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Can there be some scans for the scaling? I dont understand where half of these boosts are from. Actually give me a sec going to put down my thoughts on some parts.
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Black Clover: New Scaling CRT
- Thread starter CloverDragon03
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"Despite having this amp, the Third Eye members at full power are always noted to be the strongest in the Eye of the Midnight Sun. So, this is what I propose."
A scan of this would be nice.
"The 8.48 teraton characters would become 45.6 gigatons (Island level) because of a base Yuno (who at the time is comparable to a base Asta that can hurt Evil Eye Raia, thus being 6-C) assimilating all of the Wind Spirit's power into him, who is at least comparable to his base form. So, this Spirit Dive Yuno and those who scale to him would be Island level."
I dont see why we can assume that the wind spirit is equal to him especially when she was in a weaker form at the time. He should simply be higher with the form, not a 1 + 1 boost that is not stated anywhere. Unless of course you have a scan for this.
"Sealed Licht. He's at least 6-B now for casually stopping a combined attack from Asta and Yuno, both of whom were 8.48 teratons at the time (now 45.6 gigatons). Same logic applies here, but different numbers. Sealed Licht would now be "At least 6-C" (At least 91.2 gigatons) for the same thing."
I believe this was covered in a CRT already so I guess nothing to say here, just wanted to point it out cause it still has 6-B there.
"Black Divider: High 6-C+ (851.1 gigatons; Above Conquering Eon, which would have this much added power [169.7 * 3 + 45.6 * 7 + 22.8]; on this note, Patry needs a "Post Dark-Elf Transformation" that would scale to Two-horned Black Asta for destroying spells that could damage him)"
Uh how does Black Divider scale above this again?
A scan of this would be nice.
"The 8.48 teraton characters would become 45.6 gigatons (Island level) because of a base Yuno (who at the time is comparable to a base Asta that can hurt Evil Eye Raia, thus being 6-C) assimilating all of the Wind Spirit's power into him, who is at least comparable to his base form. So, this Spirit Dive Yuno and those who scale to him would be Island level."
I dont see why we can assume that the wind spirit is equal to him especially when she was in a weaker form at the time. He should simply be higher with the form, not a 1 + 1 boost that is not stated anywhere. Unless of course you have a scan for this.
"Sealed Licht. He's at least 6-B now for casually stopping a combined attack from Asta and Yuno, both of whom were 8.48 teratons at the time (now 45.6 gigatons). Same logic applies here, but different numbers. Sealed Licht would now be "At least 6-C" (At least 91.2 gigatons) for the same thing."
I believe this was covered in a CRT already so I guess nothing to say here, just wanted to point it out cause it still has 6-B there.
"Black Divider: High 6-C+ (851.1 gigatons; Above Conquering Eon, which would have this much added power [169.7 * 3 + 45.6 * 7 + 22.8]; on this note, Patry needs a "Post Dark-Elf Transformation" that would scale to Two-horned Black Asta for destroying spells that could damage him)"
Uh how does Black Divider scale above this again?
Kazuma_kuwabara
She/Her- 4,435
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Conquering Eon fail to destroy Zagred´s heart, Black dividir slice it like butter
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That was due to conquering eon having low anti-magic properties. Not AP.
Kazuma_kuwabara
She/Her- 4,435
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The verse treats Black Divider as an AP amp, I understand your point of view but I am just saying what everyone accepts right now
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its not what everyone accepts else it would not be in this CRT. Black divider is an AP amp obviously, however it is not stronger than conquering Eon. I see no reason why it should be. Asta was capable of destroying the heart due to anti-magic. He said so himself that conquering eon did not have enough anti-magic properties. Or are we forgetting the entire point behind anti magic and dark magic? As opposed to the other magics not working against zagred's spells.
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then he should get just get Higher with BD.
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- Thread starter
- #168
Unless we can prove Zagred’s heart is made of magic, we can’t assume it was due to Anti-Magic that Zagred’s heart was sliced when Conquering Eon couldn’t scratch it, as that would be the only way Black Divider slicing Zagred’s heart would be the result of Anti-Magic.
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The debate is whether or not Zagred's Heart actually tanked the Conquering Eon and scales to it in Durability
Anti-Magic isn't a factor here, so discuss whether or not the heart scales to the Conquering Eon
Anti-Magic isn't a factor here, so discuss whether or not the heart scales to the Conquering Eon
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- #170
Wouldn’t be useful with the calcs we have at the moment.
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always good to have backup calcs
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trust me.
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- #173
No, the argument that was made is if Black Divider slicing it was because of AP, in which case: yes, it was.
Both Conquering Eon and Black Divider have the power of the underworld, making them both equally capable of killing Zagred. However, Zagred’s heart withstood Conquering Eon, but not Black Divider. That alone is a showcase that Black Divider > Conquering Eon.
I think this fell under 38.9 megatons via the mountain and island feats page (since it was said Jack shaved away a mountain, which seems to indicate pulverization).
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Well no, Anti-Magic isn't a factor because the story makes it clear that Anti-Magic doesn't neg durability
The reason Conquering Eon couldn't kill Zagred is because he can regenerate from the damage, while he can't regenerate from Anti-Magic
So there's no doubt about the fact that Anti-Magic uses AP, the debate is whether the heart scales to the Conquering Eon
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So, this is what I’m getting right now.
Zagred’s heart gets hit with a combined attack, Conquering Eon, which with the proposed scaling, would be 851 gigatons. Zagred regenerates. Asta hits him with Black Divider, a very big amp, and he dies, because Anti Magic stops regeneration. Anti Magic potency also seems to scale from his AP, so the stronger he is the more effective it is, so he can use it on stronger opponents.
Given all that, I don’t see why Black Divider would necessarily be stronger than Conquering Eon unless someone noted it to be stronger.
Zagred’s heart gets hit with a combined attack, Conquering Eon, which with the proposed scaling, would be 851 gigatons. Zagred regenerates. Asta hits him with Black Divider, a very big amp, and he dies, because Anti Magic stops regeneration. Anti Magic potency also seems to scale from his AP, so the stronger he is the more effective it is, so he can use it on stronger opponents.
Given all that, I don’t see why Black Divider would necessarily be stronger than Conquering Eon unless someone noted it to be stronger.
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I cant agree with this. Conquering eon is an attack that obliterated Zagred's body entirely. It wasnt capable of reaching the heart yes. While with Black Divider Asta was able to go straight for the heart. Zagred is able to move his heart around however. I dont see how you can compare the 2 just because the heart was still around after Zagred's body was destroyed.
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- #177
The attack completely encompassed Zagred and a wide area around him, so unless Zagred can move his heart out of his body - which we can’t assume to be true since it was never shown - the attack definitely reached his heart.
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zagred literally was capable of being alive without a body. I dont see why he can not move his heart outside of it. And there is no implication that his heart tanked the attack or that it is particularly tougher than his body. The main issue always had been that he could regenerate which anti-magic stopped.
Edit: In fact I would say that is is more likely that his body took most of the attack and disintegrated leaving on his heart around. Which makes ssense as he seemingly has no other organs but his heart.
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- #180
This image is actually perfect. We see the area of Conquering Eon's effect, and in the same page, we see that Zagred's heart is right in the area of effect, as shown by the fact that what's behind him is the black from the destroyed terrain.
Simply put: This proves that Zagred's heart was caught in the attack.
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That makes sense to me, it was directly in the middle of the attack and wasn't damaged at all
So the heart's durability would scale to the Conquering Eon, meaning Black Divider would also scale above the Conquering Eon
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- #182
Basically, yeah. If this is okay, I'll go ahead and start addressing Rocker's other concerns. Of course, if there are still concerns about Black Divider, I'll address those too.
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I still think it is a big assumption that his heart is massively more durable than his body when anti-magic amounts and his regeneration was the main reasons that he did not die. Black divider in itself scaling above all of that energy seems extremely unlikely. It makes far more sense to me that it simply survived due to his body taking the brunt of the attack. Seems my edit was not seen.
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This is kinda an argument from incredulity, there's really nothing that says the Black Divider is weaker, in fact, the story is implying that Black Divider is pulling out the true power of the Demon Slayer the same way that Conquering Eon is pulling out the true power of the Demon Dweller
Both are limit breaking attacks
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- #185
Asta even thinks after Zagred regenerates that Conquering Eon is the true power of the Demon-Dweller sword and he needs to draw out his own sword's power, which is where Black Divider comes in.
Also notable is the fact that when Asta stabs Zagred (but Zagred moves his heart out of the way), Zagred is furious about getting hit and he looks like he took heavy damage from it.
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The true power of demon dweller is to absorb energy. The energy used for conquering eon comes from a whole bunch of others which has nothing to do with its AP. Conversely Demon dweller's is its amount of anti magic. I am not sure why this would mean that BD scales to them of course without the whole heart possibly ranking thing. And I am not arguing from incredulity. I just don't see any true indication that the heart could tank the attack over regeneration which was the main cause of concern.
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Well the heart didn't even have a scratch and was in the center of the attack, and teh regeneration happened after the attack, not during
So yes, the heart scales to the Conquerinng Eon
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- #188
The heart had to be able to withstand the attack or avoid it in order to regenerate to begin with, and we know that it was the former because we see from the scan I showed that the heart was caught up in the blast.
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His point was it had the power to absorb the magic of others while BD's was it anti magic. They had enough magic to kill zagred but not nearly enough anti magic to stop him for good.
Zagred took even more damage from conquering eon. Of course he took heavy damage.
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- #190
Not necessarily. One's an AOE vaporization, the other's a stab.
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The Black Divider used on the heart was way bigger than the Black Divider used against Zagred himself
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People's organs can survive attacks that they wont actually take when in the way of said attacks without the body. The body likely mitigated most of the damage.
What I said above.
BD was used twice. Both times it cut him. The second time it happened to hit his heart.
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- #193
The blast was still going even as Zagred's body was disappearing though, meaning at least at some point, the heart took the full attack.
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The attack would be getting weaker as the blast goes on. And his body around the heart was still intact as the blast continued until its end. I can see a possibly but I am honestly unsure that BD should scale to Conquering Eon.
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Actually screw it, maybe I am being a bit difficult. How about my other concerns. Would rather focus on those.
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- #196
I'll focus on the Spirit Dive one first, since the Evil Eye one needs some more digging. This one's pretty simple. Every time we see Yuno use Bell's power, it's always at least comparable to his own, if not stronger. In fact, it's often stronger, as it's been able to one-shot characters that gave him trouble.
In addition, him using Spirit Magic can't just be a sum of him and Bell's power, as that defeats the entire purpose of Spirit Dive (that being, assimilating all of Bell's power into himself). Spirit Dive is Yuno's power + Bell's power, and since Bell is at least comparable to Yuno, this turns it into a 1 + 1 situation, "effectively" a 2x multiplier.
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I guess that makes sense.
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- #198
Alright. Also, is the Licht thing good with you? I couldn't really tell.
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Yeah it was fine I only noted it because it still had the 6-B rating on it.
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- #200
Yeah, assuming everything else is fine, he'll be "At least 6-C" (At least 91.2 gigatons)
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