Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,184
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Some towers don't exist yet in BTD6 so I think those BTD5 exclusive towers should still keept their BTD5 stats for now. They can always be revised if they reappear in BTD6
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Bloons Tower Defense: Whole lotta additions
- Thread starter Robot972
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #122
The games are all canon (including BSM and BMC) in some regard, in that they do show the history of both sides developing their skills and arsenals, but aside from that, there's not much of a timeline.
Honestly at first I had considering wondering whether Dartling Gunner should be two profiles, but thought it wasn't necessary since it was only really the one upgrade
Honestly at first I had considering wondering whether Dartling Gunner should be two profiles, but thought it wasn't necessary since it was only really the one upgrade
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Maybe a question to in the ninja kiwi forum about which game is Canon will be helpful.
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also I just made a general discussion thread
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Yeah I'm not saying that we remove towers or anything, just asking if BTD6 take priority over earlier games.
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I just found this thread from the profiles and...
This needs to be put into a calc blog and accepted by calc group members if it's gonna stay on the profiles.
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Did that never happen? Yeah it needs to be in a blog, not a linked comment.
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Also, just noticed the source for 8-B.
For one, no calc group member has evaluated it or even commented in this thread, which is a requirement for calcs to be accepted. (EDIT: Hell, DMUA rejected the banana farm calc, mentioning in particular the part about growing bananas.)
Secondly, why do BFBs scale to the energy required to grow four trees just because they moved through them without dying? That makes zero sense; there is no relationship there. The energy required to grow trees does not relate to the energy required to walk past them. You gave the other example of the Kraken variant of it where it summons a pile of tentacles that just sit there, but why not calculate what the tentacles would be outputting in that case?
Hell, why does the Obyn calc use the actual real-world size of the trees they grow, while other calcs for the verse pixel-scale the in-game sprites? If this was done with the Obyn calc, the results would be far lower. "It's meant to be a representation so it's not literal" is a fair response, but in that case, why was the Sun Avatar calc accepted if we know those sprites are inaccurate?
The RBE use for multipliers also seems incredibly shoddy. There was a dev blog with a Q&A section, where someone asked if the monkeys are aware of the RBE mechanic, they said they're pretty sure one of the monkeys came up with it. That seems way to weak to get a multiplier off of. This goes completely against our standards for Multipliers
For one, no calc group member has evaluated it or even commented in this thread, which is a requirement for calcs to be accepted. (EDIT: Hell, DMUA rejected the banana farm calc, mentioning in particular the part about growing bananas.)
Secondly, why do BFBs scale to the energy required to grow four trees just because they moved through them without dying? That makes zero sense; there is no relationship there. The energy required to grow trees does not relate to the energy required to walk past them. You gave the other example of the Kraken variant of it where it summons a pile of tentacles that just sit there, but why not calculate what the tentacles would be outputting in that case?
Hell, why does the Obyn calc use the actual real-world size of the trees they grow, while other calcs for the verse pixel-scale the in-game sprites? If this was done with the Obyn calc, the results would be far lower. "It's meant to be a representation so it's not literal" is a fair response, but in that case, why was the Sun Avatar calc accepted if we know those sprites are inaccurate?
The RBE use for multipliers also seems incredibly shoddy. There was a dev blog with a Q&A section, where someone asked if the monkeys are aware of the RBE mechanic, they said they're pretty sure one of the monkeys came up with it. That seems way to weak to get a multiplier off of. This goes completely against our standards for Multipliers
These were not directly stated, these were reasoned from gameplay values.
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- Thread starter
- #132
Right.
The 8-B scaling came from the idea that since the Kraken was actually manually attacking Bloons rather than absorbing them, they'd likely compare since they pop the same number of Bloons. I recognize it's shoddy, so I'm more than fine taking suggestions.
Same goes for the RBE Blog. I was told it was fine to use, so that's why it's getting used currently. More than fine doing whatever to fix it.
The 8-B scaling came from the idea that since the Kraken was actually manually attacking Bloons rather than absorbing them, they'd likely compare since they pop the same number of Bloons. I recognize it's shoddy, so I'm more than fine taking suggestions.
Same goes for the RBE Blog. I was told it was fine to use, so that's why it's getting used currently. More than fine doing whatever to fix it.
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Doesn't the Kraken animation just have the tentacles sitting around, like the trees do? And it's still an incredibly weird ability, with how it turns those bloons into cash and isn't capped by duration, but rather number of pops; if there's only room for 1 RBE left and a blue bloon strolls by it presumably won't get destroyed entirely, which is weird if you assume the tentacles are attacking everything that walks through with MOAB-level damage.
I'd ideally like to say "Just calc the Kraken and use that to scale to BFBs" but I don't think it can really be calc'd. Maybe the best thing you could do is scale that tree-creating energy to Obyn's level 10 attacks, but I think we'd need a better reason to scale the two, and if we did that, everything MOAB and above would scale.
tl;dr I can see some potential avenues to save it, but I'd lean towards removing the rating entirely.
On RBE, I think those multipliers should just be nuked entirely. Health, even if made canonical in some way, can't be used for multipliers without a shitton of evidence.
I'd ideally like to say "Just calc the Kraken and use that to scale to BFBs" but I don't think it can really be calc'd. Maybe the best thing you could do is scale that tree-creating energy to Obyn's level 10 attacks, but I think we'd need a better reason to scale the two, and if we did that, everything MOAB and above would scale.
tl;dr I can see some potential avenues to save it, but I'd lean towards removing the rating entirely.
On RBE, I think those multipliers should just be nuked entirely. Health, even if made canonical in some way, can't be used for multipliers without a shitton of evidence.
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Also, it seems really weird that DDTs downscale from BFBs (whose rating is based on surviving wall of trees) rather than MOABs (whose rating is based on lead bloons), when DDTs get noped by wall of trees.
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Did you ever end up making that?
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- Thread starter
- #139
Oh right, sorry. Have been a bit busy so I never got to finishing it.
Was waiting for more information on the Paragons to come out before I posted it. I'll take a look around and see what I can find, since I also need to send that Super Monkey calc to a blog and might look at doing the long-needed Tower speed revision
and Obyn's AP revision... and the Bloons multiplier revision
Was waiting for more information on the Paragons to come out before I posted it. I'll take a look around and see what I can find, since I also need to send that Super Monkey calc to a blog and might look at doing the long-needed Tower speed revision
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- Thread starter
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