Black Clover: New Scaling CRT

[CloverDragon03]

I don't agree with the idea that the mountain is the entire kingdom, but I can understand what you're saying for the noble and common realms.

Maybe we can use the several hundred kilometers statement but from a different spot? I never liked the assumption that it was where Hage is, because we would've seen the giant skull if it was there. My opinion is to say it's about where the Forsaken Realm begins. They're still very much within the Clover Kingdom's borders.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I am not here to argue the mountain size or whatever however the claim that the mountain is only the noble realm is not exactly correct:
Here we see Kikka on the map. Keep in mind it even says how Kikka is in the upper center, this is further proof that it is on the mountain itself.

And here we see the image of the the castle from Kikka, its not very far from the noble realm. So the common realm is likely on the mountain itself.

Further evidence of this is when the light swords cover the mountain.

Its basically confirmed by Julius that the entire kingdom is the mountain.

This should be taken into account when calcing stuff from the mountain to the map. I believe that at the very least the common and noble realms are both on the mountain.

Use that shot of Kikka village to angsize to the center of the castle, then use that distance on the map

 

[CloverDragon03]

Use that shot of Kikka village to angsize to the center of the castle, then use that distance on the map

Not sure about this, because like I said before, we have a statement of several hundred kilometers away from the castle, and that statement is made with them still being in the Clover Kingdom's borders.

 

[CloverDragon03]

If they were in another kingdom, they would've made note of that (especially when they have someone who can make a model of their given area). In addition, they're not really at the border so they have to be some ways within it. If they were that close to the border, we would've seen the giant skull, as it's close to the border

 

[Rocker1189]

I don't agree with the idea that the mountain is the entire kingdom, but I can understand what you're saying for the noble and common realms.

Keep in mind that the contour lines also exist on the Forsaken realm as well and we know that it is meant to show places of higher elevation, it stands to reason that it is on the mountain just on the lowest parts.

Maybe we can use the several hundred kilometers statement but from a different spot? I never liked the assumption that it was where Hage is, because we would've seen the giant skull if it was there. My opinion is to say it's about where the Forsaken Realm begins. They're still very much within the Clover Kingdom's borders.

I dont think I can agree with that for a few reasons, iirc we see absolutely nothing of the kingdom, they could have been teleported literally anywhere. We get shots from Hage and can see where it is on the map. Using a statement like that is a massive assumption.

 

[Rocker1189]

If they were in another kingdom, they would've made note of that (especially when they have someone who can make a model of their given area). In addition, they're not really at the border so they have to be some ways within it. If they were that close to the border, we would've seen the giant skull, as it's close to the border

They dont know where they are in the first place, only the direction of the castle. The skull is in a specific spot, they could be anywhere outside the kingdom without seeing it.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

And there is the neutral territory

No reason to be on the border of the country

 

[Rocker1189]

And there is the neutral territory

No reason to be on the border of the country

Nice this answers that then, they literally could be anywhere there.

 

[CloverDragon03]

No, that still doesn't answer it. The neutral territory is a strong magic region, and it's a snowy mountain. If they were there, it would've been obvious.

 

[Rocker1189]

No, that still doesn't answer it. The neutral territory is a strong magic region, and it's a snowy mountain. If they were there, it would've been obvious.

As said the witches territory is there which has no snow. It is a wide area where a lot of different regions can exist.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Wasn't the witches' territory in the neutral territory? I don't remember snow

Yep, Im right
https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/15291/10-082.0/compressed/s006.jpg

 

[CloverDragon03]

Update: Mitch and I have talked out some stuff and he's gonna calc the Clover Kingdom size in a way that should work better.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay. Now say what the method is

The calc will be linked once it's done.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Here's the new calc

 

[Rocker1189]

I think it is definitely the best version of the calc for the moment. Until we are given a size for the clover kingdom. Or any better statements.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Agreed. Unless we get any further statements, this is likely our best bet.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Agreed. Unless we get any further statements, this is likely our best bet.

So how does the scaling look like?

 

[CloverDragon03]

So how does the scaling look like?

Depends on the other calc that was being discussed.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Depends on the other calc that was being discussed.

May I see?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ok, Clover Kingdom Destruction is High 6-C, and that's settled

Now onto Vengeance's Calc

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think what I've done makes the most sense, with all the info we have about the spell (footage being the main thing).

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Here's the new calc

much better.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I have a little problem
The castle is not in the center of the country

The result remains the same level, but eh

It’s roughly in that area. It’s kinda hard to get a specific spot when we’re not using the detailed Clover Kingdom map. Same general area though, so I think it’s fine.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Well, it's a little irrelevant, so let's just discuss about storms now

 

[CloverDragon03]

My calc for the feat got accepted three hours ago (I just found out now as I was scrolling through).

 

[CloverDragon03]

Eh I disagree with your calculation. But I'll explain why later. It's already past midnight (At least in my country)

The math is fine, that's obvious. My problem is using the anime

In my opinion, it's fine to use as supplementary material as long as it's not contradicted by anything, especially in this case where part of the reference is already deemed canon.

Anyways, we can discuss more when you wake up.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also, I've edited the OP to account for both calcs.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think enough time has passed so... Bump

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I had a surprise test today and some other issues. I should have explained my point in the morning which was before the test was revealed, but I preferred to made some calculations for Jujutsu Kaisen. So eh

Anyway, the anime is completely different from the manga in this scene, and therefore cannot be used.
Anime version:

The clouds/mass are brings to the center, and from the center a tree is born
But in the manga it is another story, it is literally the other way around. The clouds expand omnidirectionally where the tree is born:

Yeah no, anime cannot be used in this case.

And one problem I realized: Why a 20 kilometer radius? I really thought the math was fine, but then I thought better of it. According to the storms page:

• The clear day viewing distance is the radius the clouds cover (20km).

The 20 kilometers is via the horizon. But it is not possible to see the horizon in the feat

 

[CloverDragon03]

We know the spell goes out to the horizon because we've seen that happen before, and it's the exact same spell so it makes sense for that to be the case.

I had a surprise test today and some other issues. I should have explained my point in the morning which was before the test was revealed, but I preferred to made some calculations for Jujutsu Kaisen. So eh

Anyway, the anime is completely different from the manga in this scene, and therefore cannot be used.
Anime version:

The clouds/mass are brings to the center, and from the center a tree is born
But in the manga it is another story, it is literally the other way around. The clouds expand omnidirectionally where the tree is born:

Yeah no, anime cannot be used in this case.

This is just wrong. The thing here is that the manga focuses on showing the tree coming out of the center of the clouds. In no way is it suggested that the clouds are expanding omnidirectionally.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

We know the spell goes out to the horizon because we've seen that happen before, and it's the exact same spell so it makes sense for that to be the case.

One is in a moment of battle agains Capitans the other is for... Create brooms for random dudes. They are completely different moments and situations

And also, why even is the episode canonical?

The thing here is that the manga focuses on showing the tree coming out of the center of the clouds. In no way is it suggested that the clouds are expanding omnidirectionally.

The manga focused on the clouds. Even how the clouds move is different, in the manga the clouds are in constant movement like a wave, but in the anime they are just normal clouds. Its the basic interpretation accepted for years. Also, in the manga the clouds don't seem to expand

Part of the sky is white, it doesn't really look like the clouds covered the whole sky like a full storm

 

[CloverDragon03]

One is in a moment of battle agains Capitans the other is for... Create brooms for random dudes. They are completely different moments and situations

And also, why even is the episode canonical?

To begin, this doesn't even matter since the tree's doing the attacking, not the clouds. Second, it doesn't change the fact that it's the same spell and it's jumping the gun to assume the same spell is going to function differently in two uses of it.

By the way, all the episodes between these arcs (so 130-157) are deemed canon by Tabata, so we can use this.

The manga focused on the clouds. Even how the clouds move is different, in the manga the clouds are in constant movement like a wave, but in the anime they are just normal clouds. Its the basic interpretation accepted for years. Also, in the manga the clouds don't seem to expand

Part of the sky is white, it doesn't really look like the clouds covered the whole sky like a full storm

First off, the exact same thing happened in the anime. The clouds were in constant motion as the tree came out. Second, they're not really expanding in either the manga or the anime so I don't get this point. Third, that white sky thing has to do with the angle that the clouds are being viewed from. This is especially true given that to the left and right, this problem doesn't exist.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Bump

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

To begin, this doesn't even matter since the tree's doing the attacking, not the clouds. Second, it doesn't change the fact that it's the same spell and it's jumping the gun to assume the same spell is going to function differently in two uses of it.

There are different proportions for each moment. Yuno has an attack that creates a big blast of wind, but with the same magic he can just play with Asta. Its the same case here.

By the way, all the episodes between these arcs (so 130-157) are deemed canon by Tabata, so we can use this.

I know this is probably true because I have heard some people saying this, but it is better to have the link to this to explain it on the verse page

First off, the exact same thing happened in the anime. The clouds were in constant motion as the tree came out.

In the anime the clouds are not in circular motion in the shape of a wave. And as I said, the clouds come out explicitly in the center, where the tree is born. This is obvious. Or will you say that this movement looks like this one?

Second, they're not really expanding in either the manga or the anime so I don't get this point.

The point is that in the manga the clouds expand

Literally what we accepted before this thread, don't pretend that this possibility never existed

Third, that white sky thing has to do with the angle that the clouds are being viewed from. This is especially true given that to the left and right, this problem doesn't exist.

Left and right don't have this problem because this is the visible diameter, where you can see how far it goes, the white part is where nothing exists, showing that it is not really a storm. Tabata knows how to drawing a storms, if he really made a storm on this scene all the sky would be black with clouds

 

[CloverDragon03]

There are different proportions for each moment. Yuno has an attack that creates a big blast of wind, but with the same magic he can just play with Asta. Its the same case here.

The different proportions have to do with the magnitude of the spell itself. The spell itself for Magic Tree Descent is the tree itself, in which case, yeah it can have different proportions. We cannot assume that the cloud-gathering part is also affected because we have nothing to suggest as such.

In the anime the clouds are not in circular motion in the shape of a wave. And as I said, the clouds come out explicitly in the center, where the tree is born. This is obvious. Or will you say that this movement looks like this one?

The point is that in the manga the clouds expand

Literally what we accepted before this thread, don't pretend that this possibility never existed

This is just repeating something you said before without any further elaboration. I've already explained why this isn't the case, that being that the manga panel mainly showed the tree coming out rather than the cloud movement, which is why the anime works as supplementary material to determine how the clouds appeared, that being through gathering them.

Left and right don't have this problem because this is the visible diameter, where you can see how far it goes, the white part is where nothing exists, showing that it is not really a storm. Tabata knows how to drawing a storms, if he really made a storm on this scene all the sky would be black with clouds

This isn't addressing what I'm saying, that being that the angle of this shot is why that white part exists, further proven by the fact that it doesn't exist in the anime. Again, supplementary material working to fill in gaps left by the manga.

Also, you're comparing a snowstorm to a storm cloud for some reason, even though those are two completely different entities.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Alright, lets go.

The different proportions have to do with the magnitude of the spell itself. The spell itself for Magic Tree Descent is the tree itself, in which case, yeah it can have different proportions. We cannot assume that the cloud-gathering part is also affected because we have nothing to suggest as such.

The clouds are part of the William's magic, at the time of the first appearance the clouds have a lot of prominence on the scan, so I don't see why you are saying that the clouds are irrelevant. You know, the clouds are what give us something relevant in this feat, if it wasn't for the clouds the feat would be less than 8-B or even 8-C. In this case, we have no evidence that the clouds are irrelevant, and not the other way around

This is just repeating something you said before without any further elaboration.

But you do it

I've already explained why this isn't the case, that being that the manga panel mainly showed the tree coming out rather than the cloud movement, which is why the anime works as supplementary material to determine how the clouds appeared, that being through gathering them.

First it shows a black concentration in the scene:

Then it is shown that this black quantity expands:

Damn, that's basic interpretation. There is nothing to argue, I will only need to repeat the same thing, only more and more obvious

This isn't addressing what I'm saying, that being that the angle of this shot is why that white part exists, further proven by the fact that it doesn't exist in the anime.

But... The angle doesn't interfere with anything, by the same logic the diameter wouldn't be visible. In BC the storms cover the whole sky, or at least the sky gets completely darkened. in William case the sky is perfect and clear

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

oof this is a huge downgrade goddammit!!!

 

[CloverDragon03]

Alright, lets go.

The clouds are part of the William's magic, at the time of the first appearance the clouds have a lot of prominence on the scan, so I don't see why you are saying that the clouds are irrelevant. You know, the clouds are what give us something relevant in this feat, if it wasn't for the clouds the feat would be less than 8-B or even 8-C. In this case, we have no evidence that the clouds are irrelevant, and not the other way around

I'm saying that the spell is most prominently the tree itself, so naturally, the tree would be what's bigger or smaller depending on the use. I've made my case, and you still need to prove yours.

But you do it

Even if I did, it'd be irrelevant to your argument, and I do in fact elaborate on what I say.

First it shows a black concentration in the scene:

Then it is shown that this black quantity expands:

Damn, that's basic interpretation. There is nothing to argue, I will only need to repeat the same thing, only more and more obvious

Funny how this interpretation basically proves my point, because it's actually the other way around. There's a black concentration that everything gathers around. Not only that, the lines in the image are ambiguous in terms of direction, which is what makes the anime more useful as a supplement.

If you want to repeat the same thing over and over ad nauseum despite my rebuttals, feel free, but that does run the risk of your argument getting ignored since you're bringing nothing new to the table.

But... The angle doesn't interfere with anything, by the same logic the diameter wouldn't be visible. In BC the storms cover the whole sky, or at least the sky gets completely darkened. in William case the sky is perfect and clear

And these two scans prove my point, as the cloud lines are no longer present after they go off a certain distance, just like in William's feat. Once again, the angle plays a role, and it shows.

 

[Loyd]

I daresay this is one of the most interesting convos ive read in awhile on vsbattle.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

bloody nerds and their chinese cartoon storm lines