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Classic Ben 10 profiles are outdated as they were made in 2018 era back when this websites Forums doesn't even existed. There are soooo many abilities Ben can have I have seen arguments left and right but nobody focuses on those pages.
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Blackheart Attempts to Conquer Another Demon (7-0-0) GRACE
- Thread starter Isaiah_ZaMangaka
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Classic Ben 10 deserves the sauce, hopeful it can get a glow up
In that case, I would say Blackheart resists the mind control, but like Isaiah said, the transmutation is another story. That’s likely gonna still make it a wincon for Dagon
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Lonkitt hug 
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- #44
Ah I just realized, is the mind manipulation Dagon's go-to attack option? Cuz if i can remember from watching the show myself, that's one of the first things he did.
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It's one of the first thing he did.
He has other attacks he used against George as well such as Lighting and Energy beams.
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- #48
In addition to that, he could also corrupt his soul or make him go into despair
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He resurrects people idk if he can resurrect himself, but he can survive his heart being separated from his body.
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Also Dagon should have Fear Manipulation since Lucubra Vilgax also has it and Dagon gave his powers to Vilgax.
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- #52
So like the Iron Man vs Retaliator Armor fight, it all comes down to who gets the first hit in
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Blackheart has flight, teleportation, portal creation, and can shapeshift for some surprising mobility. So he definitely has the mobility to get in the first attack. He also has telepathy, so that may actually give him the chance he needs to react to Dagon’s first attack before it happens
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Dagon also has these abilities he can shapeshift between his Cthulu-esque form and Dragon form.
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- #55
So going over everything that's been mentioned:
Blackheart Win-Cons:
Also it seems Blackheart has higher stamina AND intelligence, that should be noteworthy
Blackheart Win-Cons:
- Can absorb or corrupt Dagon's soul (Win by Death/Incapacitation)
- Can drive Dagon into despair (Win by Incapacitation)
- Turning Blackheart into an Esoterica
Also it seems Blackheart has higher stamina AND intelligence, that should be noteworthy
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Dagon has telepathy? I didn’t see it on there, but I wanna double check with you if he has it
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Where does Blackheart's Class Y LS come from? If Dagon has a higher LS he could probably restrain him like he did with Ult. Waybig
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Upscaling characters who can break out of Galactus’ grasp (Galctus uses both hands during this), with Galactus being able to fit an entire planet in one hand
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I'm not so sure about telepathy, but I think he was able to communicate through his dimension if that counts.
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Is there a calc for it?
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- #61
It seems he was able to speak through Gwen too if I'm not mistaken?
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Yeah he can communicate through his subjects but that's not really telepathy no?
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No. It definitely upscales baseline Class Y though, if that helps. Admittedly though, I don’t think restraining would be as effective should Dagon be capable of it here, since Blackheart often makes himself intangible to avoid attacks if he can’t dodge/evade them himself, or could simply teleport out of it
I don’t think that would qualify as the same type of telepathy Blackheart has. So I would say that’s an advantage Blackheart has over Dagon for sure
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Hm, I'd personally say it is
And to answer this, it seems MvC's Class Y is baseline
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It’d be above baseline since Galactus can hold an entire planet in one hand, and his crushing move involves both hands
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Oh yeah. Another ability that I think would oddly come in handy is Blackheart’s shapeshifting in regards to LS. He can turn himself into a puddle or form blades from his body as well as use his hair in a similar matter. So if he was restrained, then he has a lot of counter options
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People use Retaliator armor in debates ? That's a....first timer.
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- #68
I was searching in the archives for that one, lol
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- #69
A friend mentioned how that fight was Stark vs Galvan tech, so that was interesting to see
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Anyways to get back on track, it seems restraint won't work. And Blackheart ultimately seems to have a skill advantage too. However, the mind manipulation of Dagon is a game changer indeed
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ooooh I'll see if I can come up with somethin'Maybe you could suggest me some Shock Rock matches
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Alright so Blackheart upscales from baseline Class Y, just like Dagon except Cthulhu wannabe MASSIVLEY upscales from 2.82450541 × 10^24 kg. Although I don't think he can restrain him because of BH's intangibility.
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Spectral hug
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- #76
Same here tbh, the primary win-con for Dagon that has me in between is the transmutation
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- #78
And it's in the form of waves too, so it's not like Blackheart can dodge them (unless he was to teleport out of range, cuz like said before, the battlefield is in Hell)
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Alright, counted (for now)
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That's where I think the telepathy comes in handy, since Blackheart has the chance to act a little faster on those
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