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Hi, hello. It's been a while since I've done a Black Clover revisions, and that's due to a variety of factors. However, that's not important. What is important is the subject of this CRT, which is something I've been formulating for some time now.
As a number of you are probably aware, Black Clover's speed ratings are massive right now, reaching Massively FTL+ speeds, specifically up to hundreds of thousands of times the speed of light. Very impressive, for sure... Except, I don't believe it to be accurate at all. In short, this speed rating has nothing to support it beyond a usage of multipliers that isn't actually accurate to how they're shown in the series, in conjunction with the fact that their magnitude does not match the minimal evidence given for applying these multipliers to speed.
Note: Do NOT turn this into a discussion about Attack Potency. The AP buffs are far more supported within the story, and this discussion is strictly about speed.
Let's begin...
Why is Black Clover's speed so high?
So, let's begin with the million dollar question: What exactly got Black Clover's speed to such a high rating to begin with? Well, this seems to stem from three key factors:
Well, let's get into the problems with it.
Problems with Black Clover's Speed Scaling
As can be surmised from the title of this CRT, this method of speed scaling carries many, significant problems that result in this scaling being very inflated. I'll be going through these one by one.
1. Zora's Trap Magic
As Zora's Trap Magic is a key part of this scaling, I feel it's appropriate to tackle this first. The main point of argumentation is this:
"Zora's Counter Traps double magic, as said by Asta. Zora also never refutes this, despite knowing his own magic better than anyone. Therefore, doubling magic = doubling AP and speed"
I never understood this, because in the context of the scene, they're literally in the heat of the moment. Asta and Zora were arguing about whether they'd escape or help Mereoleona after she stayed behind to fight a group of elves. So basically, not exactly the time to be going the equivalent of "well ackshually
".
In addition, Mimosa specifically refers to its power and speed rather than the magic itself. That is to say, there was no reference to any change in the quantity of the magic, despite magic detection being Mimosa's specialty.
Overall, the evidence used to equate "doubling magic" to "doubling both attack power and speed" is very flimsy, which is in stark contrast to the massive multiplier stacking being done. And, as per the Multipliers page, this is pretty damning:
Going by our multipliers, the highest speed rating is 12000x higher than the calc it's scaling from. This is massively disproportionate to the solidity of the evidence in such a multiplier stack's favor.
With that addressed, the other point to note is the fact that characters get faster when they get magic boosts... One problem, though. There's a difference between "getting faster to an unknown degree" and "getting faster to the same degree that you get stronger." With Zora's stuff addressed, this is incredibly flimsy, as the fact that characters speed up when they get magic boosts doesn't inherently mean the boost is the same as the power boost - to say nothing of spells that focus on boosting speed, such as Reinforcement Magic: Leg Strength Boost.
2. Inconsistencies with this Scaling
So, when this multiplier stacking was accepted, it was deemed that there were no inconsistencies with it, thus making it reasonable to implement this. However, as I've recently found, this is actually not the case... at all, actually. I will go ahead and list off examples of these inconsistencies:
The only multiplier that will provide an equivalent boost to both AP and speed will be Zora's Trap Magic, as this is actually directly stated.
So the multipliers are a bust. Where do the characters scale now?
So I've established that the multiplier stacking doesn't work. So, one must ask: Where will the characters scale now? Well, significantly lower, for one. But, more specifically, there are a few calcs I'd like to tackle when looking at this issue. They are as follows:
"But wait, there are two FTL+ calcs, right? Why don't we use those?"
I know this will be a common question, so I'd like to preemptively head off that first. Simply put: I don't believe they should be used, as they contradict Black Clover's narrative. To begin with, one of the calcs is the same Nozel feat I've linked here, so there's that. But also, Light Magic is treated within Black Clover as the ultimate magic in speed, establishing light speed as a hard cap for the verse for some time. I say some time because light speed does get surpassed later, but I'll get to that in a bit. In additon, there's the matter of Julius Novachrono. Julius admits inferiority in speed to Light Magic, which moves at the speed of light. Julius even admits that despite anticipating into the future via Time Magic, he can't catch Patry, who moves at the speed of light. As such, Julius cannot be scaled above light speed. The thing is, though... Julius, as the Wizard King, is superior to all the other Magic Knights at the time.
So, this is what I've come up with:
Agree: 25 (@Serlock_Holmes, @Pedonar, @Manhattanth06, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Kachon123, @Mazdoesstuff, @Memonto_Mori, @KingTempest, @Excel616, @Arc7Kuroi, @Arkenis, @SuperStar, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Tatsumi504, @Irineu, @Romeu08, @Maverick_Zero_X, @Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye, @DemonGodMitchAubin, @ssgengar, @Tamasensei123, @YeahhBoyee, @Damage3245, @Deceived3596, @LephyrTheRevanchist)
Disagree: 2 (@Arnoldstone18, @BlackAstaSenpai)
Neutral: 1 (@Nierre [leaning toward disagreeing])
As a number of you are probably aware, Black Clover's speed ratings are massive right now, reaching Massively FTL+ speeds, specifically up to hundreds of thousands of times the speed of light. Very impressive, for sure... Except, I don't believe it to be accurate at all. In short, this speed rating has nothing to support it beyond a usage of multipliers that isn't actually accurate to how they're shown in the series, in conjunction with the fact that their magnitude does not match the minimal evidence given for applying these multipliers to speed.
Note: Do NOT turn this into a discussion about Attack Potency. The AP buffs are far more supported within the story, and this discussion is strictly about speed.
Let's begin...
Why is Black Clover's speed so high?
So, let's begin with the million dollar question: What exactly got Black Clover's speed to such a high rating to begin with? Well, this seems to stem from three key factors:
- When characters receive boosts to their magic, they appear to speed up as well. To draw an example, Yami was being consistently outsped by 80% Dante despite keeping up with 60% Dante prior. There are tons of examples of this, but this one is the easiest to conceptualize due to the blatant percentage jump, in my opinion.
- Zora’s Trap Magic is stated to double the speed and power of spells it sends back
- Later, Asta refers to this as “doubling the magic” itself, which Zora does not refute
Well, let's get into the problems with it.
Problems with Black Clover's Speed Scaling
As can be surmised from the title of this CRT, this method of speed scaling carries many, significant problems that result in this scaling being very inflated. I'll be going through these one by one.
1. Zora's Trap Magic
As Zora's Trap Magic is a key part of this scaling, I feel it's appropriate to tackle this first. The main point of argumentation is this:
"Zora's Counter Traps double magic, as said by Asta. Zora also never refutes this, despite knowing his own magic better than anyone. Therefore, doubling magic = doubling AP and speed"
I never understood this, because in the context of the scene, they're literally in the heat of the moment. Asta and Zora were arguing about whether they'd escape or help Mereoleona after she stayed behind to fight a group of elves. So basically, not exactly the time to be going the equivalent of "well ackshually
".In addition, Mimosa specifically refers to its power and speed rather than the magic itself. That is to say, there was no reference to any change in the quantity of the magic, despite magic detection being Mimosa's specialty.
Overall, the evidence used to equate "doubling magic" to "doubling both attack power and speed" is very flimsy, which is in stark contrast to the massive multiplier stacking being done. And, as per the Multipliers page, this is pretty damning:
Going by our multipliers, the highest speed rating is 12000x higher than the calc it's scaling from. This is massively disproportionate to the solidity of the evidence in such a multiplier stack's favor.
With that addressed, the other point to note is the fact that characters get faster when they get magic boosts... One problem, though. There's a difference between "getting faster to an unknown degree" and "getting faster to the same degree that you get stronger." With Zora's stuff addressed, this is incredibly flimsy, as the fact that characters speed up when they get magic boosts doesn't inherently mean the boost is the same as the power boost - to say nothing of spells that focus on boosting speed, such as Reinforcement Magic: Leg Strength Boost.
2. Inconsistencies with this Scaling
So, when this multiplier stacking was accepted, it was deemed that there were no inconsistencies with it, thus making it reasonable to implement this. However, as I've recently found, this is actually not the case... at all, actually. I will go ahead and list off examples of these inconsistencies:
- Supposedly, 100% Dante is 500x faster than Magna despite being tagged by him here
- An amped Mermaid Form Valkyrie Dress Noelle matches 50-51% Vanica's speed and is still even with her at 65-67%. Also, in the former scan, Noelle only notes that Vanica got a power boost from her 1% increase in Devil Power usage. There's no mention of speed.
- Gauche, Grey, Gordon, and Sally are all comparable in speed to one another. Sally then boosts her magic tenfold, but doesn't react to Grey changing her magic's properties until after it's already happened
The only multiplier that will provide an equivalent boost to both AP and speed will be Zora's Trap Magic, as this is actually directly stated.
So the multipliers are a bust. Where do the characters scale now?
So I've established that the multiplier stacking doesn't work. So, one must ask: Where will the characters scale now? Well, significantly lower, for one. But, more specifically, there are a few calcs I'd like to tackle when looking at this issue. They are as follows:
"But wait, there are two FTL+ calcs, right? Why don't we use those?"
I know this will be a common question, so I'd like to preemptively head off that first. Simply put: I don't believe they should be used, as they contradict Black Clover's narrative. To begin with, one of the calcs is the same Nozel feat I've linked here, so there's that. But also, Light Magic is treated within Black Clover as the ultimate magic in speed, establishing light speed as a hard cap for the verse for some time. I say some time because light speed does get surpassed later, but I'll get to that in a bit. In additon, there's the matter of Julius Novachrono. Julius admits inferiority in speed to Light Magic, which moves at the speed of light. Julius even admits that despite anticipating into the future via Time Magic, he can't catch Patry, who moves at the speed of light. As such, Julius cannot be scaled above light speed. The thing is, though... Julius, as the Wizard King, is superior to all the other Magic Knights at the time.
So, this is what I've come up with:
- Base Asta (Eye of the Midnight Sun Arc) = 0.22c (Relativistic) -> Via Gauche's calc
- Patry/Fana/Raia/Vetto/Base Asta (Witches Forest Arc) = 0.22c (Relativistic) -> Can blitz EMS Arc Base Asta
- Base Asta (Royal Knights Exam Arc)/Mereoleona = 0.44c (Relativistic) -> Intercepted a doubled speed Elemental Quintet, which is > Raia's speed
- Black Asta (Royal Knights Exam Arc) = 0.88c (Relativistic+) -> Blitzed Rage Power Langris, who is 2x faster than his base form due to intercepting his own base form's attacks reflected at double the speed; his base form is comparable to Asta's
- Nozel/Julius = 0.89c (Relativistic+) -> Via Nozel's calc
- Light Magic = 1c (Speed of Light) -> Stated multiple times to move at light speed
- Demon Light Magic = 1.1c (FTL) -> Superior to Light Magic in all aspects, including speed
- Lucifero = 1.78c (FTL) -> Matched the speed of a punch that was twice his casual speed, which is superior to that of Devil Union Asta, who is far superior to Elf Arc characters
Agree: 25 (@Serlock_Holmes, @Pedonar, @Manhattanth06, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Kachon123, @Mazdoesstuff, @Memonto_Mori, @KingTempest, @Excel616, @Arc7Kuroi, @Arkenis, @SuperStar, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Tatsumi504, @Irineu, @Romeu08, @Maverick_Zero_X, @Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye, @DemonGodMitchAubin, @ssgengar, @Tamasensei123, @YeahhBoyee, @Damage3245, @Deceived3596, @LephyrTheRevanchist)
Disagree: 2 (@Arnoldstone18, @BlackAstaSenpai)
Neutral: 1 (@Nierre [leaning toward disagreeing])
Last edited:
agree FRA
