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Bill Cipher Dreamscape Key and Other Upgrades

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You probably need to ask more of the listed people.
 
Oh hey Bill isn't going to have 4-D AP that can only effect 3-D beings anymore. Neat. Also, this will line up nicely with the smashverse being Low 2-C with spirits. Bill vs Game & Watch, anyone?
 
One cannot possibly imagine how much I agree with this.

This upgrade would make a lot of Ford's statements and fears be more tangible (and logical) you know.
 
Sorry, but where does Higher-Dimensional Existence even come from? Cuz I'm pretty sure coming from a higher plane of reality isn't enough to guarantee that. And pretty sure Bill was physically damaged by 3-D objects in Weirdmageddon
 
Look, not much will likely happen here unless you ask some staff members to respond, as I instructed earlier.
 
Okay. Thank you.

If that does not work out, you can ask some other staff members as well:

VS Battles Staff
 
Most likely because it was powered by the multidimensional portal Bill tricked Ford into building. Which is in the post, btw.
 
Someone requested me to be here & I'm disappointed at the realization (something I once again should've known sooner) about Bill Cipher being physically 4-D has noticeable flaws and I eventually have to disprove them, oh well:

  • "Bill Cipher is a threat to the multiverse and is implied to be capable of destroying, affecting or manipulating it entirely"
Bill Cipher is considered a threat to the multiverse in other ways but being presumably implied to be able to destroy/affect/manipulate it anyway isn't one of them. I constantly hear some people mention this a lot but forgot to realize that not only has Bill Cipher never actually displayed this level of power (he only has one 4-D feat but it doesn't even scale to him physically, sad really) but also has been making deals with various people, appeared in various of people's dreams, and has even stated to be capable of traveling through multiple alternate realities. Through these methods, we know Bill Cipher is a threat to the multiverse this way since certain people know how powerful he is and his true intentions for world domination.

  • "Bill Cipher is easily higher-dimensional with his multidimensional makeover after regaining physical"
Just in case someone makes this argument, this is false since he is specifically referring to these specific dimensions: width, height, length, and depth. If we follow 2-D being transcending to a 4-D being in the 3rd dimension assumption as to defend 4-D Bill would sound so illogical.

  • "Bill Cipher is physically 4-D since he originated in the Nightmare Realm which a higher-dimensional place"
This couldn't be any further from the truth since Bill Cipher has objectively being 2-D throughout the entire series up until the 3 parts of Weirdmageddon started in which after he regained his physical form, he becomes 3-D while still having and that's it. Also, lower-dimensional beings like Bill Cipher before being liberated from the Nightmare Realm existed there too, so no one should be making that argument.

  • "Bill Cipher can manipulate both space & time, so that makes him automatically 4-D"
The dude did this in his 2-D form and when Bill Cipher gets his 3-D physical form, he's somehow physically 4-D? Lol. I can list various of characters who can manipulate both space & time but aren't legitimate 4-D beings.

So anyway, I guess we are stuck with High 3-A Bill Cipher for now as his only best feats we can scale to his physical stats is being able to bestowal infinite power and the other things backing it up. The only 4-D feat Bill Cipher has (but doesn't physically scale to him) is creating a rift to the Nightmare Realm by breaking the inter-dimensional rift (the globe object Standford used to possess) and if the rift isn't sealed soon, it will end their universe by creating a Big Rip (which was explained by Stanford in Weirdmageddon) that Time Baby was specifically referring about since he started the rip of their dimension (the rift to the Nightmare Realm) will destroy the fabric of existence (another way of saying space-time).
 
if i'm correct there is an entire blog dedicated to debunking High 3-A Bill

i'll try to find it and see if there is something correct there
 
I remember Cipher refering to humans as "one lifespan, three dimensional, five sense skin puppets." I mean, that description's most likely pejorative, and would mostly imply he's superior to that.
 
Mk, good luck with that.

Speaking of what @Nedge mentioned, I agree with Bill Cipher being unbound to Time and being superior to the Time Baby (it's not really "slightly" since Bill Cipher managed to one-shot him in a simple laser blast) and that link would also support Time Baby being High 3-A since it stated that he's almost as powerful as Bill Cipher I suppose. Regarding the Dreamscape (2-D) Bill Cipher key, I guess I can agree with the Nonexistent Physiology and Void Manipulation (its rather a form of erasure to be specific. For everything else, I don't agree with.
 
The Archdemon said:
I remember Cipher refering to humans as "one lifespan, three dimensional, five sense skin puppets." I mean, that description's most likely pejorative, and would mostly imply he's superior to that.
Click to expand...
this
 
God, it's been a long time since I've been involved on this wiki but I've been called and I will answer. Alright, so, 2D Bill was a thing but that it's no longer applicable because it was stated during Weirdmageddon 1 that in regards to his current form and his current power, Bill said he "wasn't always this way," and said to Ford "imagine living in the second dimensions, flats minds in a flat world with flat dreams." He then said he "liberated his dimension" and told Ford he had "come to liberate yours." The implications of Bill's "liberation" was him destroying the 2nd dimension as seen in his eye during the dialogue. During the dialogue, he expresses the second dimension and then when he says "I liberated my dimension," it's seen that the dimension is engulfed into flames and destroyed. So I'd say Low 2-C would be more fitting seeing as he destroyed an entire dimension, the rebuttal of it being a second-dimensional dimension would be accurate but it's seen that beings who came from that dimension are static even when in their dimension, we saw it with GiFfany who moved freely in her second dimensional home.
 
I think that Magi Hussie seems to make sense.
 
I refuse to waste too much time on this, but I have to just poiny out the massive problem with your assumptions Penguin.

GIFfany was not in the second dimension. And no matter how much you bring up her rating, she's an AI program, not a lowerdimensional being. The ability to move between computers means nothing here.

Especially because destroying infinite 2D dimensions is still not tier 2.


And again, everyone seems to be forgetting that to get AP, you need to be able to hurt or cause destruction on that level. Even if Bill had infinite energy, it is not aplicable to his AP, let alone his striking strenght. He's 11-A regardless, as he can affect imaginary stuff only.
 
Yeah agreed with Ricsi here. The whole Bill Cipher rating has been a back and forth charade for years now. I think we can say now after everything that has been said, Bill is High 3-A physically to 2-A overtime.
 
I am still iffy because of the fact that he makes fun of humans for being 3-D, I mean it would only make sense if he himself was above that or else it would be derogative

and does transcending concepts like time and other make you 4-D, just something i was wondering about, don't know if bill even fits into this
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
No he does not. He blatantly lacks infinite power. He cannot even hurt a 10-B, let alone a High 3-A because of one statement he made in that book.
Click to expand...
Did Bill not also make mabel land, a high 3-A structure? And which 10-B are you refering to?
 
I am referring to before dreamscaper, because the quote was from a Bill before it as well.
 
I mostly agree with Ricsi-viragosi here.

  • Higher-Dimensional Existence: Even Mokey Mokey from yu-gi-oh is from a higher plane of existence, he's only 10-C.
  • Nonexistent Physiology: He should have it, as well as not being able to do much with it.
  • Void Manipulation: It's just Dream Manipulation, he was in a dream.
  • 2-A/3-A/Whatever Shacktron: No. That has a hilarious amount of assumptions.
Also he should have Intangibility.
 
He's fairy type despite being a machine, clearly a deceptive god.
 
Oh, I thought we were discussing Bill post destruction of his home realm, not in the dreamscape. My apologies, yes, BIll in Dreamscape is 11-A, unbound and full power Bill is High 3-A - Low 2-C to 2-A.
 
He's already rated Unknow, at least High 3-A, at most 2-A, but the 'almost as stronga s me" statement came from his dreamscaper self is the problem.

Like previously, I still say that the authors give no ***** about consistency as far as bill goes. Like, genuinly this is like trying to put a logical tier onto Karate Kid.
 
The logic they used is that "a second dimensional being destroyed his home second dimension reality so it made him a higher dimensional being, far beyond human comprehension." That's the only logic I could find in it, having a second-dimensional being going from second-dimensional capability to infinite third-dimensional to nigh fourth-dimensional power makes no damn sense.
 
There is also the problem that giving tiers in the Gravity Falls multiverse is plain impossible because you can end up eating a planet as a normal human in there, so pinpointing what is just the laws of reality not making sense and what would be a feat is hard.

I feel that something like the chaos realm would work like that one SCP nexus that makes every being on an even dimensional standing or such, but that's just me writing the story for the author.
 
they focused more on character rather than power i will admit, but he barely even appears in any episodes anyway so they basically just allowed him to do whatever for plots sake while trying to use his origin which for consistency doesn't really help
 
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