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Broly V.S Jiren

Ka$aJ1zo said:
I can assume you don't know how beerus did in the manga, when it was basically a GoD ffa. Beerus and Quitela were the last 2 Gods of Destruction standing and were interrupted by the Grand Priest. Belmod may be strong, but the fact that he had to pull a "Mr. Satan" on us by faking out and pretending to be unconscious indicates Belmod wasn't confident that he could emerge as the victor.

that an the fact that beerus had incomplete ultra instinct, and belmod does not, should tell you how beerus is much stronger.
Click to expand...
Belmod not wanting to participate could just be a character trait of his, not an indication of his strength. Also, where does it say that Belmod doesn't have any UI, and that specifically only Beerus, and not all the GoDs, has UI?
 
Beerus was the only god stated to have UI, Not to mention in the manga, no other god who participated, including beerus, had UI. seeing the fight in the manga you can make out that beerus is easily one of the strongest GoDs. Considering no one else in the fight had used it, we can assume they don't have it, including belmod. Regardless whether you defend belmod as many times as you like, everything points towards beerus being stronger, not just being stronger, but being stronger by a great amount being able to hold is own against multiple other GoDs at once when they all tried to gang up on him.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
Ka$aJ1zo said:
I can assume you don't know how beerus did in the manga, when it was basically a GoD ffa. Beerus and Quitela were the last 2 Gods of Destruction standing and were interrupted by the Grand Priest. Belmod may be strong, but the fact that he had to pull a "Mr. Satan" on us by faking out and pretending to be unconscious indicates Belmod wasn't confident that he could emerge as the victor.

that an the fact that beerus had incomplete ultra instinct, and belmod does not, should tell you how beerus is much stronger.
Click to expand...
Belmod not wanting to participate could just be a character trait of his, not an indication of his strength. Also, where does it say that Belmod doesn't have any UI, and that specifically only Beerus, and not all the GoDs, has UI?
Click to expand...
No one of them have shown it yet. except Beerus.
 
Want to point out that last part. One of my biggest pet peaves is when a character is fighting multiple people of similar level and they are automatically hyped above said ppl. When beerus was jumped out of spite, and not "He the strongest". It's impressive, but holding your own against mutliple beings isn't a sign of superiority. Depends on how it is delivered. If you beat them all that is convincng, beating multiple is too, but holding your own is not. A guy can probably get jumped by 3 people, and hold his own, doesn't mean he can beat them all individually. Holding your own is exactly that, holding your own.
 
The only ones remaining at the end were beerus and quitela, who were stopped by the grand priest. so excuse me for my wording, he "beat most of them" and didnt beat quitela simply because the fight had stopped due to time.
 
Not really claims or headcanon. You're just incorrect on most of these things and can't actually admit when you don't know something, or when you know you're clearly in the wrong.
 
Yeah... still thinking Jiren casually being referred to as possibly GoD tier makes him leagues above possibly above one of the strongest GoDs, but only at full power
 
^ this is clearly false, if he was meant to be stronger than every god, or even beerus, they wouldve stated "stronger than beerus" or "stronger than every god" or even "stronger than the gods" not "a god" which means one specific god.

in the end the isnt really anything that actually leads towards jiren being stronger, while broly still has his "probably stronger than beerus. we've never had anything from jiren lead to tell us that he's stronger or even could be.
 
^ this is clearly false, even if he's only stronger than Belmod, other than headcanon, there's no clear indication that Beerus is stronger than Belmod. It was never stated that Belmod was in the ffa because he was scared he'd lose, and Beerus has never beaten Belmod in a fight.
 
No not in the slightest, multiple things point towards beerus being stronger, such as, having UI. which would make him massively stronger than belmod, who doesnt have UI. anything you look at points at beerus being strong but there isnt a single thing that says belmod is, and it's pretty clear he isnt, especially if it's such a clear point that jiren is stronger than belmod, that would make beerus stronger to, that's not headcannon, basic logic. if 2 is greater than 1, and 3 is greater than 2, 3 is greater than 1.

and i don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about, Belmod WAS in the ffa, he pretended to be unconscious so he wouldnt have to fight. If he was stronger than beerus he wouldnt have needed to do that now would he.
 
Ka$aJ1zo said:
You have no argument other than "It doesnt specifically state this so it can't be true".
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That's funny, isn't your whole argument built off of specifically stated stuff, but somehow, it's impossible for Belmod to rival Beerus/have UI BECAUSE ITS NOT SPECIFICALLY STATED???
 
Anime and Manga As with all Gods of Destruction, Belmod is incredibly powerful, only being surpassed in his Universe by his angel/attendant Marcarita and Jiren. In the anime, he was implied by Whis to be stronger than Beerus.

In the manga, during the Zeno Expo, Goku and Giin believed that Belmod and the other Gods of Destruction would have been defeated - or possibly even killed if they were hit by Beerus' Sphere of Destruction. Belmod proved to be able to easily kick Sidra down, albeit he caught Sidra off-guard, still believing they were a team. Belmod is able to damage all of the Gods of Destruction by capturing them in Imprisonment Balls and attacking with Energy Cards. When he is attacked by Liqueur's Tail Energy Cannon Barrage, Belmod takes no damage from the assault. When the match comes to an end, it is revealed that Belmod faked being knocked down and had taken no damage over the course of the match. Top states that, based on combat skill alone, even Belmod is weaker than Jiren.

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Belmod
 
BakiHanma18 said:
Ka$aJ1zo said:
You have no argument other than "It doesnt specifically state this so it can't be true".
Click to expand...
That's funny, isn't your whole argument built off of specifically stated stuff, but somehow, it's impossible for Belmod to rival Beerus/have UI BECAUSE ITS NOT SPECIFICALLY STATED???
Click to expand...
you have no main point other than just trying to "1-up" me.

and still, no that isnt even close to the same thing, because there is NO EVIDENCE that leads towards any god besides beerus having UI. t

heres a difference between saying something isnt true because theres no evidence like me, and saying something isnt true because it wasnt specifically stated, even if there is actually evidence to lead towards one size, like you

and no my argument is built on actual evidence. and what would be logical. not just "what if" like you're doing. I say something is possible when there is evidence to support it even if it isnt actually stated. you have no evidence for belmod to have UI.
 
That thing Belmod used against the Gods wasnt too much this GOD who looks like Fox broke it easily. As I said you cant Prove that Belmod is stronger than Beerus or near from anime or manga.
 
You have got to be kidding me... there's no evidence in the positive that other GoDs have UI? There's also nothing suggesting Beerus is stronger than Belmod, which is the crux of your whole argument. You just assume that Beerus is stronger because he's the only one proven to have UI, ignoring Whis's implications that Belmod is stronger. Gogeta Blue doesn't have UI, is he weaker than MUI Goku?
 
YukaSama4 said:
That thing Belmod used against the Gods wasnt too much this GOD who looks like Fox broke it easily. As I said you cant Prove that Belmod is stronger than Beerus or near from anime or manga.
Click to expand...
Read the post where I C&P from the wiki
 
YukaSama4 said:
Yeah, I know. People are using what happened there because they are following Geekdom channel, he said that Jiren is stronger than Broly and Gogeta because UI Goku defeated Cumber easily and Vegito Blue Kaioken couldn't do it.
Click to expand...
No, Jiren was stated above Broly because Broly lacks any material to really support him being there outside of random materials and Goku's own thought process, with Goku saying Beerus+ tier Broly is WAY stronger than himself. Jiren however was already above the Gods of Destruction and almost all guides and statements confirm this. MUI Goku then proceeds to bully Jiren at his absolute full power, said full power Jiren being at least slightly stronger than Belmod if not to a higher amount since the attack he used on Goku was going to kill everyone there, forcing him to break his limits through anger.

Heroes was brought in as extra supporting evidence, though it's not needed as the manga reveals that post-Broly Goku and Vegeta consider Jiren to be far above them. That might not be perfect since the anime and manga are different but that's still DBS saying outright Jiren is the strongest guy around (especially since Gogeta used Completed Blue to bully Broly in the manga version.)
 
There's too much speculation here. Can you guys please stick to Broly v. Jiren? I know the GoD are sort of relevant to the scaling side of things but it's derailing the thread.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
You have got to be kidding me... there's no evidence in the positive that other GoDs have UI? There's also nothing suggesting Beerus is stronger than Belmod, which is the crux of your whole argument. You just assume that Beerus is stronger because he's the only one proven to have UI, ignoring Whis's implications that Belmod is stronger. Gogeta Blue doesn't have UI, is he weaker than MUI Goku?
Click to expand...
In the manga, where beerus fought off many of the other gods, and was only left with quitela when the grand priest called it to a stop. Is a feat, UI, is a feat. belmod, has no feats. Beerus, has feats. feats are evidence.

Gogeta blue is massively stronger than goku. so of course he's stronger than MUI goku. the only way belmod would be able to beat UI beerus would be for him to be massively stronger, just like when jiren beat UI goku and forced him to unlock MUI. belmod isnt. so belmod loses.
 
Sera EX said:
There's too much speculation here. Can you guys please stick to Broly v. Jiren? I know the GoD are sort of relevant to the scaling side of things but it's derailing the thread.
Click to expand...
Okay, sorry. I'll try to stay on topic, and I won't engage in anyone derailing
 
Also you think that link is credible? literally anyone can edit it. in the manga, it's stated that beerus took on all of the other GoDs and won. belmod won an arm wrestling match, he still doesnt beat beerus in a fight.
 
also we can't really continue jiren vs broly without involving the GoDs because they are just about the only thing we have to scale them off of other than broly requiring something stronger than MUI to lose and the fact that it takes place after the T.O.P where everyone is much stronger.
 
Ka$aJ1zo said:
Also you think that link is credible? literally anyone can edit it. in the manga, it's stated that beerus took on all of the other GoDs and won. belmod won an arm wrestling match, he still doesnt beat beerus in a fight.
Click to expand...
As per request from @Sera EX, I won't be engaging in anymore GoD derailing, and you should probably desist as well, or the thread will be closed
 
a big part we left out is the fact that broly was constantly adapting and getting stronger, if it takes full power jiren to fight full power broly, broly is going to come out on top. Not to mention this takes place after T.O.P where everyone has gotten stronger
 
No, Jiren was stated above Broly because Broly lacks any material to really support him being there outside of random materials and Goku's own thought process, with Goku saying Beerus+ tier Broly is WAY stronger than himself. Jiren however was already above the Gods of Destruction and almost all guides and statements confirm this. MUI Goku then proceeds to bully Jiren at his absolute full power, said full power Jiren being at least slightly stronger than Belmod if not to a higher amount since the attack he used on Goku was going to kill everyone there, forcing him to break his limits through anger.

Heroes was brought in as extra supporting evidence, though it's not needed as the manga reveals that post-Broly Goku and Vegeta consider Jiren to be far above them. That might not be perfect since the anime and manga are different but that's still DBS saying outright Jiren is the strongest guy around (especially since Gogeta used Completed Blue to bully Broly in the manga version.)

On top of this, FP Jiren vs FP Broly being even mean LB Jiren stomps FP Broly right out of the gate
 
Heros isnt cannon, or credible the entire thing is just fan service. they arent even made by the same people. maybe in heros jiren is massively stronger than broly but not in DBS.

also by FP jiren loses to FP broly, that isnt even, we were discussing both of the two at their strongest, LB vs FP broly. and seeing as full power broly continuously rises and that jiren was only slightly stronger than his god, while broly was probably stronger than beerus. who beats belmod. it's safe to say broly wins this fight. heck even if they were the same strength LB jiren would have to end it immedietly or broly would get too strong. Sense he doesnt actually know this about broly, and going off of the way he fought goku by holding back until he needed to use more, he would just allow broly to build up more and more strength until he eventually loses.
 
Doesn't seem like he was getting stronger after gogeta tho. Seemed to be the limit of his current str. Would prob have to train to go beyond. He's not infinite
 
nah it wasnt a limit, and i never said he was infinite, gogeta was so massively stronger than him he was about to finish him when broly was wished back to his planet. he was still getting stronger. don't use headcannon. Gogeta SSB was MUCH stronger than broly, however LB jiren, isnt.
 
There isn't even evidence that form is even above MUI my guy.


He is, since he's weaker than a FP jiren. So limit breaker is out of the question
 
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