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Blackbeard vs Black Dragon

VindictiveLoser said:
@Enryu If it's going to be this divisive in the future, I'd say yes.
I also have yet to see anything proving Acno can eat non-magical things. I'm willing to believe he can, but I'd like proof before I use it in my reasoning to any large degree.
Click to expand...
But this is already happening, is already being divisive and is becoming confused, a review thread about Acnologia eating non-magic powers should be created as soon as possible
 
No Prob, just count the votes and decide the winner after everyone votes, it's all opinion based anyway
 
Enryu The Red Tower said:
@Demon
Should a thread be created to enter into a consensus about Acnologia by eating non-magic powers in versus threads? As they did with logia users in One Piece?
Click to expand...
I'll read whole FT again in the future and provide evidence for every single thing I can provide such as how I did in the Poison related's thread before. If you have some input for that I'd greatly appreciated it if you shared it.
 
@Enryu I know, I said "in the future" but I suppose it would have fit my intent better to say "If it's going to continue being this divisive". I assumed saying "this divisive" referring to this thread would be enough to get that message across so I didn't bother going any farther with it. I'll try to be clearer next time.
 
This match most likely should not be considered, probably this match will not be more relevant after the possible Review Thread on Acnologia by eating non-magical powers in the future
 
This is such a long thread.

Just going by the OP's prompt, I'd vote for Blackbeard via superior AP and Acnologia's lack of AoE to destroy Tenrou in his human form. Human Acnologia is rated as such for physically ripping through God Serena, a physical match with Teach is gonna leave Acno dead imo.
 
@Calaca Vs

I really wanted to be able to help you, but unfortunately I can not, but I just wanted to quoted about this possible Thread Review about Acnologa eating non-magic that no one had yet thought of, since almost all this thread was summing up to this
 
Acno: 7 (Dragon, Garg, Aubin, Judge, Acno, Erco, 1997)

Incon: 1 (Vin)

BB: 6 ( Rin,Sir, Dot,Str, Calaca Vs, IMade)

still believe this should maybe be closed due to uncertainties about Acnologia
 
@Mitch

You can make a CRT to laydown a note of Acnologia in his page, once accepted then this would be closed with one winning solidly or concluded as inconclusive.
 
If it's going to take a while to gather the info for the CRT in the first place, there's no reason not to finish this now. If it's no longer applicable for whatever reason by that time it'll be removed and can be remade then. That's how vs matches are handled by default, so trying to avoid doing that now makes no sense, especially when we don't even know if any potential changes will affect this match's outcome.
 
VindictiveLoser said:
Quick question, how would Acno deal with Shima Yurashi? It's on BBs profile so I won't bother explaining it, but it's one of the basic abilities of Whitebeard's DF, along with cracking the air and causing quakes. BB in character would likely start with the quake powers he stole since they're faster and harder to dodge along with having higher range, and would likely only start using his gravity as a means to trap Acno in one place to make him easier to hit.

As for Acno eating his attacks, shadows I'm leaning toward yes since there's a very similar ability in FT, quakes less so. They are vibrations but it's not produced by him directly, but rather as a byproduct of his attacks. Kaishin, cracking the air with strikes, sends shockwaves through everything in the direction it is facing. This includes the ground, air, and Acno's body. Saying Acno could eat it is like saying Acno could eat someone's voice, because some magic uses sound(which by the way, if that did happen props to the writer for thinking of that, cause I think that'd be amazing). This is the main reason I wanted to clarify his ability to eat elements, because saying "he can eat anything" and leaving it at that is an NLF. I also don't recall anyone providing direct evidence of Acno eating something that wasn't magic, but I was willing to leave it until now because I wasn't invested in debating at the time.

Though I still have no plans to vote. If I had to I'd say inconclusive for now, since if BB starts with only shadows he powers Acno up and then stops using them, making it a more even fight that begins to tilt in Acno's favour the longer it drags on, whereas using any of his Gura Gura abilities would work far better, and if it was shown to work he wouldn't have a reason to change his strategy. Acno's first move is largely irrelevant, as his main win condition here seems to be outlasting and winning over time as opposed to BBs main advantage being the slight power difference.

Starting distance means neither will be outranging the other so it comes down to the other factors, mainly their abilities but the terrain as well to a lesser extent. Acno has the terrain advantage, thanks to it being an island he could destroy over the course of their battle, which would increase the chances of BB being thrown into the water resulting in his death. However, I can't vote for Acno based purely on that and his other abilities, along with the questionable nature of his DS powers and the way they've been explained, isn't enough to conclusively put him ahead.

On the other hand, BB can win by overpowering from the beginning with Quakes, which he can use in melee or at range and will likely be starting with at this distance, or by wearing Acno down over time with his slight power advantage and quake powers. Both are things he would do and are pretty similar strategies, along with being very simple. I have no doubt BB could use a strategy akin to this, but once they're in melee range he will try to draw Acno in with his darkness powers to hold him down long enough to deal major damage. His ability to absorb would also work to some degree on ranged attacks, so in terms of a ranged battle I'd say they're even. CqC is more debatable since BB will be feeling more pain from and hits, but he's durable enough to last a while against comparable opponents.

In terms of stamina I'd say BB edges out, but only due to him having a more definitive and provable rating as opposed to Acno's " extremely high". That alone isn't much of an advantage, but seeing as Acno's main win condition here is based on outlasting BB that makes it somewhat more difficult(dunking him still works fine, but Acno doesn't know to do that so it happening would have to be as a natural result of the battle which could take a while). I'd be willing to compromise and say they're about even in the stamina department since neither should be incredibly higher than the other anyway.

So yeah, if I had to vote it'd be inconclusive. BB has enough to pull out a win, but he could just as easily lose. It's a surprisingly even match, more so than I expected when first thinking about it. I can't quite remember, but didn't BB have some attraction power that pulled his target toward himself? I think it only worked on DF users but I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
Scans?
 
@Celestial Did you really just quote a massive wall of text and reply by asking for scans, without even saying what you're referring to? If it's for the last ability I mentioned, I was asking other OP fans since it's been a while since I read that chapter and I wasn't sure. I know he did something like that to Ace which is why I thought it worked purely on DF users. The entry on his profile seems to indicate it works on anyone but I figured it was possible someone forgot to list that drawback, or considered it irrelevent for whatever reason.

As for posting scans, I usually just go off whatever's shown on the profiles. That's why I generally reference them the most, and I try not to refer to any outside sources. I probably have at least a few times in that post since I was pretty tired/sick writing it, but there shouldn't have been anything too confusing or that required extensive proving. I'll try to justify everything I said in a moment.

I reference BBs ability to draw in and absorb things as a semi-counter/defense to Acno's ranged attacks since scans were posted previously of it being used to absorb a town, and it's stated on the profile to work on energy. I also said it was only somewhat a counter since I don't think it's fair for me to say that BB will negate every ranged attack Acno throws.

Stamina wise, BB has a more comprehensive reasoning with proper justification, as opposed to a fairly barebones entry for Acno that doesn't elaborate at all. Knowing this I assumed that they were either even or BB's was higher, albeit only slightly and I didn't use it as justification for my final verdict.

Arguing that Acno can eat all of BBs attacks comes across to me as an NLF or a misrepresentation of his abilities, partially due to the fact that I've asked several times for someone to prove he can eat non-magical things and nobody has. Just reading through his profile doesn't seem to indicate that it's something he's ever done but I also didn't want to assume it was impossible without giving those arguing for his side an opportunity to correct what might've been a massive mistake.

If it's for BBs first move, that's much easier to explain. BB has access to darkness and quake abilities, of the two quake is the stronger ability with higher range. Starting at a range of 100 meters, he will do one of two things.

1. He will attract Acno to himself, assuming this is possible. There are two possibilities from this point. Either it only works on DF users and it doesn't work, alerting him to the fact that Acno isn't a DF user. Or it works and he follows up with a quake.

2. He attacks with his two main quake attacks, those being moving the air to shift the environment around him and cracking the air to produce shockwaves, to assault Acno from a distance while drawing closer.

In either of these instances BB will be trying to grab onto Acno to negate what he assumes are powers from a DF ability, assuming BB doesn't yet know Acno isn't a DF user.

Regarding his usage of shadows, BB will stop using them if he sees that Acno can eat them. I'd be against saying he'll never use them but it won't be to attack as much as restrain, as that's the main ability of his darkness powers. He also won't spam ranged attacks with the intent of winning that way, but his slight power advantage means Acno can't afford to tank all his attacks for the whole match. As much as I said Acno wins if he drags the fight out, even that isn't guaranteed. Hence my choice of inconclusive.

If there's anything else you need clarified I'll try to explain myself better.
 
^dude......... 1)acno never show any stamina problem idk why you mention it 2)acno can eat bb attack, all slayer showed to eat non-magic attack like Natsu eating normal fire,sting eats arrow,gajeel eat iron etc. (Now counter for your points) 1)acno is not dumb either he can do the same with bb using his own telekinesis,or blast up the ground where bb is standing, or just release body aura explosion 2)again it can be counter to his telekinesis or his explosion aura easily

Honestly, this is a stupid matchup, we are assuming that this acno is just high6-C while there is no difference between this acno or dragom acno. And acno feat is a casual feat,pretty sure this acno ap is some from Irene, who summon D.S. but neither irene or august have power to even stand against him Btw here my reason why acno take it(with scan)
 
I was mostly referring to BB most likely using his Quake ability. Can you show scans of that.

Where BB is put in a situation and he uses quake instead of his Shadows.
 
And no it isn't a representation. Acno literally said all forms of magic won't work and was proven.

The only magic that did work was Fairy Sphere making him Invunerable and Paralyzed so Natsu could him him with an attack. If it weren't for that he would've won the entire war.
 
@1997

1. I didn't say he had a stamina problem, read my post again more carefully. I said his stamina justification didn't go any further than stating it was very high, which isn't good for determining whose is higher. I even said they're likely even and that it doesn't effect my verdict.

2. Natsu can eat natural fire because he's the DS of fire, not of magic fire. Acno is specifically the DS of magic, and nobody has shown him eating natural fire or metal or anything yet, aside from magic. At this point, it's seeming more likely that he never actually shows the capability to do it but everyone assumes he can for no reason.

1.2 I didn't say Acno is dumb. Anywhere. I'm already getting tired debating with you. If you're going to misrepresent my statements this blatantly I'm probably just going to leave. Either you can't read properly or you're trolling, either way I don't have time for you. BBs move isn't TK, it's gravity. He draws you towards himself naturally. Comparing it to TK is misunderstanding the skill as it's closer to gravity manipulation.

2.2 So Acno will counter being thrown into the sky and bombarded with shockwaves that pass through the environment as well as his own body...by using Tk and explosions? I stated this was something that would be done at range, how would destroying the area around himself help Acno at all?

If you have any good points you're not presenting them very well.

@Celestial He isn't necessarily more likely in any given scenario to use quakes, but it's his stronger offensive power and has better effective range. He could resort to using both at once, but darkness is used to trap or attract opponents and quakes are primarily used at range to attack. Darkness abilities don't have poor range, but in terms of combat power they're weaker than quakes. It's more due to the attraction + DF power cancellation that makes them viable in-verse, since most top-tiers are DF users and can't fight as well with their powers gone.
 
I can't believe I'm typing this again, but Acno is the DS of magic. Magic, not fire, metal, sky, or lightning. Magic. He has been shown and proven to be capable of eating anything that is magic. Can any of you prove he can eat non-magical things? Natsu can because he's the DS of fire. Anything that's fire he seems to be capable of eating. Gajeel can eat anything that's metal, etc. Acno eating all magic =/= eating anything.

All I asked for was a small bit of proof to back up one of the main points the FT side uses to argue, and all I've gotten is "he eats all magic". If it was on his profile I wouldn't need to ask for this, but nowhere could I find evidence of what you're claiming.
 
@Celestial There aren't enough scans of BB fighting at all to prove consistently how he would fight, that's why most of my reasoning is based on his fight with Ace, where his main strategy was to attract Ace towards him and grab him to null his DF powers. For the rest, it's quite simple. He has two main powers, darkness and quakes. I've explained the main uses of both previously and why I think he'd use them in certain ways. If you want anything more, I can't provide it since he's had two fights that I'm aware of, and one consisted entirely of him getting hit and stealing a DF power once his opponent had already died.

Also, please at least try to prove Acno can eat anything. I've said so many times by now why the logic you were using doesn't hold up, so any evidence would be nice. The fact that you're willing to use it as a major part of your argument with absolutely nothing to back it up is frankly somewhat absurd. Though my vote doesn't change since I planned for the possibility and Acno still has enough chance to win that I personally can't vote for Blackbeard. So yeah, I'm sticking with inconclusive regardless.

Edit: I won't be able to post for a little while so I can't continue debating. If I notice anything substantial when I come back I'll reply, otherwise I'll be waiting for someone to bring up a good point.
 
^acno didn't have any specific element and he consumes all elemental magic, like a slayer, and all slayer can eat their element even if it non-magical. Like Natsu have lighting and fire, now he can eat both lighting and fire magic+ normal fire and lighting, same logic goes for acnologia

(Yeah I am bad at giving points/explaining stuffy)

  • that's a casual feat from acnologia, but strong enough to make august sweat
20181011 113753 rmedited
  • not even Irene scale to him, she already said she was scared to acnologia
    20181011 113844 rmedited
  • He can keep blasting the ground where bb is standing,use telekinesis or just create explosion on his face, also don't forget about his soul rip
    20181011 113944 rmedited
 
If he has no specific element, that still doesn't translate to the ability to eat anything that magic can produce. If he's stated to be the DS of magic and he's only shown eating magic it's standard to assume he can only eat magic. Acting as though that isn't true is to blatantly go against the standards applied on the wiki. Consistency and accuracy are the main goal here, so assuming he can do something he's never shown or even implied to be capable of isn't in line with those goals.

TK alone isn't enough to overpower BB, but it's a definite point in his favour. Were he privy to BBs weakness to water I'd argue that could secure him the win, but he isn't so at best it's a supporting ability here that prevents BB from gaining the edge.

Referring to other characters who he's superior to or are afraid of him doesn't really help here since we're debating with the profile stats in mind.

His profile says the soul ripping is applied through DS magic and implies it's only usable on dragons. Again, if he's never stated or shown to have that capability, we cannot assume he has it. If his soul manipulation is only ever shown affecting dragons and is applied through a technique designed to fight dragons, I see no reason to assume it would work on a normal human the same way.
 
My arguement is absurd yet you're using a fight that happened Pre-Timeskip, Didn't have killing intent, or the other current devil fruit.

Sureeeee
 
Dragonslayers can eat the element they master, which for Acno has been stated several times to be magic. Is there any proof in the story of him eating anything non-magical?

As for your second comment, I won't refute that. We don't have much to go off of regarding Blackbeard's fighting style, which is why I explained to you how he fought before and how he'd likely fight in this scenario. If you want to know how he acted after stealing Whitebeard's DF, he used it in much the same way Whitebeard had. As for how the DF is used in general, it's got a couple AoE moves that can hit a lot of people and the ability to essentially buff melee attacks so the user can fight effectively at any range. Him lacking killing intent in the fight hardly matters, as he'd have no reason to change strategies when(as far as he knows) touching his opponent will negate their powers.

Even taking into account that we lack information on Blackbeard, your reasoning is still faulty. Using Acno eating anything Blackbeard can throw at him as an argument with what appears to be no reason or evidence to suggest he can. If Acno is shown eating anything non-magical then that can be used as evidence. If he isn't, why do you assume he can? Other Dragonslayers can because they're the masters of elements that occur naturally and that other people also use. Natsu can eat fire, Acno can eat magic. Prove otherwise or I have no reason to believe otherwise. I'm also quite aware that a DS can eat magic or elements they haven't been trained to, but it's also been shown to have negative effects on their body and it was portrayed as an insane course of action. If Acno has never done that in-character either, there's no reason to assume he will.

Part of my reason for going with inconclusive is because I can't guarantee to you that BB will act in a way to secure victory, because we haven't seen much of him as of right now. If you want to continue being snarky that's fine, but if you're going to be a child I will simply leave. I've learned that debating with people who act that way is a waste of time, and I really can't afford to do that right now.

Do you have anything else to say? I'm pretty close to unfollowing anyway, since it seems nobody else has bothered to come back.
 
C1D9D532-4572-487A-B0E6-32336C3BF152
If he can eat any element he should be able to eat the organic counterpart. The only reason their isn't proof is because he casually shit on everyone he fought until Fairy Sphere.
 
And child? Really? Your logic makes no sense lmao. It's straight headcannon as the manga/anime didn't even depict on how B.B. uses the new devil fruit yet you're assuming shit.

Isn't their a saying when you assume something you only make an ass out of yourself?
 
I'm trying to stay somewhat polite and civil, but I'm beginning to see this is a waste of my time. Where is it stated or shown Acnologia can eat natural elements the same way all other DS can, for things he isn't naturally the DS of? Where is he shown eating natural fire, lightning, metal, or anything aside from magic? If the answer is nowhere, why do you assume he can when his magic type is different from all other Dragonslayers? He is the DS of magic itself, and has only ever eaten magic. Funny you critique me for what you say is headcanon then admit there's no proof of something every FT fan in this thread has used as a rock-solid argument for him winning. That screenshot does help a bit since it implies his element isn't naturally magic alone, but was something else and he essentially adapted through means similar to Natsu gaining lightning abilities until he was capable of eating any magic. Though that brings up another question, was Natsu ever able to eat natural lightning? If he has in canon then I'm willing to admit Acnologia can likely eat Blackbeard's shadows since there's a very direct and similar parallel in the FT verse. Otherwise, it's seems unlikely it would be accepted that Acnologia can eat any element that occurs naturally since the only link to him being able to do that, being Natsu's lightning mode, wouldn't have proven that gaining another facet of DS magic makes you the equivalent of a DS of that element. If that's confusing at all I'll try to explain it better.

And no, it isn't just headcanon it's a logical extrapolation based on severla factors.

1. How Whitebeard used the DF. He used it to attack large groups from range and smaller groups in CqC. This is the flimsiest piece of the reasoning and wouldn't be arguable by itself.

2. How Blackbeard is shown using it. In only one fight, he's shown to use the DF in exactly the same way Whitebeard did. He worked in Whitebeard's fleet and should know how his boss fights and is likely trying to emulate that, with his own touches. We won't know for sure how he fights with both until we see him more, which is again why I voted inconclusive. At this point I'm sure you haven't bothered to read through all my posts.

3. How the abilities of the DF function. I shall explain them briefly below.

A. He can grab and pull the air relative to himself, effectively flipping the area around him and affecting any enemies within his range.

B. He can form what appear to be bubbles around his hands and feet, increasing his striking power with the abilities of the DF.

C. He can hit and crack the air, resulting in shockwaves that travel through virtually any medium including the ground and air.

Of the three, only one is intended for melee combat. The other two are obviously intended to be used at range. It doesn't take a genius to know what someone with a ranged attack will do when starting a fight at range. I'm being completely serious here, have you read through all of my posts? I mention all this and more in my explanation of why I feel inconclusive is the safest bet here. Why are you so aggressive? I see no reason for you to be and I find it doubtful this is what you imagine debating to be.
 
That's why I posted the basic abilities of a dragon slayer. They all can do it. ITS THE MOST BASIC OF ABILITIES. THIS IS FIRST SEASON INFORMATION.
 
I am aware. And this has confirmed my suspicion that you weren't bothering to read my entire post before replying, or you're misunderstanding my points. Try reading the rest carefully then respond. I address what you just said in the same paragraph.
 
Yes because you were wrong about it.

Everything else a just an assumption from a Pre-Time Skip fight which is irrelevant as hell to this battle. So I purposely ignored it.

And I'm not assuming anything. It's what Natural Dragon Slayers can do. Eat the element they master. I posted screen shots.

That's all I have to say about that. I don't like repeating myself this many times.
 
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