Black Clover: Lifting Strength Scaling CRT Part 2

[CloverDragon03]

Welp, here's another Black Clover CRT about lifting strength, this one being the result of a newly accepted calc for Vanessa. I'm here to discuss who this would scale to, and honestly, it's pretty simple.

On the Black Clover Wiki, most characters have officially stated guidebook statistics compiled onto their profiles, as the guidebooks themselves aren't easily accessible. Vanessa's statistics show that her physical strength is a 2/5, so the natural course of action would be to scale anyone that is a 2/5 or higher to her feat (unless they already have a rating).

The thing is... That's quite literally almost everyone that has a profile on VS Battles Wiki, the only exception being those that lack guidebook statements. There's no issue with this, in fact it means that most will have concrete Lifting Strength values.

Anyways, I'd like to hear you guys' thoughts on this. It seems like a valid thing to use.

 

[Nierre]

I see no issues in using this to scale other characters with 2/5 or higher.

 

[Theendzero13]

I agree

 

[joshpiece]

I see no issues in using this to scale other characters with 2/5 or higher.

I share the same sentiment.

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

Looks good to me.

 

[SuperStar]

I agree

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bumperino

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Simple as hell, so yeah, I agree with this

 

[Damage3245]

On the Black Clover Wiki, most characters have officially stated guidebook statistics compiled onto their profiles, as the guidebooks themselves aren't easily accessible. Vanessa's statistics show that her physical strength is a 2/5, so the natural course of action would be to scale anyone that is a 2/5 or higher to her feat (unless they already have a rating).

Is there anything backing up those numbers as being valid for everyone?

At what point were those numbers released? Do we know if those are still valid for when she performed the feat?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Is there anything backing up those numbers as being valid for everyone?

At what point were those numbers released? Do we know if those are still valid for when she performed the feat?

I haven't checked when they were released, but it's irrelevant as Vanessa's physical strength is the exact same throughout the series. She never gets physically stronger, only training her magic power (and there doesn't seem to be a connection between magic power and lifting strength, so a boost in magic power wouldn't mean a boost in lifting strength)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Vanessa is pretty weak in general, there is no reason not to scale at least for most physical fighters

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bump because I would like for this thread to not die

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems pretty straitforward.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bumping this again, but I think we have enough agreements to warrant this being accepted

 

[Epsilon_R]

Bump

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think since this is a lifting strength CRT, we should also address the recent chapters. There are some characters that can move under Lucifero's gravity without any assistance:

Devil Union Asta (though he's already Class T), Post-Second Grimoire Spirit Dive Yuno, Equus Mode Nacht, and Hellfire Incarnate Mereoleona. They should all be Class T, along with Devil's Bargain Zenon for physically clashing with Yuno.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Base Asta should downscale from Devil Union as he was able to withstand Half-Manifested Lucifero's Gravity

 

[CloverDragon03]

Eh, I think it should be a possibly. He was mainly holding onto his sword to stay up

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Base Asta being just a little weaker than his Union form is quite ridiculous. Devil Union is considered something massively superior

 

[CloverDragon03]

At the very most, I'd give him "At least Class K, possibly Class T"

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

At the very most, I'd give him "At least Class K, possibly Class T"

Simply no, Devil Union has difficulty standing up against Lucifero's gravity, and now we are considering the possibility that Base Asta nearly dead is comparable to Union LS? Come on, this is pure plot armor. Even Asta at his best could not move against Lucifero's Gravity

 

[CloverDragon03]

Simply no, Devil Union has difficulty standing up against Lucifero's gravity, and now we are considering the possibility that Base Asta nearly dead is comparable to Union LS? Come on, this is pure plot armor. Even Asta at his best could not move against Lucifero's Gravity

In that scan, DU Asta was not struggling to move because of Lucifero's gravity. He was struggling because he'd just been heavily damaged by Lucifero's punch.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Yes, and gravity helps keep Devil Union down. Scan itself is mentioning about Lucifero's presence and then clearly shows the effect of gravity on Asta

It's not all a consciousness

 

[Worthless]

Simply no, Devil Union has difficulty standing up against Lucifero's gravity, and now we are considering the possibility that Base Asta nearly dead is comparable to Union LS? Come on, this is pure plot armor. Even Asta at his best could not move against Lucifero's Gravity

LOL

 

[Worthless]

Base Asta should downscale from Devil Union as he was able to withstand Half-Manifested Lucifero's Gravity

At the very most, I'd give him "At least Class K, possibly Class T"

I agree with possibly as well btw since he can withstand it in base form for a moment.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

LOL

 

[Worthless]

he is seriously questioning it LMAO i recommend you reading that whole chapter without skipping shit and come back here again

 

[Theendzero13]

he is seriously questioning it LMAO i recommend you reading that whole chapter without skipping shit and come back here again

Calm down, just explains what is wrong instead of telling people to read without skipping shit

 

[Worthless]

I have no reason to repeat what that DragonGamer said

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

By the way, if we are assuming that Base Asta is class T this creates inconsistencies in the narrative, because we would be assuming that he is physically stronger than captains at their peaks

Asta will also become stronger than Natch's strength union, since he needed the armor to stay close to Lucifero. Base Asta > Natch's Union is obviously wrong, based on this scene

Yami needed to nullify Lucifero's aura to lift (Another time)

Also, the Class T feat comes from something so massive that even Lilith/Naamah didn't expect it was possible to reflect his attack

So yeah, I will continue to disagree

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not saying Base Asta > Equus Mode Nacht, I have no idea where you got that from. Quite the opposite, since Asta would be downscaling. In addition, nothing goes against the idea of Asta's physical strength being above most of the captains. We know within the narrative itself that physical strength doesn't correlate with magic power.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm not saying Base Asta > Equus Mode Nacht, I have no idea where you got that from.

An almost dead Base Asta fighting against Lucifero's presence and keep up with Natch not being a PIS/Outlier basically is almost saying that Base Asta at his best is above

Quite the opposite, since Asta would be downscaling

The mere idea of him being comparable is already a problem

nothing goes against the idea of Asta's physical strength being above most of the captains.

You know, magic can be applied fiscally. So that would be like saying that Asta at the base has a strength that surpasses the magic power of any captain

You would also be saying that a basic Natch spell is above the captains

 

[Epsilon_R]

By the way, if we are assuming that Base Asta is class T this creates inconsistencies in the narrative, because we would be assuming that he is physically stronger than captains at their peaks

Pre-Timeskip Asta has always been above captains except Yami, I don't know why him standing up while the captains can't would create an inconsistency

Asta will also become stronger than Natch's strength union, since he needed the armor to stay close to Lucifero. Base Asta > Natch's Union is obviously wrong, based on this scene

You are taking a scene of Asta before his training btw.

Yami needed to nullify Lucifero's aura to lift (Another time)

Again, Asta had 3 days of training while Yami didn't

Also, the Class T feat comes from something so massive that even Lilith/Naamah didn't expect it was possible to reflect his attack

I don't see how that would invalidate Base Asta downscaling from Devil Union tbh, especially coming from Lilith who underestimates humans.

Lilith didn't even say it was impossible to reflect her attack, merely that Asta would be the only person to survive

 

[Epsilon_R]

An almost dead Base Asta fighting against Lucifero's presence and keep up with Natch not being a PIS/Outlier basically is almost saying that Base Asta at his best is above

We are talking about Lifting Strength here. Just because Asta is above Equus mode Nacht in Lifting Strength does not mean he's above him in AP

The mere idea of him being comparable is already a problem

While there's an obvious gap in Power, nothing suggest that said gap also applies for his LS.

You know, magic can be applied fiscally. So that would be like saying that Asta at the base has a strength that surpasses the magic power of any captain

And why is it surprising? Vetto, aka the third strongest character physically before the Timeskip needed reinforcement magic to outmatch Asta.

Also feats speak for themselves, Asta managed to hold on to the pressure, while all of the captains got crushed. They even acknowledge the fact they wouldn't stand a chance without Rill's invincibility spell.

Cherry on the cake, you even have Jack being pinned down by 50% Dante's Gravity

You would also be saying that a basic Natch spell is above the captains

Again, that's Asta before his training. At the time, even 50% Dante's Gravity would have killed him if Rouge didn't save him

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Pre-Timeskip Asta has always been above captains except Yami, I don't know why him standing up while the captains can't would create an inconsistency

Which is wrong. Captains can use their magic to increase physical strength, as is accepted in the profiles. Saying that Base Asta in his base has a higher LS than a captain is the same as saying that he exceeds everyone's magic strength even without anti magic; And yet Yami also needs to nullify Lucifero's gravity to at least be able to move against him. So yeah, that seems strange to me

You are taking a scene of Asta before his training btw.

Asta's training is not to increase his strength on a gigantic scale, but to learn how to use the Devil Union. To think of the possibility that Asta could increase his LS by more than ten million times merely by practicing a transformation is an absurd assumption, and you know it. This is above any accelerated development Asta has ever shown and is completely inconsistent with the character. Hell, even when Asta only trains the body he doesn't evolve that much, and when he trains a technique he evolves more LS than any of his strength training?

Again, Asta had 3 days of training while Yami didn't

And? Yami managed to stop a punch from Lucifero, it is not impossible to believe that he did his classic "Surpass your limits!"

I don't see how that would invalidate Base Asta downscaling from Devil Union tbh, especially coming from Lilith who underestimates humans.

If you believe that Base Asta is somewhat comparable to Lilith/Naamah's stronger attack which is massively above Natch in any of his forms then you simply need to improve your common sense

We are talking about Lifting Strength here. Just because Asta is above Equus mode Nacht in Lifting Strength does not mean he's above him in AP

Yes, I am talking about LS not AP. Where did you get AP from?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I hate when people add important things after they post the comment

Asta managed to hold on to the pressure, while all of the captains got crushed. They even acknowledge the fact they wouldn't stand a chance without Rill's invincibility spell.

The links don't work but I'm going to assume that the scenes are this and this

Well, it's simple: The captains were on the verge of death, Asta was not

Cherry on the cake, you even have Jack being pinned down by 50% Dante's Gravity

We don't even know how strong Jack was in this scene

 

[Worthless]

Dude denying what actually happened lmao "Which is wrong" stfu they are talking about LS and not an AP

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I never mentioned AP

 

[Nierre]

Dude denying what actually happened lmao "Which is wrong" stfu they are talking about LS and not an AP

Yes, I am talking about LS not AP. Where did you get AP from?

?????