Bleach: God Tier ability Upgrades.

[SuperSonicTL]

I have a question...

Why y'all talking about giving it to Ichibei when he clearly was effected by Almighty? He also existed before the creation of the current stablized world.

He clearly debunks the notion that Soul King and others have type 4 acausality given the Almighty not working on Soul King panel came right after that event.

Soo it seems to me that this idea of "Acausality" ain't gonna cut it as long as this anti-feat exists.

However Soul King controlling the idea of stillness and advancement may work out ig.

 

[Hellscream]

Why are you comparing soul king, the creator of the current cosmology to ichibei?

 

[Lynieryz]

Why y'all talking about giving it to Ichibei when he clearly was effected by Almighty? He also existed before the creation of the current stablized world.

This doesn't "debunk" anything, acausality isn't coming from Almighty, all it would mean is that the Almighty can nullify type 4 acausality.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Why are you comparing soul king, the creator of the current cosmology to ichibei?

Don't get me wrong but given how i seen some people here are trying to give Ichibei acausality may didn't realized that he existed before creation himself and Almighty clearly worked on him

 

[SuperSonicTL]

This doesn't "debunk" anything, acausality isn't coming from Almighty, all it would mean is that the Almighty can nullify type 4 acausality.

Soo Acausality Negation? Okay why it didn't it worked on Soul King then? Hell why it didn't worked on Pernida who's whole gimmick was "advancement"? Unless we are basing it on his lack of three pupils i suppose

 

[Lynieryz]

Soo Acausality Negation? Okay why it didn't it worked on Soul King then? Hell why it didn't worked on Pernida who's whole gimmick was "advancement"? Unless we are basing it on his lack of three pupils i suppose

Resistance, Ichibei has acausality type 4 < Yhwach Almighty ignores < Soul King and his body parts are not affected.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Resistance, Ichibei has acausality type 4 < Yhwach Almighty ignores < Soul King and his body parts are not affected.

How would you take Yhwach changing his own future as? Resistance negation to acausality negation?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

How would you take Yhwach changing his own future as? Resistance negation to acausality negation?

Acausality Type 4 characters exist within different laws. It's not that they lack a future, just say the Almighty can affect the future of Acausality Type 4 characters. That's all.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Acausality Type 4 characters exist within different laws. It's not that they lack a future, just say the Almighty can affect the future of Acausality Type 4 characters. That's all.

Didn't effected Soul King's future tho... Sooooooooooooo resistance to precognition on top of Acausality type 4? And he can bypass that too after seeing his own death and rewriting it

 

[Hellscream]

Blud
What are you waffling about

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Blud
What are you waffling about

Whatever Bleach makes you waffle is what i'm waffling about simple

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Didn't effected Soul King's future tho... Sooooooooooooo resistance to precognition on top of Acausality type 4? And he can bypass that too after seeing his own death and rewriting it

The Soul King can see his own future, what TF are you talking about? Pre SK Absorbed Yhwach not seeing the Soul King's future has nothing to do with what's being discussed here. The version of Yhwach proposed in the OP is the one who has already absorbed the Soul King and gained his powers. You should read the OP at least if you haven't read the series.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

The Soul King can see his own future, what TF are you talking about? Pre SK Absorbed Yhwach not seeing the Soul King's future has nothing to do with what's being discussed here. The version of Yhwach proposed in the OP is the one who has already absorbed the Soul King and gained his powers. You should read the OP at least if you haven't read the series.

Look, all i'm saying is that if Soul King and Ichibei has acausality type 4 for that matter and Almighty could bypass Ichibei's acausality but not Soul king so does that mean Soul King has resistance to acausality type 4 bypassing precognition?

What would that be proven for post-Soul King absorbed Yhwach who could see his own future? Are you guyz planning to give Yhwach acausality type 4 through absorbing Soul King and then him seeing his own future could mean he can even negate resistance to type 4 acausality bypassing Precognition?

Answer this and then i may agree given it all makes sense in my views atleast (its been quite a while since i touched Bleach hence why soo many questions are arousing in my mind right now lel)

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Look, all i'm saying is that if Soul King and Ichibei has acausality type 4 for that matter and Almighty could bypass Ichibei's acausality but not Soul king so does that mean Soul King has resistance to acausality type 4 bypassing precognition?

What would that be proven for post-Soul King absorbed Yhwach who could see his own future? Are you guyz planning to give Yhwach acausality type 4 and then him seeing his own future could mean he can even negate resistance to type 4 acausality bypassing Precognition?

No one is planning to give any resistance negation in this thread. This is only an Acausality Type 4 upgrade. I suppose what you are asking will be addressed in a different thread. Additionally, I'm not sure whether Ichibē gets accepted as Acausality Type 4.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

those that have type 4 normally have resistance to both precognition and fate hax etc.
so the A bypassing it would just be a boost for the A.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

those that have type 4 normally have resistance to both precognition and fate hax etc.
so the A bypassing it would just be a boost for the A.

Yeah but this is a different situation where precognition could work on type 4 acausality depending how you gonna interpret Yhwach seeing Ichibei's future as

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Yeah but this is a different situation where precognition could work on type 4 acausality depending how you gonna interpret Yhwach seeing Ichibei's future as

like i said, that would just mean that the A is powerful enough to see the future of acasuals type 4.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Almighty could bypass Ichibei's acausality but not Soul king so does that mean Soul King has resistance to acausality type 4 bypassing precognition?

"layered acasuality"

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah but this is a different situation where precognition could work on type 4 acausality depending how you gonna interpret Yhwach seeing Ichibei's future as

You have a DMC profile picture and your username has Sonic in it. Those are two of the biggest verses that have Acausality being bypassed (Demon scaling and Sonic fate haxing Acausals.)


If Ichibei is effected then it's just layered Type 4 Acausality.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

You have a DMC profile picture and your username has Sonic in it. Those are two of the biggest verses that have Acausality being bypassed (Demon scaling and Sonic fate haxing Acausals.)


If Ichibei is effected then it's just layered Type 4 Acausality.

About time someone noticed it

True

 

[LordGinSama]

Anyway as for Ichibei I'd say a possible Type 4 is the best for him. Unlike the Soul King and others that have explicit feats and statements about being Acausal Ichibei doesn't and only has being from the primordial Era as evidence for his Type 4 Acausality.


UchihaSlayer said he agrees with this so one more staff member and we should be good.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Anyway as for Ichibei I'd say a possible Type 4 is the best for him. Unlike the Soul King and others that have explicit feats and statements about being Acausal Ichibei doesn't and only has being from the primordial Era as evidence for his Type 4 Acausality.


UchihaSlayer said he agrees with this so one more staff member and we should be good.

How about other body parts of Soul King like Gremmy and Gerard? Would you consider them to be acausal as well?

 

[LordGinSama]

How about other body parts of Soul King like Gremmy and Gerard? Would you consider them to be acausal as well?

I suppose that depends on the interpretation, but personally speaking I don't see it for his separate body parts. This would be a better question for @Arc7Kuroi or @Deceived3596 as they're much more familiar the finer aspects of Bleach scaling than me.

 

[Worthless]

Why y'all talking about giving it to Ichibei when he clearly was effected by Almighty? He also existed before the creation of the current stablized world.

He clearly debunks the notion that Soul King and others have type 4 acausality given the Almighty not working on Soul King panel came right after that event.

This is what I've been saying, his existence essentially debunks the argument that living in a time before the universe existed gives you a form of Acausality, as characters that existed in the same time as Reio have shown no resistance to future seeing.

That argument, including the transcendental one, is lacking in my eyes, especially considering its failure to address causality. These people who agree to these are the same individuals I consistently see stating, "too vague, no further explanation, and no direct statement supporting your argument." Lol.

And what I'm currently seeing now? Acausality negation, What? Reach on top of reach.

 

[LordGinSama]

This is what I've been saying, his existence essentially debunks the argument that living in a time before the universe existed gives you a form of Acausality, as characters that existed in the same time as Reio have shown no resistance to future seeing.

Yhwach never used his enhanced precognition on Ichibei. He blew him up from the inside which is a different application of the Almighty, furthermore being from a place with a different system of time and logic also grants characters Type 4 Acausality given that all of the Demons from Devil May Cry have Acausality via being born in the Demon realm which has a different flow of time.

That argument, including the transcendental one, is lacking in my eyes, especially considering its failure to address causality.

Causality does not need to be mentioned for Acausality. Dante Sparda and other characters dont have Type 4 for bringing up Causality.

These people who agree to these are the same individuals I consistently see stating, "too vague, no further explanation, and no direct statement supporting your argument." Lol.

Can you stop with your accusations? On god every time I see you in a HST thread it's just you crying and throwing around baseless accusation. This is an irrelevant point to make, that's just you trying to shit talk.

And what I'm currently seeing now? Acausality negation, What? Reach on top of reach.

It's called layers. But feel free to insult others and throw shade if you want, just saying it's not a good look.

 

[Worthless]

Yhwach never used his enhanced precognition on Ichibei. He blew him up from the inside which is a different application of the Almighty, furthermore being from a place with a different system of time and logic also grants characters Type 4 Acausality given that all of the Demons from Devil May Cry have Acausality via being born in the Demon realm which has a different flow of time.

Whether he used or didn't use whatever you just mentioned, it doesn't really address the fact that future-seeing worked on him. Existing outside or differently than time is Acausality type 1 with no further context. Whose character in that series are you talking about exactly? I want to check it. Also, the same goes for different logic, especially considering how lacking what it could mean within the context.

Causality does not need to be mentioned for Acausality. Dante Sparda and other characters dont have Type 4 for bringing up Causality.

And yet, that's the argument you are trying to impose in your post by showing Reio resisting causality manipulation.

Can you stop with your accusations? On god every time I see you in a HST thread it's just you crying and throwing around baseless accusation. This is an irrelevant point to make, that's just you trying to shit talk.

I'll say this to you, of all the years I've been here, I've only commented like three times with one post about HST.

"Accusations" Are you asking for my uncool unrestricted ass to participate here?

It's called layers.

It's called wank.

But feel free to insult others and throw shade if you want, just saying it's not a good look.

The irony. You "liked" the dude who used my name as an insult. You're asking for my insult, aren't you? My eyes have been on you after you insulted Epsilon

 

[Aernasilver]

You do realize just because you have a resistance to something doesn't mean it can't work on you?

There is even a goddamn hax layer thread just for, you guessed it, hax bypassing resistances.

Also is that a threat there at the end? Bruh.

 

[LordGinSama]

Whether he used or didn't use whatever you just mentioned, it doesn't really address the fact that future-seeing worked on him.

Which again is called layering. Acausality doesnt make you immune to abilities, only resistant. Your acting as if it means immunity.

Existing outside or differently than time is Acausality type 1 with no further context.

No, it really isn't. Again this is why plenty of characters here have Type 4.

Whose character in that series are you talking about exactly? I want to check it.

Dante and Demons from Devil May Cry, The Litch from Adventure Time, Trigun etc.

Also, the same goes for different logic, especially considering how lacking what it could mean within the context.

Read above. Worthless, this is a common practice. Your personal disagreement =/= fact. Once again this is a clear cut example of Type 4, cause and effect doesn't need to be explicitly stated or else dozens of characters wouldn't have it.

And yet, that's the argument you are trying to impose in your post by showing Reio resisting causality manipulation.

That's one point of separate evidence. Don't try to misconstrue shit intentionally.

I'll say this to you, of all the years I've been here, I've only commented like three times with one post about HST. .

I've been here longer than you and I've seen you comment on HST way more than 3 times. Now if you could drop the shit eating arrogance that'd be nice.

"Accusations" Are you asking for my uncool unrestricted ass to participate here?

Never asked you to comment here to begin with, but yeah sure thing go ahead and get your "uncool unrestricted ass" to come and participate. I'd be more than happy to report you in the RVR thread if you wanna try to start some shit.

It's called wank.

It's called downplay. You have zero arguments other than "this is wank."

The irony. You "liked" the dude who used my name as an insult.

Oh i wasn't aware that i was allowed to like particular comments. Now if you wanna play that card, let's compare that to you attacking the Bleach Fandom with "you people" from before.

You're asking for my insult, aren't you? My eyes have been on you after you insulted Epsilon

Ah a fan. You want an autograph with my signature?

 

[Worthless]

Which again is called layering. Acausality doesnt make you immune to abilities, only resistant. Your acting as if it means immunity.

I love how, instead of viewing it as an anti-feat, You all just started treating it as Acausality negation on future seeing. This is getting hilarious.

No, it really isn't. Again this is why plenty of characters here have Type 4.

And yet some characters is just type 1 due to it.

Dante and Demons from Devil May Cry, The Litch from Adventure Time, Trigun etc.

I love how all the characters you've mentioned are not just Acausality type 4, solely for existing outside of time, but also for various other reasons. And what evidence you have exactly that proves his existence exist outside of time?

Read above. Worthless, this is a common practice. Your personal disagreement =/= fact. Once again this is a clear cut example of Type 4, cause and effect doesn't need to be explicitly stated or else dozens of characters wouldn't have it.

If you can't provide an evidence that logic=causality, then you are just basically wanking shit.

That's one point of separate evidence. Don't try to misconstrue shit intentionally.

I've been here longer than you and I've seen you comment on HST way more than 3 times. Now if you could drop the shit eating arrogance that'd be nice.

Lmaooooo. You know? You were way better when you were just quiet and letting the others handle my ass. Also if you are talking about BC, BC is not a ducking HST and you clearly don't know why I'm acting like that in every BC post lmfao

Never asked you to comment here to begin with, but yeah sure thing go ahead and get your "uncool unrestricted ass" to come and participate. I'd be more than happy to report you in the RVR thread if you wanna try to start some shit.

You started it tho

It's called downplay. You have zero arguments other than "this is wank."

You do realize you are reaching right now, right?

Oh i wasn't aware that i was allowed to like particular comments. Now if you wanna play that card, let's compare that to you attacking the Bleach Fandom with "you people" from before.

Tell me what's wrong with that

Ah a fan. You want an autograph with my signature?

I was talking perfectly normal until you came with your weird aa, with half of them being useless as shit

 

[LordGinSama]

I love how, instead of viewing it as an anti-feat, You all just started treating it as Acausality negation on future seeing. This is getting hilarious.

Prove it's an anti feat. The only thing funny here is your lack of self awareness buddy.

And yet some characters is just type 1 due to it.

No characters to my knowledge have Type 1 for that reason. Type 1 is being uneffected by changes in time, being born in a place that has a different system of time =/= Type 1 as they can still be effected by changes in time.

I love how all the characters you've mentioned are not just Acausality type 4, solely for existing outside of time.

Demons from Devil May Cry and Plants from Trigun do not exist out of time. They simply have it for being born in places with a different flow of time.

but also for various other reasons. And what evidence you have exactly that proves his existence exist outside of time?

The fact that he existed before any concepts in the universe? Life, death and many things weren't around till The Soul King made them into concepts. He existed during a time where everything was different.

If you can't provide an evidence that logic=causality, then you are just basically wanking shit.

Again it's not wank. You labeling things as wank = You having no further argument.

Lmaooooo. You know? You were way better when you were just quiet and letting the others handle my ass. Also if you are talking about BC, BC is not a ducking HST and you clearly don't know why I'm acting like in every BC post lmfao

Buddy pal nobody ever mentioned BC. Literally what the **** are you even talking about at this point?

You started it tho

I quite literally never insulted you, shit I hardly interact with you because you act like an immature 12 year old that talks shit on fortnite all day.

You do realize you are reaching right now, right?

Not reaching at all whenever you can't even explain how it's "reaching."

Tell me what's wrong with that

Rules but you'll know soon enough trust me.

I was talking perfectly normal until you came with your weird aa, with half of them being useless as shit

Not seeing how replies to an argument is "weird."

 

[Random-Helper323]

The Dangai does have a demonstrably different flow of time. Did the Reio actually create it? I was given to understand he created the Soul Society and Hueco Mundo within it rather than creating it as well. Although that would require creating a different time flow (Soul Society) within another time flow (Dangai).

 

[Worthless]

Prove it's an anti feat. The only thing funny here is your lack of self awareness buddy.

How about you first prove that it's not an anti-feat? Because Acausality is more than just resistance, it's essentially nearly an immunity.

Characters with acausality exist differently from time or fate, rendering conventional time and fate manipulation ineffective on them as they aren't tied to a time and fate that conventional time and fate manipulation can affect.

Hence, when someone can affect Acausality type 4 with Causality, it is usually written as "Negation Acausality type 4" and not as layered causality manipulation, as no layered causality is affecting one that exists beyond or differently from the causality they can manipulate.

No characters to my knowledge have Type 1 for that reason. Type 1 is being uneffected by changes in time, being born in a place that has a different system of time =/= Type 1 as they can still be effected by changes in time.

It can be classified as Type 1 as it essentially function as one.

Demons from Devil May Cry and Plants from Trigun do not exist out of time. They simply have it for being born in places with a different flow of time.

So, should all Isekai characters have Type 4 Acausality for being born in a dimension where time differs from their current dimensions? It's either you are not telling the whole story, or you didn't fully understand the reasoning behind their Type 4 Acausality.

The fact that he existed before any concepts in the universe? Life, death and many things weren't around till The Soul King made them into concepts. He existed during a time where everything was different.

This doesn't really prove that it also means he existed before the concept of causality or time existed. Unless you have evidence for it, this is just another form of assumption on your part.

I hate your half of your argument, tbh, because you're essentially just spamming the idea that "just because it doesn't mention causality doesn't mean there is no causality." Get proof, please.

Again it's not wank. You labeling things as wank = You having no further argument.

Buddy pal nobody ever mentioned BC. Literally what the **** are you even talking about at this point?

I quite literally never insulted you, shit I hardly interact with you because you act like an immature 12 year old that talks shit on fortnite all day.

Ah yes aren't you also one of the people who uses my name for not liking my argument? I can literally prove it.

Not reaching at all whenever you can't even explain how it's "reaching."

Rules but you'll know soon enough trust me.

Not seeing how replies to an argument is "weird."

Because you didn't really add anything and made me appear as a bad guy, when all I did was mention the fact that you people are the same ones who keep talking about further explanation.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Worthless buddy chillax, no need to get this heated over a P&A revision

 

[Worthless]

Worthless buddy chillax, no need to get this heated over a P&A revision

My bad

 

[Random-Helper323]

How about you first prove that it's not an anti-feat? Because Acausality is more than just resistance, it's essentially nearly an immunity.

Characters with acausality exist differently from time or fate, rendering conventional time and fate manipulation ineffective on them as they aren't tied to a time and fate that conventional time and fate manipulation can affect.

The decider of whether it's an anti-feat is whether the Almighty somehow works on Acausal beings, and whether Ichibei qualifies as having that Acausality, since he isn't the Reio.

Does Ichibei definitely have it if Reio does, and how does the ability hold up without it?

So, should all Isekai characters have Type 4 Acausality for being born in a dimension where time differs from their current dimensions? It's either you are not telling the whole story, or you didn't fully understand the reasoning behind their Type 4 Acausality.

Well, in DMC's case I think it had to do with the demon world having a highly unpredictable time flow where different parts of it move at different paces and parts of it loop or stop entirely, and an entirely different set of laws. Demons are stated to not have to follow the human world's laws. Still, aren't similar statements made in Bleach about the Dangai and the Cleaner?

This doesn't really prove that it also means he existed before the concept of causality or time existed. Unless you have evidence for it, this is just another form of assumption on your part.

Hmmm... Based on what little I've seen of this I have to agree that creating the concept of death might not prove Acausality. Also, the underworld already existed, which might imply death already existed and it was only the altering placement of souls that changed. Still, that does mean the Reio fundamentally altered where souls go when they die. I haven't seen the whole discussion though, and I do agree the Reio has to have had some ability to operate across two conflicting time flows at once, since he either crafted the Soul Society through the Dangai or made them both near each other. That might satisfy the requirement of handling erratic time flow without effect.

 

[Worthless]

The decider of whether it's an anti-feat is whether the Almighty somehow works on Acausal beings, and whether Ichibei qualifies as having that Acausality, since he isn't the Reio.

Does Ichibei definitely have it if Reio does, and how does the ability hold up without it?

The argument doesn't revolve around Reio himself instead, it focuses on the reasoning the OP used behind Acausality type 4. Both Reio and Ichibei supposedly exist in a world where 'causality' and everything, including time, is different. However, future-seeing has been shown to have an impact on someone who also exists in a time where causality should be different, essentially debunking this reasoning itself.

Well, in DMC's case I think it had to do with the demon world having a highly unpredictable time flow where different parts of it move at different paces and parts of it loop or stop entirely, and an entirely different set of laws. Demons are stated to not have to follow the human world's laws. Still, aren't similar statements made in Bleach about the Dangai and the Cleaner?

If they are explicitly stated not to follow human world laws, that essentially debunks the idea that both are similar. However, that reasoning alone, without further context, is not really enough for Acausality type 4.

Hmmm... Based on what little I've seen of this I have to agree that creating the concept of death might not prove Acausality. Also, the underworld already existed, which might imply death already existed and it was only the altering placement of souls that changed. Still, that does mean the Reio fundamentally altered where souls go when they die. I haven't seen the whole discussion though, and I do agree the Reio has to have had some ability to operate across two conflicting time flows at once, since he either crafted the Soul Society through the Dangai or made them both near each other. That might satisfy the requirement of handling erratic time flow without effect.

No, just no. Many fictional God creators are stated to exist before everything, including the concept of life, but we don't assume it also means causality. Provide a constructive new argument, or I won't respond. Sorry.

 

[Worthless]

Most Isekai MCs were once part of a world with different laws, time, and sometimes even causality. But, upon being transported to a new world with entirely distinct temporal, laws, and foundational aspects, they become intricately connected to it. For example, Subaru from Re:Zero didn't possess Mana or a Gate before being sent to that world, but upon arrival, he suddenly gains these abilities. This phenomenon could also hold true for characters like Ichibei and Reio, unless there is evidence that opposes this, like the MCs from Genshin, for instance.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

The things you mentioned probably only cover the nerfed SK, also SK is not an isekai main character, you should stop using irrelevant prequels

 

[Robo432343]

Ngl we should just wait for staff
No ones gonna keep reading if this goes on for another 3 pages
Btw I agree

 

[Random-Helper323]

The argument doesn't revolve around Reio himself instead, it focuses on the reasoning the OP used behind Acausality type 4. Both Reio and Ichibei supposedly exist in a world where 'causality' and everything, including time, is different. However, future-seeing has been shown to have an impact on someone who also exists in a time where causality should be different, essentially debunking this reasoning itself.

Can you elaborate on that point, please? The point about future seeing affecting them? You mean Almighty affecting Ichibei, right? Wouldn't that just mean either that Ichibei doesn't have the ability or that Almighty somehow bypasses Acausality? I think that does exist in fiction, as counter-intuitive as it is.

No, just no. Many fictional God creators are stated to exist before everything, including the concept of life, but we don't assume it also means causality.

I can see how that works. Let me check the OP again, see what the argument actually was. I know time is a large part of why Acausality 4 gets given.

Provide a constructive new argument, or I won't respond. Sorry.

I'm actually neutral here. I understand you're on edge, but I'd like to ask you to relax a bit.

I'll read the earlier part of the thread to see what the argument was for Acausality. I do know weird time flow does exist in Bleach.

Update: Okay, I checked the OP. The arguments for Acausality 4 seemingly is that the Soul King created the concept of progression and stagnation and existed at a time when they operated differently, and that Orihime couldn't do anything to the Soul King.