Counters for Hasch’s Argument:
Points I disagree with:
Yhwach Stabilizing The Worlds (Again)
Considering the fact that no one but you has brought this point up about Ichibe’s claim, it's not even that much ironclad as evidence compared to Jugram’s statement, which is already on the chopping block as you can see here. Still, let’s address it.
Just like Jugrams statement, this is also inconsistent and not given as much support as you think it gets. Just as the original post already laid out, the dimensional quaking across the worlds did not happen a single time, or on any level, when Yhwach was killed by Ichigo 2x. And yes, incase it needs to be clarified, those count as deaths because Yhwach the first time had to REWRITE his first death with the Almighty to come back, which shows he was killed for a moment thanks to Aizen and Ichigo’s tag team work. Meaning, that was a true death, even if for a few moments. This should have restarted the dimensional quaking just like it happened with the Soul King and Mimihagi's death's. I will acknowledge that while its good that another statement was brought to back up Jugram, there's still something you're not acknowledging as an issue here.
We are Feats >>> Statements. At the end of the day, when it comes down to Portrayals vs Statements, portrayals are taken as the priority, because that's where consistency comes the most. Again, let's not make this into a “Sky is called red vs Sky is seen Blue'' debate, because the only way you are getting these statements to have validity here is by ignoring portrayal. And doing that is being intellectually dishonest.
I mean, the fact there's no quakes proves Ywach is holding the worlds, if he wasn't the eartquakes would have resumed after Mimihagi was absorbed.
Which is why both Haschwalt and Ichibei said he is the new linchpin and the novel explains his body was still holding the worlds after being defeated, Ywach isn't entirely dead he is a zombie like being now.
Flow of Souls Existing Before The Worlds
I'm just going to drop these quotes here before addressing this. I’ll be asking you all to pay attention to what's been bolded out please. And these quotes, by the way,
come from the thread that got accepted and made the Soul King 4-A to begin with:
"During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls."
"The monk spoke in a matter-of-fact tone; quietly reminiscing about the world that existed before the birth of Hueco Mundo and the World of the Living."
"But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."
"Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era."
Unless the thread where these quotes came from uses misinformation of some kind, or this is talking about something different from what I'm seeing, the quote’s very clearly allude to the idea that the flow of souls existed from the very beginning in the old universe. What simply happened is that the cycle ushered in “a new era” when the old universe was split into the worlds we know as of now in the Bleach Cosmology. It doesn’t mean the cycle never existed in the first place.
Besides, even if this was the case, I'm ultimately not understanding why this would matter here. The Soul King never stabilized the worlds until he became a lynchpin, which happened after the creation of the worlds. Even if the existence of the soul cycle did not come to be until the splitting of the old universe, Reio being linked to the flow of souls would still very possibly be a thing to happen here.
There was sould changing states in the same realm but that wasn't holding anything, the soul king with it's own power split the universe with the purpose of starting the cicle of souls.
Is not that the soul cycle is the tool to maintain the worlds, is that the worlds where made so there was a cycle of souls among them, but the current of soul energy is too strong and the worlds can't handle that much power going trough the. So the soul king uses it's reiatsu to protect the worlds.
It's makes no sense for the maintenance of the worlds to be based on the soul current if they existed before it, the soul current is simply a destructive force the linchpin keeps in check.
Bleach Hax Abilities Being “Reiatsu Based”
Okay this is fine. How exactly does this mean that the user’s attack potency and raw power is being directly applied into any and everything said abilities do? We know they’re “reiatsu based” because soul hax is the main bread and butter of abilities in Bleach. Has nothing to do with attack potency regularly applying. Ichigo being mentioned also has nothing to do with this point, so i'm also failing to see why he was brought up here.
Also, as a smaller sidenote, but you arguing this is just opening up the floodgates that results in hax abilities in Bleach being centered and limited around attack potency. But im sure you or no one else would like for this already in-depth discussion to go off course to discuss something like this, so i’ll just leave this point here at that.
Because Allmighty isn't reality warping, it doesn't allow the user to do things their reiatsu can't cause, same as Gremmy can't imagine attacks with more energy than his own reiatsu. There's also the fact the translation doesn't say that the SK used Allmighty.
Ichigo is important because he proves anyone can be the linchpin if they have enough reiatsu, no need for any hax. With that power level alone he would be able to fuse or split the worlds or anything he wanted. That's why if he where to be choose as the linchpin the 0 squad would cut him down so he wouldn't have freedom to use that capability.
Ywach certainly didn't use Allmighty to start fusing the worlds but pure reiatsu as can be seen in this scan.
Counter-Point: “Except that CFYOW statement is about Ywach final attack and not the earthquake from the previous chapters.”
Except no, it wasn’t? It was a statement made from Tokinada’s father about what the death of the Soul King would do to the world’s, which was why Warren tried pointing it out as a counter argument in the first place.
Yes it is, the novel said the worlds where at the edge of being fused in the battle, meaning Ywach final attack.
Offensive Reiryoku & Reiatsu & Yhwach / Reio Reiatsu Remnants
Okay, let’s get something clear here first so that everyone reading through this will be able to understand.
The point about “a casual use of it will never be greater than a focused attack” literally and completely doesn’t matter at this point when dealing with Tiers 3 and above. Or more specifically, 3-A, Low 2-C, and tiers above them. Why? Because now, we are dealing with tiers that involve infinite energy where things cannot be quantifiably divided like they could in tiers like 6-A or 5-B. Low 2-C power will always continually be Low 2-C, no matter how much it is divided into smaller amounts. Dividing it in half? It’s Low 2-C. Divided by hundreds? It’s Low 2-C. Divided by billions of times? Sextillion amount of times? Power used at 0.0000000000000001%? It is still Low 2-C, period. The only differing factor here is that these lower amounts of Low 2-C power are unquantifiably lower the more it is divided up. But it’s not going to be so much weaker upon division that it drops out of the tier. This is the basics to how Low 2-C works and why downscaling from Low 2-C is very much a thing on this site to cement characters scaling to the tier, even if just lower to unknown extents.
So in the case of Bleach here, where your side is still adamant on keeping the Weakened Soul King’s sustenance feat Low 2-C, this is the same thing. The Reiatsu would still be Low 2-C levels of power, no matter how much unquantifiably lower the divided pieces of Reiatsu would become. Reio’s gremlin monsters and the remnant of Yhwach’s Reiatsu would still be using Low 2-C power under this premise, they would just simply be much weaker than the total sum of Low 2-C power that Yhwach and Weakened Reio would have at once. So in order to even be in the presence of these Reiatsu pieces without so much as getting vaporized, much less be able to combat and destroy them, you would need to be Low 2-C still in order to do that. It’s as simple as that.
So this, again, returns to my earlier argument. Either characters as weak as Kazui to as strong as Byakuya become Low 2-C for being able to combat and destroy Low 2-C Reiatsu, or the Reiatsu being Low 2-C offensively is just much too inconsistent to be used at those levels. The choice here is yours.
And keep in mind, this is under the assumption that the Reiatsu would be Low 2-C in the first place, which the many points given here explains why it shouldn't.
That's silly, Ywach can have infinite power and discard any amount of it without it needing to be infinite. If I have an infinite amount of apples y can still give someone just 10 apples.
The weaker characters dealing with weaker spawns from Ywach isn't a proof of anything.
Garganta Being Infinite
I'll be addressing the Garganta more in my response to Arc, but i'll say this here.
Being the void between the universes has nothing to do with it’s size being infinite. You know universes & dimensions in fiction can be separated by physical distances right? Dragon Ball Super’s Multiverse can tell you that much with how it’s treated here these days.
The world of Void in DB is infinite, Garganta too is simply the nothingness between all that is.
Uryu and Antithesis
I….don't think you quite understand the purpose of the Silver Arrow argument here in this thread.
The original post brought up Silver Arrow as an anti-feat against Yhwach’s stats scaling to the upgrades because it physically penetrated him and we don't consider the Silver Arrow’s power Low 2-C, which makes it suspicious.
Warren’s counter argument tried to debunk this by arguing that the arrow entered Yhwach via Uryu using Antithesis to transport it into him, which would be a counter to it being physically shot through Yhwach.
I gave a counter argument against Warren’s to prove Uryu didnt and couldnt have used the Antithesis and just simply shot the arrow at Yhwach, which leads us back to square 1 on the original post’s argument. We know the Silver Arrow is PIS against the Almighty’s power; The point is that its an anti feat against Yhwach’s statistics from being this strong.
Why?
The arrow is made from Ywach's own power so it makes sense it would work even if Kon was the one shooting.
Is like sunlight and vampires, the energetic value of the arrow is irrelevant because it's a super effective anti-Ywach weapon.
