- 20,549
- 17,463
Well we got two options
- Calc it with no upgrades
- Just upscale them from the Sun Avatar's 6-C thing
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Bloons Tower Defense: Whole lotta additions
- Thread starter Robot972
- Start date
- 20,549
- 17,463
Well they used two methods
- First they just used a standard Dart Monkey and compared its head size to the size of the tower. Which then got the size of the plasma shots
- They used Bloons Monkey City and compared its different in-game size to the size of a standard monkey then used the game to get the size of the plasma blast
- 20,549
- 17,463
What do you mean?
- SA = 2πrh + 2πr^2
- SA = 2π(355.7914/2)(35.7082) + 2π(177.8957)^2
- SA = 2π(177.8957)(35.7082) + 2π(31,646.88007849)
- SA = 39,912.899 + 198,843.211927
- SA = 238,756.11
- 20,549
- 17,463
Huh. Okay, guess we can go with that for Tier 5 BAD people. Or at least with a "likely" rating.
Does the True Sun God or the Vengeful Temple get a higher result btw?
Does the True Sun God or the Vengeful Temple get a higher result btw?
- 2,488
- 442
- Thread starter
- #49
We don't know what their values are currently because there's nothing they can calc or be scaled to. The projectiles are the same size and there's no other references from other games or the like to scale the True Sun God's size too, plus the Bloons that are more powerful than the BAD don't appear in this game, so.
- 20,549
- 17,463
True. The current tier of "At least 6-B, likely higher" works out well for the moment anyways.
- 2,488
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- Thread starter
- #51
Alright, Bloons Scaling Rules page has been updated again. Feedback would be appreciated
- 20,549
- 17,463
Looks alright to me, though the scaling is ultimately going to be a bit funky due to the inherit weirdness of RBE.
- 2,488
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- Thread starter
- #54
Okay, so at the time being, it seems the only thing that needs to be done left for this revision is getting the Bloons scaling settled (though that's ignoring the general revisions required for BSM and BATTD which I'll solve another time). Once that's concluded, then the towers' tiering can be adjusted appropriately.
- 20,549
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As before, since it's an in-universe thing I'm okay with using it for AP/Dura scaling. As long as it doesn't break with calcs or logic.
- 1,712
- 251
hey so I haven't looked at this thread for a while, but I feel like I should add that size scaling in BDT is virtually impossible because sizes tend to be inconsistent. Depending on the map you're playing on, sometimes a dart monkey is the size of a person and sometimes they're the size of a building. If we include BTD5 maps (which we do because all main series bloons games are canon as well as monkey city, I believe) sometimes they're the size of countries. This also goes for bloons. For this reason, it's good to size scale based on the BMC sprites because they're the most consistent thing we'll get. This is also why ranges can be difficult to calc since they only appear ingame. The only consistent measure we'll get is the upgrade art
- 2,488
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- Thread starter
- #59
That's the main reason why I wanted to get a new tier for the MOAB-Class Bloons, because I was annoyed with the previous scaling via size, considering it was based off back-of-the-envelope calculations. But also because this looks a hell of a lot bigger than Building Level lol.
But as for tower calcs, the ones that don't rely solely on UI artwork pass through BMC at least once for size reference (because, as you said, that's the best sense of scaling we have so far)
But as for tower calcs, the ones that don't rely solely on UI artwork pass through BMC at least once for size reference (because, as you said, that's the best sense of scaling we have so far)
- 2,786
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I'll agree with this
- 2,488
- 442
- Thread starter
- #64
Well, moab size scaling based off BMC gives two issues, one being that it doesn't match the size of the ZOMG in the BTD5 trailer I linked to, and 2 being that the size of the buildings don't line up with how big the blimps should be (ZOMG only takes up 3x3 spaces (though it looks like the blimp itself takes up 2x3), despite containing four BFBs (which takes up the majority of its two spaces)
- 2,488
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- Thread starter
- #67
Lead's durability is based on the current weakest calc that can pop it (which is why it's wall level and not street level). I did this because of the fact that it's made from a different material than the rubber Bloons and I thought it would make more sense.
It was never something that got brought up, but if you want to talk about downgrading it and the Bloons that are scaled from it, then yeah, we can start discussing that revision.
It was never something that got brought up, but if you want to talk about downgrading it and the Bloons that are scaled from it, then yeah, we can start discussing that revision.
- 1,712
- 251
you may have a point about it being a different material now that you mention it. The real reason I ask is because lead's inability be popped doesn't seem to have anything to do with durability but rather just a resistance to things like sharp objects as well as weak magic and ice manipulation. A 0-2-5 permaspike farming a spike pile for 100 rounds couldn't pop a single lead bloon even though it should have the collective AP to pop several BADs
- 2,488
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- Thread starter
- #69
Yeah, it's hard to tell what the Bloons are capable of tanking considering their only durability feats are their likely High 6-C resistances.
I originally scaled Lead like this because it just felt weird to continue scaling from the Dart Monkey like the rubber Bloons. So considering the towers that can pop it all seem to be Wall level at least for their calcs, it seems like a simple enough solution.
I originally scaled Lead like this because it just felt weird to continue scaling from the Dart Monkey like the rubber Bloons. So considering the towers that can pop it all seem to be Wall level at least for their calcs, it seems like a simple enough solution.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,411
- 4,333
Leads should probably get resistance to piercing damage since they can't be affected by sharp objects. Their resistance has nothing to do with their AP too. This also scales to DDTs since they have Lead properties and can't br popped by sharp objects too
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,411
- 4,333
Well, yeah, but that need to be elaborated it can't be bypassed with just AP, since it isn't a resistance to a durability negating hax or something
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,411
- 4,333
Similar thing to this, but elaborate that Lead Bloons can go through sharp objects regardless of their RBE (similarly to the example you used with the 0-2-5 spike factory)
- 1,712
- 251
actually it can be bypassed with sheer AP. Most tier 5s that are just purely lots of sharp objects can pop leads with a few exceptions. (take a look at crossbow master, super maelstrom, elite sniper, elite defender, carrier flagship, sky shredder, dark champion+legend of the night)
- 2,488
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- Thread starter
- #78
Super Monkey's the only tower that reaches Tier 5. Every other tower remains tier 8
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