Bleach Downgrades (Staff Only)

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi; how about you just move on to the scaling now?

I will move on to scaling if we are in agreement that Ganju's quote is reliable and valid. Not in the sense that Yhwach is going to but just in the sense that the Garganta will be destroyed, I'm not asking you to comment on anything other than that. Once we get that established I can move into my next points.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

If I may say, id prefer to see everything laid out please before I begin to prepare a response.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If I may say, id prefer to see everything laid out please before I begin to prepare a response.

Do you agree that Ganju is a reliable source? That was one of the points mentioned in the OP that because he's fodder his statement should be disregarded. Do you concede that that point in the OP is wrong? I'm going to lay out my entire response, but it is predicated on Ganju being reliable and the Garganta being universal in size (we all agree on Garganta). So it is imperative that I have a foundation to form my arguments prior to forming them.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; let's just say for argument's sake that it is agreed upon (even though I don't see why anyone needs to commit to this before you even lay out your argument).

Now please, move on.

 

[AKM sama]

I'm going to lay out my entire response, but it is predicated on Ganju being reliable and the Garganta being universal in size (we all agree on Garganta). So it is imperative that I have a foundation to form my arguments prior to forming them.

Don't wait on others. Nobody is under any compulsion to commit to anything before you can lay out your complete argument. You've already posted your argument about Ganju. You've already posted your argument for Garganta. It's there for everybody to see and not going anywhere. Now you can post your complete point. People who want to agree/disagree can do so whenever they come online and view the thread.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi; let's just say for argument's sake that it is agreed upon (even though I don't see why anyone needs to commit to this before you even lay out your argument).

Now please, move on.

I don't want to say for arguments sake. I want a yes or no. Do you guys concede on the point within the OP that Ganju is unreliable because he's fodder, do you acknowledge him as a reliable source. I'm addressing a specific part of the OP, I'd prefer an answer that doesn't beat around the bush.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't want to say for arguments sake. I want a yes or no. Do you guys concede on the point within the OP that Ganju is unreliable because he's fodder, do you acknowledge him as a reliable source. I'm addressing a specific part of the OP, I'd prefer an answer that doesn't beat around the bush.

If we don't concede, are you going to give up on the thread?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If we don't concede, are you going to give up on the thread?

No I'm going to proceed to ask why you still believe Ganju isn't credible and then we can debate on that.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I cannot manipulate you saying "Ganju is a credible source" for any hidden agenda. I just want to know if the point that "Ganju is unreliable because he can't punch hard" has been thoroughly debunked.

 

[AKM sama]

Arc, I don't get why you are dragging it like this asking single questions to everyone and asking literally everyone to concede before moving on with your argument. Like I said, it isn't a remotely workable situation to wait on everyone who has a stake in this thread to come to an agreement about every single question you have. Post them all at once, otherwise the thread will take weeks to get done. I'd appreciate your cooperation regarding that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wait, why are you insisting the argument says Ganju's unreliable because "he cant punch hard" ? I explained throughouly on why that wasn't the reason.

 

[Damage3245]

I cannot manipulate you saying "Ganju is a credible source" for any hidden agenda. I just want to know if the point that "Ganju is unreliable because he can't punch hard" has been thoroughly debunked.

That's not the reason why I think Ganju's statement isn't reliable. So sure, him "not punching hard" I concede is not a relevant issue. Now can you move on?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Wait, why are you insisting the argument says Ganju's unreliable because "he cant punch hard" ? I explained throughouly on why that wasn't the reason.

That's not the reason why I think Ganju's statement isn't reliable. So sure, him "not punching hard" I concede is not a relevant issue. Now can you move on?

Because it was in the OP. You all gave a blanket "I agree" to the OP. So, I assume you agree with it all unless said otherwise. Now why do we think Ganju isn't reliable after the post I made on his credibility.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; move on to your actual argument, or just stop altogether. This stalling is seriously tiresome.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Arc7Kuroi I understand why you want to do a point by point debate, but that format doesn't really work here, first of all, this isn't a one on one debate/discussion, both you and Kukui are making arguments to convince the majority of staff to side with you, not everyone has time to sit down at the same time and agree on every single point one by one and it leads to a mess of disjointed comments that everyone who looks at this CRT will have to look at and try to understand

Can they do that if they tried to read it all? Yes, of course, but most of the time staff and people don't have the patience to listen and wave through the many different comments here, hence why we encourage people to lay out their full argument in one big post that covers everything they need to say, this also makes it easy to look over when you look back at this thread as all of the points will be laid out in one post, the point by point might work on a voice debate, but in text form, it definitely doesn't work

Doing the point by point thing has led to dodging the main core arguments of Kukui and myself

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Just as Warren says it's possible for Ganju to be credible per his place in a royal clan, it's also entirely possible he isn’t. Ganju is just an ordinary person. He isn’t Urahara, Yoruichi, Yhwach or anyone who’s shown to be well experienced in matters regarding the state or makeup of their own universe, he is someone with little importance in the verse and makes the idea of him being knowledgeable on very important information like this just because of his standing in a royal clan debatable. This has nothing to do with the power of the character, it has to do with their experience and if they're a credible source to take. This is to akin to just slapping 3-A on any character because of some rando saying they would destroy the universe, which we obviously wouldnt take as any evidence. Hence, we look at that character's history to determine if they're someone reasonably trustworthy to take their word on without leaving ourselves open to inflating feats. And this is the same thing with Ganju. You have to go off possibilities and, once again, mental gymnastics to try and make this statement stick.

Even then, the original post already explained why Ganju’s statement wouldnt apply to Yhwach, credibility or no credibility. But the apparent bombshell evidence that Yhwach could 100% effect the Garganta comes from the fact that he planned to?

Here is why I say he is credible as opposed to possibly not. You even imply Yoruichi is credible.
Ganju's Statement (sounds like I'm putting this man on trial)

• Ganju says, "if we lose, Garganta will be gone too!!"

Ganju's Credibility

• Ganju is a Shiba, a member of one of the Noble Houses within Bleach that despite being exiled from nobility, still works directly with Squad Zero. Throughout CFYOW we discover that in terms of who's qualified to speak on the machinations of the Soul King it goes: Nobility (they have access to a special library and have been historically the closest to the Soul King and Squad Zero), Captains and certain seated officers (were divulged information due to being directly in the war and weren't given any censored information regarding the war), and finally commoners and fodder Shinigami (were informed of a falsified version of the events of the war). Due to Ganju being of nobility and being in direct contact with Squad Zero, he is one of the more credible sources for receiving information involving the Soul King.
• When Ganju makes his claim he is in the presence of Yoruichi, as she was launched with them to Reiokyu. Yoruichi is a member of the Shihoin Noble family and closest friend (debatably romantic partner) of Kisuke. Kisuke is someone who we discover at the end of the Deicide chapters is aware of the Soul King and its purpose. This is important because Yoruichi being a non-exiled royal family member and someone who works directly with Kisuke would be even more qualified (if not one of the most qualified) individuals to comment on the nature of the Soul King, and she does not interrupt or contradict Ganju. Silence is acquiescence and Yoruichi not correcting Ganju is equivalent to silent affirmation of Ganju's statement.
• I want to also address that only Ganju insinuates that the Garganta will be destroyed as a falsehood. Here and here Yhwach and Ichibe imply that not just the three realms, but everything connected (which includes the Garganta) will collapse. So while they don't inherently make the same claim as Ganju, they still indirectly support Ganju's claim. Also, Ichigo being someone well adept at sensory capabilities since the beginning of the series (he learned the spirit ribbon search on his first try) doesn't question the claims either, and comments that the fight will be dangerous as if to support Ganju's notion.

So, to sum things up we have a statement from a Noble family member who works in tandem with Squad Zero, that isn't corrected/silently supported by another Noble family member who works in tandem with Kisuke, and the Squad Zero Captain as well as the son of the Soul King indirectly supporting said claim. The claim in question being that the Garganta will be destroyed. Thus I believe there's a high degree of support and credibility behind Ganju's statement.

@Arc7Kuroi; move on to your actual argument, or just stop altogether. This stalling is seriously tiresome.

I'm not stalling and stop assuming my intent, you forcing me to explain myself over and over again only derails the thread. I have said over and over and over again why I want to establish these two points first. I do not have time to write bibles day in and day out. SO I take things piece meal. Like Jesus ****, I only have to keep repeating myself because no one wants to comply.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Because it was in the OP. You all gave a blanket "I agree" to the OP.

No, I didn't. I made a very detailed comment on why Ganju's credibility as a source of info had nothing to do with his strength Arc. Didnt you read this in my counters?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No, I didn't. I made a very detailed comment on why Ganju's credibility as a source of info had nothing to do with his strength Arc. Didnt you read this in my counters?

Yes I did and I proved why Ganju is credible, that blanket "I agree" statement wasn't directly targeted at you.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; okay, so you and Kukui disagree on Ganju's credibility. Are you going to move on to the next point or are you two going to be stuck at an impasse on this point for the rest of time?

 

[AKM sama]

I have said over and over and over again why I want to establish these two points first.

You have already established those points by making arguments for them. Now move on. People can agree/disagree with them any time they want. There is no compulsion for them to agree right away as most of them are not here atm. And you are not supposed to wait for everyone's agreement before making more arguments.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay, now I will be formulating a response to the stuff given by Arc and Hasch.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Okay, now I will be formulating a response to the stuff given by Arc and Hasch.

I can't respond for Hasch but I look forward to seeing how you view my stance on Ganju's credibility.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

"If non-staff want to be here they should go through the standard procedure of getting a staff member to vouch for them."

I vouch for Hasch so that he comes and comment to defend his arguments

 

[Damage3245]

"If non-staff want to be here they should go through the standard procedure of getting a staff member to vouch for them."

I vouch for Hasch so that he comes and comment to defend his arguments

Okay, Hasch can respond to Kukui's counter-argument.

 

[Hasch]

Counters for Hasch’s Argument: ​

Points I disagree with:​

Yhwach Stabilizing The Worlds (Again)​

Considering the fact that no one but you has brought this point up about Ichibe’s claim, it's not even that much ironclad as evidence compared to Jugram’s statement, which is already on the chopping block as you can see here. Still, let’s address it.

Just like Jugrams statement, this is also inconsistent and not given as much support as you think it gets. Just as the original post already laid out, the dimensional quaking across the worlds did not happen a single time, or on any level, when Yhwach was killed by Ichigo 2x. And yes, incase it needs to be clarified, those count as deaths because Yhwach the first time had to REWRITE his first death with the Almighty to come back, which shows he was killed for a moment thanks to Aizen and Ichigo’s tag team work. Meaning, that was a true death, even if for a few moments. This should have restarted the dimensional quaking just like it happened with the Soul King and Mimihagi's death's. I will acknowledge that while its good that another statement was brought to back up Jugram, there's still something you're not acknowledging as an issue here.

We are Feats >>> Statements. At the end of the day, when it comes down to Portrayals vs Statements, portrayals are taken as the priority, because that's where consistency comes the most. Again, let's not make this into a “Sky is called red vs Sky is seen Blue'' debate, because the only way you are getting these statements to have validity here is by ignoring portrayal. And doing that is being intellectually dishonest.

I mean, the fact there's no quakes proves Ywach is holding the worlds, if he wasn't the eartquakes would have resumed after Mimihagi was absorbed.

Which is why both Haschwalt and Ichibei said he is the new linchpin and the novel explains his body was still holding the worlds after being defeated, Ywach isn't entirely dead he is a zombie like being now.

Flow of Souls Existing Before The Worlds​

I'm just going to drop these quotes here before addressing this. I’ll be asking you all to pay attention to what's been bolded out please. And these quotes, by the way, come from the thread that got accepted and made the Soul King 4-A to begin with:

"During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls."

"The monk spoke in a matter-of-fact tone; quietly reminiscing about the world that existed before the birth of Hueco Mundo and the World of the Living."

"But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."

"Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era."

Unless the thread where these quotes came from uses misinformation of some kind, or this is talking about something different from what I'm seeing, the quote’s very clearly allude to the idea that the flow of souls existed from the very beginning in the old universe. What simply happened is that the cycle ushered in “a new era” when the old universe was split into the worlds we know as of now in the Bleach Cosmology. It doesn’t mean the cycle never existed in the first place.

Besides, even if this was the case, I'm ultimately not understanding why this would matter here. The Soul King never stabilized the worlds until he became a lynchpin, which happened after the creation of the worlds. Even if the existence of the soul cycle did not come to be until the splitting of the old universe, Reio being linked to the flow of souls would still very possibly be a thing to happen here.

There was sould changing states in the same realm but that wasn't holding anything, the soul king with it's own power split the universe with the purpose of starting the cicle of souls.

Is not that the soul cycle is the tool to maintain the worlds, is that the worlds where made so there was a cycle of souls among them, but the current of soul energy is too strong and the worlds can't handle that much power going trough the. So the soul king uses it's reiatsu to protect the worlds.

It's makes no sense for the maintenance of the worlds to be based on the soul current if they existed before it, the soul current is simply a destructive force the linchpin keeps in check.

Bleach Hax Abilities Being “Reiatsu Based”​

Okay this is fine. How exactly does this mean that the user’s attack potency and raw power is being directly applied into any and everything said abilities do? We know they’re “reiatsu based” because soul hax is the main bread and butter of abilities in Bleach. Has nothing to do with attack potency regularly applying. Ichigo being mentioned also has nothing to do with this point, so i'm also failing to see why he was brought up here.

Also, as a smaller sidenote, but you arguing this is just opening up the floodgates that results in hax abilities in Bleach being centered and limited around attack potency. But im sure you or no one else would like for this already in-depth discussion to go off course to discuss something like this, so i’ll just leave this point here at that.

Because Allmighty isn't reality warping, it doesn't allow the user to do things their reiatsu can't cause, same as Gremmy can't imagine attacks with more energy than his own reiatsu. There's also the fact the translation doesn't say that the SK used Allmighty.

Ichigo is important because he proves anyone can be the linchpin if they have enough reiatsu, no need for any hax. With that power level alone he would be able to fuse or split the worlds or anything he wanted. That's why if he where to be choose as the linchpin the 0 squad would cut him down so he wouldn't have freedom to use that capability.

Ywach certainly didn't use Allmighty to start fusing the worlds but pure reiatsu as can be seen in this scan.

Counter-Point: “Except that CFYOW statement is about Ywach final attack and not the earthquake from the previous chapters.”​

Except no, it wasn’t? It was a statement made from Tokinada’s father about what the death of the Soul King would do to the world’s, which was why Warren tried pointing it out as a counter argument in the first place.

Yes it is, the novel said the worlds where at the edge of being fused in the battle, meaning Ywach final attack.

Offensive Reiryoku & Reiatsu & Yhwach / Reio Reiatsu Remnants​

Okay, let’s get something clear here first so that everyone reading through this will be able to understand.

The point about “a casual use of it will never be greater than a focused attack” literally and completely doesn’t matter at this point when dealing with Tiers 3 and above. Or more specifically, 3-A, Low 2-C, and tiers above them. Why? Because now, we are dealing with tiers that involve infinite energy where things cannot be quantifiably divided like they could in tiers like 6-A or 5-B. Low 2-C power will always continually be Low 2-C, no matter how much it is divided into smaller amounts. Dividing it in half? It’s Low 2-C. Divided by hundreds? It’s Low 2-C. Divided by billions of times? Sextillion amount of times? Power used at 0.0000000000000001%? It is still Low 2-C, period. The only differing factor here is that these lower amounts of Low 2-C power are unquantifiably lower the more it is divided up. But it’s not going to be so much weaker upon division that it drops out of the tier. This is the basics to how Low 2-C works and why downscaling from Low 2-C is very much a thing on this site to cement characters scaling to the tier, even if just lower to unknown extents.

So in the case of Bleach here, where your side is still adamant on keeping the Weakened Soul King’s sustenance feat Low 2-C, this is the same thing. The Reiatsu would still be Low 2-C levels of power, no matter how much unquantifiably lower the divided pieces of Reiatsu would become. Reio’s gremlin monsters and the remnant of Yhwach’s Reiatsu would still be using Low 2-C power under this premise, they would just simply be much weaker than the total sum of Low 2-C power that Yhwach and Weakened Reio would have at once. So in order to even be in the presence of these Reiatsu pieces without so much as getting vaporized, much less be able to combat and destroy them, you would need to be Low 2-C still in order to do that. It’s as simple as that.

So this, again, returns to my earlier argument. Either characters as weak as Kazui to as strong as Byakuya become Low 2-C for being able to combat and destroy Low 2-C Reiatsu, or the Reiatsu being Low 2-C offensively is just much too inconsistent to be used at those levels. The choice here is yours.

And keep in mind, this is under the assumption that the Reiatsu would be Low 2-C in the first place, which the many points given here explains why it shouldn't.

That's silly, Ywach can have infinite power and discard any amount of it without it needing to be infinite. If I have an infinite amount of apples y can still give someone just 10 apples.

The weaker characters dealing with weaker spawns from Ywach isn't a proof of anything.

Garganta Being Infinite​

I'll be addressing the Garganta more in my response to Arc, but i'll say this here.

Being the void between the universes has nothing to do with it’s size being infinite. You know universes & dimensions in fiction can be separated by physical distances right? Dragon Ball Super’s Multiverse can tell you that much with how it’s treated here these days.

The world of Void in DB is infinite, Garganta too is simply the nothingness between all that is.

Uryu and Antithesis​

I….don't think you quite understand the purpose of the Silver Arrow argument here in this thread.

The original post brought up Silver Arrow as an anti-feat against Yhwach’s stats scaling to the upgrades because it physically penetrated him and we don't consider the Silver Arrow’s power Low 2-C, which makes it suspicious.

Warren’s counter argument tried to debunk this by arguing that the arrow entered Yhwach via Uryu using Antithesis to transport it into him, which would be a counter to it being physically shot through Yhwach.

I gave a counter argument against Warren’s to prove Uryu didnt and couldnt have used the Antithesis and just simply shot the arrow at Yhwach, which leads us back to square 1 on the original post’s argument. We know the Silver Arrow is PIS against the Almighty’s power; The point is that its an anti feat against Yhwach’s statistics from being this strong.

Why?

The arrow is made from Ywach's own power so it makes sense it would work even if Kon was the one shooting.

Is like sunlight and vampires, the energetic value of the arrow is irrelevant because it's a super effective anti-Ywach weapon.

 

[Damage3245]

@Reio35; take it to Arc7Kuroi's wall.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I do agree with AKM that this conversation is kinda deraily and losing the focus of the discussion, which ar the downgrades.

 

[LordGinSama]

Can we perhaps put this on hold for Imade? He's already gonna have to reply to two large walls of text as it is, patience is a virtue.

 

[Damage3245]

We have already waited a long time for IMade. If he wants to still get involved, he can later.

I'm more concerned with @Arc7Kuroi either getting to his argument or dropping the topic. If Arc7 is going to refuse to actually defend the current justifications for the ratings on the profile, I have to ask if he is willing to concede on anything more?

 

[Antvasima]

"If non-staff want to be here they should go through the standard procedure of getting a staff member to vouch for them."

I vouch for Hasch so that he comes and comment to defend his arguments

You are not an external forum staff member, and do not have that authority.

In addition, you have behaved in a very irresponsible, incendiary, and disrespectful manner lately that is very unbefitting of a staff member here, and refused to respond to my PMs to you about it in combination.

 

[Antvasima]

Arc, I don't get why you are dragging it like this asking single questions to everyone and asking literally everyone to concede before moving on with your argument. Like I said, it isn't a remotely workable situation to wait on everyone who has a stake in this thread to come to an agreement about every single question you have. Post them all at once, otherwise the thread will take weeks to get done. I'd appreciate your cooperation regarding that.

This seems sensible to me.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m waiting for Kukui to respond to the Ganju point like he said he was going to be patient.

I’m not home at the moment.

I’ll repeat myself: I DONT have time to sit down and write up an entire Bible defending my entire argument, hence I come at it piece meal style. I don’t get what you all don’t understand when I say I DONT have time to type bibles. I’m no longer on break, classes are back in session, pardon me for not being able to respond to everything at once. Sincerely step off my back please.

 

[LordGinSama]

Like I said, put this on hold.

We have already waited a long time for IMade. If he wants to still get involved, he can later.

That doesn't matter, he's a college student who's busy. School just started, let's not being impatient and rush this thread. Your entire side was complaining about the previous threads and the opposing side not being able to give counter arguments before it was closed. So now you wanna do the very same thing you were complaining about huh? And less than a week isn't a long time. Simply put the thread on pause and wait for the main Bleach supporters to get free time in order to address the arguments at hand, otherwise this is a completely unfair practice.

I'm more concerned with @Arc7Kuroi either getting to his argument or dropping the topic. If Arc7 is going to refuse to actually defend the current justifications for the ratings on the profile, I have to ask if he is willing to concede on anything more?

He's also busy, another reason to put this on hold.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That doesn't matter, he's a college student who's busy. School just started, let's not being impatient and rush this thread. Your entire side was complaining about the previous threads and the opposing side not being able to give counter arguments before it was closed. So now you wanna do the very same thing you were complaining about huh?

Okay no, dont use that excuse. All of us have pretty much re-started school at this point. I'll be restarting school in a matter of days myself, and I still have the free time to respond to this thread and give counters in full. We understand IMades busy, but we dont have the time to leave this unresolved for extensive periods of time. If he wants to have a part in this, he can come later to do so, like we do with any CRT.

And no, the complaints werent that we were "not being able to give counter arguments before it was closed". The complaints were that the thread was rushed in the span of a day for a controversial upgrade for a popular series, which everyone on both sides can say is a huge no on how that was handled. This thread has already taken much longer than the upgrade thread has in a week or less, like any normal CRT is handled. Don't call people out here on "doing the very same thing" when they aren't.

And less than a week isn't a long time. Simply put the thread on pause and wait for the main Bleach supporters to get free time in order to address the arguments at hand, otherwise this is a completely unfair practice.

He's also busy, another reason to put this on hold.

Then again, he can come later and give an argument to go against the downgrades. We don't stop CRT's or put them on pause to wait for people. Downgrades go through all the time, and threads are re-made later by people who care enough and have the time to explain why they are against it.

Same deal here.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m not saying to stop the CRT. I’m just telling y’all why I can’t make these long ass posts and why instead I tackle it piece meal.

 

[Qawsedf234]

We have already waited a long time for IMade. If he wants to still get involved, he can later

Yeah, it's been long enough. Its understandable that he is busy, but we don't need Imade's blessing for any changes. He's just generally knowledgeable about the series, which is why I felt his input would be valuable for the topic at hand.

 

[AKM sama]

I’m not saying to stop the CRT. I’m just telling y’all why I can’t make these long ass posts and why instead I tackle it piece meal.

For someone who doesn't have time to write your entire argument at once, you sure spent an awful lot of time explaining why you don't have that time and from what I can see, your approach of stalling the thread is wasting more of yours and everybody's time.

I'm gonna be honest here. Looks like the questions you are asking were not even the original reasons for why the upgrade happened. They are not the reasons why this thread was made. So if you are not tackling any relevant points from the past discussion anymore, then I think the matter has been settled and you are derailing with new stuff that's not relevant. Of course I wouldn't know how relevant it is until you post your entire argument, but the way I see it, the original topic of this thread has already been discussed.

And we are all busy with our lives too, you know. We don't have time to come online and respond to your single questions and get everybody in agreement before you ask another question and so on. We can analyze what you have to say whenever we can if it's all written down in a single cohesive comment. If you want to continue debating the topic, step it up and post your actual argument like I told you to. Point by point, in a single comment. If you can't, or aren't willing to, I see no reason to continue with this derailment. And if you don't have sufficient time, you can always come back when you do and create another thread to bring up these new things. As I can see, we're done here.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

For someone who doesn't have time to write your entire argument at once, you sure spent an awful lot of time explaining why you don't have that time and from what I can see, your approach of stalling the thread is wasting more of yours and everybody's time.

I'm gonna be honest here. Looks like the questions you are asking were not even the original reasons for why the upgrade happened. They are not the reasons why this thread was made. So if you are not tackling any relevant points from the past discussion anymore, then I think the matter has been settled and you are derailing with new stuff that's not relevant. Of course I wouldn't know how relevant it is until you post your entire argument, but the way I see it, the original topic of this thread has already been discussed.

And we are all busy with our lives too, you know. We don't have time to come online and respond to your single questions and get everybody in agreement before you ask another question and so on. We can analyze what you have to say whenever we can if it's all written down in a single cohesive comment. If you want to continue debating the topic, step it up and post your actual argument like I told you to. Point by point, in a single comment. If you can't, or aren't willing to, I see no reason to continue with this derailment. And if you don't have sufficient time, you can always come back when you do and create another thread to bring up these new things. As I can see, we're done here.

So pretentious, as this isn't pertinent to the God Tiers (while my points on the Garganta and Ganju are), I'm going to request you practice what you preach and quit derailing. I'll get to points in a logical flow when I get there, we are all busy so be patient, with time you'll see my whole argument.

However, instead of bellyaching over me not being able to compile the whole argument, you could instead be constructive and respond to the points I've made. If not don't say anything at all, it's that simple.

To help put an end to this massive derail, I will no longer respond to any posts that don't relate to the God Tiers.

 

[AKM sama]

Looks like you have that kind of time after all, if you have time to reply to every comment. No, your recent points are not relevant to the original subject matter for why this thread was created and why the upgrade initially happened. This is classic stonewalling and delaying tactic where you are just stalling for as long as you can without making any argument. If your intention is that you're only going to make your advance when everybody is on the same page regarding every one of your questions, kindly make questions and answer threads, get your questions answered there, and then create a new thread. Stop wasting everybody's time, we are not gonna do that here. Thank you.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

If he does respond by tonight / tomorrow, that is fine. I will provide counters afterwards for that as well.