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- #81
Ya, that's I linked it to the Timeline section of the Cosmology Blog since it's explained there.
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Blue And White Verse | Adding Cthulhu Universe Profiles | Civilization Levels
- Thread starter ActuallySpaceMan42
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PrinceofPein
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So many
Outside space and time and dimensions is low 1-c,
1. How many dimension
2. What are the nature of these dimensions
3. What is the relationship between these dimensions
There a lot of questions that the AP section does not answer
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Anyway, I'll explain;
So for Outer God's their scaling is simple.
In the verse there are Realms, lot of Universes have their own systems with their own Realms. I should clarify Realms are not actual planes, but any Ranking System, so Cultivation Levels qualify under the banner of Realms as well. In the higher realms, you are basically a God who can create universes, or universes within universes, have a universe in your body, or just straight up ascend to higher dimensions.
It was later stated, even beings who are at the peak of their Universes Realms would be stuck in the First Level of the Cthulhu Universes Realms. It was later shown that Bai Ge, who has the power to be +1 against any Realm he interacts with couldn't reach the Outer Gods.
On top of that, even when he reached the peak of the Cthulhu Universes Realms +1 and was an indescribable higher existence to the other Great Old Ones he still didn't reach the Outer God's level.
So ya, Outer Gods are unreachable by that, and any improvement of it, the rest of their AP Rating is just them being beyond the Cthulhu Universe.
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unknown
the gap between them is greater than the concept of dimensionality
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What is called a dimension in this fiction has a different meaning from dimensions in general.
This fiction uses the analogy of an infinite white paper governed by Information, Information really could rule everything, with the limitation is information from a higher dimension. You can even create cosmologies that are larger than just dimensions, although from a higher dimensional perspective this would be meaningless
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- #86
Dimensions arent really important to this CRT though...
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He asked, I answered
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- #88
Ik, but I don't want him focusing on the wrong stuff.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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Honestly, while I get what you are saying here, is it possible for you to use this explanation as points and add scans that you can get?
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Sure no problem, I'll gather the quotes tonight since their spread across two novels.
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- Realms can be boundless, and the Systems that are formed via Realms also form their specific Universe. The worldview of a Universe can have as many levels and Realms as there are natural numbers, infinite. The gap between Realms is that of quality, not quantity, as such no amount of a power increase can overcome the gap between a higher and lower realm.
- Beings in the Higher Realms can, destroy universes, create universes, or even create worlds within worlds, have universes in their body, shatter all restrains and transcend eternity or even ascend to higher dimensions.
- Even a peerless expert, a peak existence of some other universes would be stuck in the normal domain of the Cthulhu Universe, unable to understand even the most low-level creature.
- Despite that, Bai Ge who has the ability to be +1 above any Realm he interacts with could surpass all of the Great Old One's +1. It should be noted that at the time Bai Ge was an indescribable existence to the other Great Old Ones. However, he still couldn't reach the Absolute Rank of the Pillar Gods and implied he couldn't unless he became an Absolute Rank himself.
- This is because Outer Gods are impossible to reach through improvement, with there being no possibility of improvement between ranks different than their own, as such they are unsurpassable.
On the other hand, the Cthulhu Universe has four of its own levels, with even the lowest being equal to the highest levels of other Universes. This hint's at the Cthulhu Universes System being one of superiority as those of higher levels are beyond the logic of the last level, operating the universe from a God's perspective.
This is shown to be true as Great Old ones are seen as Infinite, Indescribable, and beyond Euclidean Geometry by those of lowers levels and operate the laws of the Universe, as if they exist in a separate universe altogether.
So Outer Gods have their 1-A status based on being beyond an extension of levels and realms, including those of the Great Old Ones who have shown superiority between levels. And Great Old Ones are Low 1-C, to 1-C based on their level within the Cthulhu Universe System.
High 1-A for Yog-Sothoth and the others is based on scaling above Great Old Ones who can effect the Cthulhu Universe which has Timelines that follow Set Theory up to 1-A+.
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Bumb.
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- #93
Can you attempt to call staff again? They can read the explanation I posted above.
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@Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12 @Everything12 @Planck69 @Ovy7
Would any of you be willing to help out here please?
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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Sure, I will go through it later
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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Every other thing is fine.
But can you send scans of this claims?
Ovy7
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(Sorry for the wait, I had a busy week)
Ok, after reading through the scans posted above, and mind you that I have 0 knowledge of this series, the only tier I can get for the Outer Gods and Yog-Sothoth is 1-A.
That string of universes is as big as natural numbers, putting it at High 1-B. But, if the lowest lvl of the Cthulhu universe is equal to the highest lvl of the previous mentioned hierarchy of universes, then that would only make the Cthulhu universe higher into High 1-B, because this universe is just continuing the "chain" where the previous hierarchy stopped. The Outer Gods I think would be 1-A here, for being impossible to reach in the same way all these universes can be reached.
Also, same as Pain, I don't get where the High 1-A for Yog is coming from tho. At least from these scans, the most it can mathematically can go to is Aleph 0, the set of the natural numbers (which, as previously mentioned, is only High 1-B).
Ok, after reading through the scans posted above, and mind you that I have 0 knowledge of this series, the only tier I can get for the Outer Gods and Yog-Sothoth is 1-A.
That string of universes is as big as natural numbers, putting it at High 1-B. But, if the lowest lvl of the Cthulhu universe is equal to the highest lvl of the previous mentioned hierarchy of universes, then that would only make the Cthulhu universe higher into High 1-B, because this universe is just continuing the "chain" where the previous hierarchy stopped. The Outer Gods I think would be 1-A here, for being impossible to reach in the same way all these universes can be reached.
Also, same as Pain, I don't get where the High 1-A for Yog is coming from tho. At least from these scans, the most it can mathematically can go to is Aleph 0, the set of the natural numbers (which, as previously mentioned, is only High 1-B).
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- The Cthulhu Universe follows a Non-Mainstream Timeline Splitting Setting, and it is stated to follow the whole infinite variables thing.
- In the first novel, Timelines were explained to work by superimposing one another and power-setting each other, each variable, which is an action presents N possibilities and each addition to history creates more possibilities and the possibilities generated are endless.
N = Infinite Possibilities, each Possibility = 1 New Timeline
1 Variable/Action = N
2 Variables/Actions = When two variables exist they superimpose each other, and become N^N, so Infinite Possibilities to the power Infinite Possibilities.
Infinite Variables = (N^N^N---> Infinitely)
Infinite Variables Superimposing = (N^N^N---> Infinitely)^(N^N^N---> Infinitely) and then all those Timelines created through this method do the same constantly becoming bigger (N^N^N---> Infinitely)^(N^N^N---> Infinitely)^(N^N^N---> Infinitely)---> Infinitely, and so on and so forth.
This is what Low 1-C equals in our Tiering System;
R is Real Numbers, Uncountable Infinity, and Aleph-1, so an Aleph-1 of Universes is Low 1-C, and 2 Variables are equivalent to N^N which equals R (Infinity ^ Infinity = Uncountable Infinity or Aleph-1).
So this goes from Aleph-1 Timelines to Aleph-2, and then Aleph-3, as each Aleph can be reached the same way Low 1-A is reached from High 1-B. So once there are a High 1-B amount of Timelines, it's then High 1-B^High 1-B, then Low 1-A^Low 1-A ---> on until you hit 1-A+ and the Uncountably 1-A+.
Of course, this never hits High 1-A since HIgh 1-A is Inaccessible to this, just like the Outer Gods are. The only reason it's a likely rating is that they don't directly mention it's power setting like before, but they are described similarly and was likely the same in that regard.
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2 Actions=N^N=Aleph 1=R Timelines
4 Actions=(N^N)^(N^N)=Aleph 2 Timelines
8 Actions= Aleph 2^ Aleph 2=Aleph 3 timelines
…
Infinite Variables=Aleph Omega Timelines
Infinite Variables Superimposing = aleph omega^Aleph Omega Timelines
And the number of timelines keeps getting more and more endless, right?
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Is it even allowed to scale stuff to uncountable infinities if alephs aren't specifically mentioned?
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If it's consistent, it's not a problem.
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Why it should be specifically mentioned?
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Because mentioning higher infinites dosen't necessarily mean it refers to alephs or aleph 0.
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In which rule does it state that the term need to be mentioned? I am not aware of this rule.
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I am not saying there is a rule about this. That's why i asked.
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Ya, there is no such thing.
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infinity ^infinity = infinity The system of axiom of power set is not like that. You must explicitly state the show of P{x} because it The power set axiom allows a simple definition of the Cartesian product and it is wrong to use mathematical notation with an infinite set. It will have the same value.
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That's like saying that if you don't talk about mathematical theorems/theory, you'll never get to H1A
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Ya there is no rule for this, whatever.
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anyway, the author of this series doesn't think Infinite ^ infinite=Infinite. Or see this scan the author thinks about infinity.
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Not how we treat it on this wiki.
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