback for it. ALLOW ME TO RESTATE.

READ -"golden frieza was able to take control of the power Sidra used to destroy him, while he struggled greatly and took everything he had to do the same to Toppo's, who was using the power of a GoD. would you say Toppo is stronger than beerus just because he used the power of a GoD and was comparable to a GoD? but wait, didnt SSBE vegeta beat him? so doesnt that make HIM stronger than beerus? No.so that would NOT mean jiren is above beerus. being stronger than one god, doesnt make you stronger than all "- READ

I ain't wanna use toppo but i will. He is "No different from a god of destruction now" and he loses to vegeta who get's slapped by jiren. Jiren would beat toppo casually. by your logic, vegeta is stronger than beerus which he isnt, so you can't assume that just because jiren is stronger than toppo that he's stronger than beerus. you're making too many assumptions

I'm not reading the last part, as it's irrelevant when we don't know much stronger goku and vegeta have gotten. This is the problem, you choose what you do and don't want to hear, if he doesnt benefit your claim then you ignore it, this is why we arent getting anywhere, it's also because there are quite a lot of things that are common knowledge at this point that you just don't know such as beerus being stronger than belmod.
 
btw, last reply don't mean you right. I just don't feel like continuing due to lack of info. I already have a counter to what you said, i just don't care anymore. This sub sandwhich is more important
 
I can assume you don't know how beerus did in the manga, when it was basically a GoD ffa. Beerus and Quitela were the last 2 Gods of Destruction standing and were interrupted by the Grand Priest. Belmod may be strong, but the fact that he had to pull a "Mr. Satan" on us by faking out and pretending to be unconscious indicates Belmod wasn't confident that he could emerge as the victor.

that an the fact that beerus had incomplete ultra instinct, and belmod does not, should tell you how beerus is much stronger.
 
You don't continue due to your lack of info, not mine, you can't counter what ive said so you give up. It's ok to admit when you don't know something. youve lost this argument.
 
Cute, but you aren't archie Gotta love the whole last comment equals win. When i clearly said i dont want it to go on as it's pointless without more info. Okay, you win if that's the case
 
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