Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

[Cyberblader90]

I dont care about the spiritual points or the color. Im asking for the raw text regarding "turn aside". That was not posted in the thread.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3572191

Ive asked for a translation for it after finding the scan

The thread didnt solve the sfx issue, just established it wasnt a klang

 

[Axxtentacle]

Dude, he intercepted a light speed attack and sent it back. The wording of how he did it is completely irrelevant.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Why would it be irrelevant? That phrase it the argument for it reflecting, which was one of the conditions used to prove it as light speed in the first place.

The sound point is relevant, because if it made sound that means it had force, which means it has mass

Even accepting the phrase as "turn aside" does not really help

turn aside

Definition of turn aside in the Idioms Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

idioms.thefreedictionary.com

"To deflect something; to direct or divert something away"

reflecting something and deflecting something are different
Reflection is when something (light, heat, etc.) bounces off a surface without being absorbed
Deflection is just changing the direction of something
I can deflect a tennis ball, for example, but no one would call that reflection

The beam would have remained continuous and been reflected toward a different target, which it would burn
In this case, it was deflected by the sword, but stopped there
It didn't reflect toward a different destination the way that real light would have

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Do what you like. I’m done here lol.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I mean, we don't exactly need the visual representation of him reflecting it. If Mask said he reflected it, then it was reflected. There's no reason to say otherwise.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Again though, he said it was deflected, not reflected. refer to my above post for the difference.
If we go off the visual, the blade being left like that doesnt support reflection

 

[Axxtentacle]

What do you mean "left like that"? With smoke on it? All that proves is that the beam had heat.

"Deflect (pronounced “dee-fleckt”) is a verb. It literally means to swerve or change direction." You're arguing semantics. It's a 1 letter difference that means effectively the exact same thing.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Reflection of light — Science Learning Hub

The smoke like that doesnt prove reflection.

Reflection is when radiation bounces off of something without being absorbed, so for the sword to smoke, it would have had to absorb heat from the beam. Obviously reflective surfaces aren't indestructible and it's possible to melt things like mirrors with enough intensity, but most radiation will reflect off of them rather than cause damage, and there would have been some level of actual reflection regardless, the beam wouldn't just stop at the sword and not go anywhere else.

Should mention it was translated by one site translator as "repelled"
Official Translations Requests Thread (New forum) | VS Battles Wiki Forum

In regards to sound sfx on the blade

Japan-and-me.com

I think i can see why it was translated as a "klang"

 

[Axxtentacle]

I never said the smoke proved reflection.

What do you mean "left like that"? With smoke on it? All that proves is that the beam had heat.

Repelled means "to drive back", which would mean Renji physically hit it away. But that's not what we see, what we see is that Renji standing there, and his sword having smoke on it from the blast.

If you use the official translation, "turned aside" would imply that he reflected it away, since we don't see movement.

If you use the one from the translators on the wiki, he "repelled" it. But, he only moved his sword in the way of it. You can't repel something without hitting it away, which implies he reflected it, since we don't see him physically hit it away.

 

[Cyberblader90]

In this case, two translations came up as repelled. The viz isnt perfect, given one of the arguments against what I originally posted is that viz took liberties by adding "klang".

heck it has the kanji: はじく which means repel

Again turn aside doesnt mean actual reflection. I have already explained why the way the scene is framed doesnt support that.

"Drive back" doesn't inherently mean he has to swing the blade, Stopping the beam would pretty much be the same thing, given the context of the scene.

He stopped the beam from the hitting the downed captains, which is what Mask is referring to

 

[Axxtentacle]

In this case, two translations came up as repelled. The viz isnt perfect, given one of the arguments against what I originally posted is that viz took liberties by adding "klang".

"drive or force (an attack or attacker) back or away." Yes, he would literally have to swing his blade to do this. The viz isn't perfect, but that doesn't add or take away anything from this.

If he just blocked it, then he wouldn't have said "Repelled". The definition I provided earlier is not actually the most widely-used definition, this is the definition from Oxford Languages.

heck it has the kanji: はじく which means repel

Again turn aside doesnt mean actual reflection. I have already explained why the way the scene is framed doesnt support that.

All you effectively said is that it doesn't necessarily mean that he reflected it. I already said that we don't need the visual representation of the beam going somewhere else when it's heavily implied that it did.

"Drive back" doesn't inherently mean he has to swing the blade, Stopping the beam would pretty much be the same thing, given the context of the scene.

No, stopping something is not the same as driving something back. That's literally ignoring the definition of the word "Repel".

He stopped the beam from the hitting the downed captains, which is what Mask is referring to

Why'd you even mention this again? This really doesn't mean anything. He stopped it from hitting the captains by intercepting it and repelling/reflecting it away.

 

[Reio35]

Are auswahlen speed calcs still being accepted

 

[Axxtentacle]

No idea, but you should ask that on the bleach discussion thread instead of here.

 

[SilentBob34]

Yeah there’s no way this calc is legit and their that fast, honestly we should go based on feats only from the arcs, and that would put Ulquiorra faster than the god tiers I’m pretty sure lmao. Damage, Cyberblade, don’t you guys agree?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yeah there’s no way this calc is legit and their that fast, honestly we should go based on feats only from the arcs, and that would put Ulquiorra faster than the god tiers I’m pretty sure lmao. Damage, Cyberblade, don’t you guys agree?

...are you just gonna ignore the debate going on?

 

[Cyberblader90]

Ill address these points by breaking down the scene

Mask fires the beam

It impacts with renji's blade as a star shape. There is no noticeable reflection. We have smoke from the impact and that is it.

"You just repelled my Star Flash... Who are you!"

Repel | Definition of Repel by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)
Repel also can mean "keep something away".

Will address the other points shortly

 

[Cyberblader90]

as for the other points... What is the the supposed implication he reflected it?
The blade having smoke means it absorbed heat, but doesnt imply reflection
"repel" like wise doesnt imply actual light reflection

 

[Axxtentacle]

as for the other points... What is the the supposed implication he reflected it?
The blade having smoke means it absorbed heat, but doesnt imply reflection
"repel" like wise doesnt imply actual light reflection

I... already explained everything you just said. Stop strawmanning what I said about the blade having heat and this somehow proving reflection, I literally never said anything about that. All I said is that the smoke just proved the beam had heat. I already addressed everything else you said.

Ill address these points by breaking down the scene

Mask fires the beam

It impacts with renji's blade as a star shape. There is no noticeable reflection. We have smoke from the impact and that is it.

"You just repelled my Star Flash... Who are you!"

Repel | Definition of Repel by Merriam-Webster (merriam-webster.com)
Repel also can mean "keep something away".

Will address the other points shortly

Using a definition that isn't as common to prove your point? Why would we not just use the most widely-used and accepted definition?

I already said why we don't necessarily need a visual representation of it being reflected, when it's implied either way.

 

[SilentBob34]

@Axxtentacle, sorry man but cyber wants this downgrade based on bs reasons, and with damage agreeing with him it’s 100% gonna happen lol. Like seriously, just let it happen, by the end of it, ******* Soul society arc orihime is gonna be faster than the god tiers lmao.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Dude, I really don't want to just let it happen lmao. He's arguing semantics and cherry picking definitions that aren't as widely used or accepted to help his argument.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Its an equally as valid definition, which works in the context of the scene. earlier you criticized my comparison on reflection/deflection (despite explaining the difference) as semantics.

what you are doing now is literally semantics

And no, you havent explained why its implied reflection. pls quote where you did.
It not is reflection because
1. The light doesnt visibly reflect.
2. reflection would be indicative that absorption did not occur, which is literally false as it absorbed heat
3. Repelled doesnt mean reflected. That is what the raw tells us what happened, regardless of what definition you want

citation for second point:
Physics Tutorial: Light Absorption, Reflection, and Transmission (physicsclassroom.com)

 

[SilentBob34]

Exactly man lol, and Damage immediately jumping on board with him with the whole speed gap thing when it was done by someone who just trained with the royal guard and was stomping someone who easily took out to vizard captains. But hey, just goes to show how people will do whatever it takes to make things “accurate” or whatever they wanna call it instead of accepting it.

 

[Cyberblader90]

can you stop derailing the thread, i literally do not care about the speed gap. If the verse is mftl, fine. Just do that with a feat that is actually viable

 

[SilentBob34]

Can you stop wanting everything spoon fed to you?

 

[Axxtentacle]

...I did explain why it's implied reflection. A few posts ago.

 

[Cyberblader90]

as i said, pls repost it

 

[Cyberblader90]

Can you stop wanting everything spoon fed to you?

What are you talking about? Im providing actual citations for my claims

 

[SilentBob34]

@Cyberblader90 you’re wanting it to go so in depth when I’m pretty sure other feats have been accepted for less. Like god damn, for Bleach’s feats to be legit, it has to follow pretty much EVERY guideline and rule to a T or it’s not legit.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Your citations just prove that it's up to whatever definition you choose to use for the word "repel", dude. You're specifically using a definition that isn't used as often just to try to downgrade bleach.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Let me ask you a simple question.
Why is light as fast it is in real life

Point of the question has to do with the thread

 

[Axxtentacle]

Let me ask you a simple question.
Why is light as fast it is in real life

Point of the question has to do with the thread

Why does this matter?

 

[Cyberblader90]

That was for bob

 

[SilentBob34]

Dude it’s a manga, be serious. You seriously expect Kubo to be a scientist on light?

 

[Cyberblader90]

Your citations just prove that it's up to whatever definition you choose to use for the word "repel", dude. You're specifically using a definition that isn't used as often just to try to downgrade bleach.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-pts-speed-downgrade.112335/post-3572356

Refer to point 3. Which ever def is irrelevant, although my given definition is still viable for the context of the scene

The absorbed heat means the light was blocked (heat was absorbed), not reflected
Light Absorption, Reflection, and Transmission - YouTube
This isnt head canon, this is literally how light works on surfaces

 

[Arcker123]

why is half of this thread debating the definition of repel

 

[Cyberblader90]

Dude it’s a manga, be serious. You seriously expect Kubo to be a scientist on light?

The site has standards for light speed, in order to justify giving out irl speeds to depictions in fiction. Not every depiction of light gets 299,792.458 km per second. There are several factors to keep in mind as why photons travel that fast.

For example, the storm release laser circus from naruto should be "light", given its description in the series. the problem is that it curves, which implies acceleration. that means it doesnt have a constant speed, which violates how irl light works.

You would not be able to objectively say that it is the speed of light in IRL

At the very minimum, the writer for the canon novels has some understanding of physics, as shown here:
Screenshot_20201105-171613.png (1080×2300) (discordapp.com)

 

[Axxtentacle]

"The absorbed heat means the light was blocked". So, it's light? That point only works if you say it's light. You are claiming that the beam is light in order to disprove Renji reflecting it, but that still makes it a FTL feat for intercepting light.

My definition is also viable. I don't know why you said that.

 

[SilentBob34]

Cyber, no joke, the downgrades probably gonna happen so there isn’t really any point in arguing for it. Honestly, after seeing Imade’s arguments be disregarded on the god tier downgrade thread, who’s one of the most knowledgeable people on bleach, I’m fully convinced that anyone who has no knowledge of the series and rely fully on real life physics can do what they want with the Bleach franchise

 

[SilentBob34]

Note I do agree with you Axxtentacle

 

[Axxtentacle]

Honestly, should this just be postponed till the Auschwalen stuff is done? If that is accepted as FTL, then that would be a supporting feat for this. If it's not, we should be able to dismiss this, no?