Ben 10 - Low 2-C Alien X proposal

[Reiner04]

Oke so, I once had already made a thread on it before but I didn't really put up any good argument at that time because of being new and not well aware of vs battle rules. So I hope everyone will look at it this time around once again.

My proposal for Alien X being Low 2-C is based on the conclusion of all evidence that I'm going to suggest.

1. Definition of the universe.
2. Evidence of spacetime being involved in the destruction.
3. Alternatives to look up.
4. null void is a separate spacetime continuum
5. alien x can destroy entire universes

NOTE : Please do not reach the conclusion based on just one out of all points as the conclusion I have drawn is the sum up of all.

Universe
"The universe (Latin: universus) is all of space and time[a] and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, and all other forms of matter and energy."

as of we already know that "universe", the word alone itself includes spacetime not just matter, and hence on literal saying "Destroying the universe" should be low 2c but in fiction Destroying the universe can have aspects where the destruction of spacetime is not involved but just matter, energy, which leads fandom to see "universe destruction" from different aspects.
But I suggest that the scaling of the universe's destruction should be observed on How fundamental it is before reaching its conclusion. If its destruction has been suggested and observed to be more fundamental than just matter then there shouldn't be a reason to not scale it to that.

Evidence of spacetime being involved in the destruction.
Yes, there are several pieces of evidence itself in the show that spacetime was involved in the destruction of the universe.
The first evidence is the "Ben 10 Omniverse Universe VS Tennyson" episode
In this episode Ben gets dragged to the intergalactic high court by celestial sapiens where he was charged for
recreating the entire universe and everything in it, altering the fabric of reality of the universe.


And visuals of the destruction itself were not a typical omnidirectional explosion but rather a kind of fire burning the paper, the same as how the chrononavigator was Destroying timelines.

Also even though the expansion of the explosion was clearly seen by everyone on the earth including rook and also its rate of expansion on visuals wasn't that high yet no one in the universe among trillions of life forms knew that universe was destroyed and recreated and as rook said "he has no memory of universe being destroyed" and it has been checked at the intergalactic high court by some kind of device that rook really has no memory of it.
My point here is that Annhilarg destroyed a slice of the timeline, from when it started to where it ended, causing no one ever knew if it happened or not.
Click on the image below to see the video

Alternatives to look up
In the episode "so long and thanks for all smoothies" Serena and Bellicus mentioned that it is too late to save the universe, now why It's important to look at? Because it was not late for them to Save the dinosaurs from extinction? How come they can interfere with something that happened millions of years ago but cannot with something a few minutes ago? Being too late doesn't make sense and we even have clockwork who is capable of Time travelling.

Supportive scans from uncertain canon
Oke, I do know it has already been discussed that there is no confirmation that if Parallel paradox comic is canon or not, but I'm not here either to discuss it.
I'm rather than using this comic to add new feats, using its depiction of the same feat which has already been shown in the episode. My idea of using the same version of this feat from this source is the same as the idea of using a default real-world-based universe in fiction even if it's not stated to be inspired by the real world. We do assume that the universe inside the fiction which has been established has to be the same as our IRL universe unless stated or shown otherwise. Just like that, there shouldn't be a reason to assume that the depiction of the same feat would be different in different sources by the same official media unless stated otherwise.

​

In this comic, the events of "So Long and Thanks for all the Smoothies" have been described and Paradox confirmed that the universe and its time was destroyed.

Null void is a separate spacetime

The Null void is said to be an alternate dimension by Vilgax and was mentioned to be separated from the dimension Ben and others reside in by a dimensional barrier.





Null void in Ben 10 is mentioned to be an extradimensional prison in a Guide book and in a Show. "Extradimensional" refers to a dimension beyond our own typical (3+1) dimension of space and time. It doesn't only mean higher dimension but it can be used to refer to parallel universes or dimensions outside of our spacetime continuum/Einstein spacetime continuum and it has been seen to be used for parallel dimensions by rook when he referred Ben 23 as an "Extradimensional " counterpart.

Also in Ben 10 hero's United Ben said that dimensional disruptor is sounds like null void projector after listening to the explanation of Caesar, the dimensional disruptor is capable of creating a spacetime rift to connect a parallel universe, proving that null void is a different spacetime continuum.
And null void is the part of an entire/whole universe as it has been suggested in the show. Despite spending a big part of his life and already knowing that null void is an alternate dimension, Kevin in the forge of creation said "I thought the universe is everything" after seeing another universe in front of him, which suggests that null void is a part of the universe. And in the episode weapon XI part 2, servantis said to Ben "No one in this universe or any other will be able to bring Ben Tennyson back" while being in the nullvoid proving that null void is a part of the universe.
And each timeline branches off from the prime timeline must also have its own null void if they use it to imprison criminals, Just like this classic alternate Ben 10000 future timeline which has it's own null void , which confirms that null void despite being separate spacetime continuum is a part of timeline. Nullvoid is also created by galvans
Also, there can be more than one spacetime continuum in the same timeline, and a great example is Dragonball, in which even a single universe hAve more than one spacetime continuum, and entire timeline has way more than 12 spacetime continuum. And, Nullvoid (a said alternate dimension) was introduced in Ben 10 classic when the concept of the multiverse wasn't yet introduced, and even after the multiverse was introduced in the next series yet it was never said or specified that null void exist outside of the universe, leaving no reason to assume so unless stated otherwise. Just like how the room of spirit and time in Dragonball was introduced in DBZ when the concept of other universes was yet to introduce, in the DBZ it is said that the room of spirit and time exists outside of the dimension Goku and other resides and is separated by dimensional barrier yet it is considered the part of universe 7, even though it is never stated but it's just that multiverse wasn't introduced at this point of time when ROSAT is introduced, so there is no point in thinking that, neither when the multiverse was introduced it is ever specified to be outside of universe, so yeah.
On the other hand, the null void have evidence that it exists in the universe and it was introduced before the multiverse was established, well far before actually, so I guess we are there already
Also it has been stated no less than 5 times that Alien X created "entire/whole universe and everything in it", even by starbeard.

Alien x can destroy entire universes



I know bubble multiverse is a thing where universes can be put under the same spacetime continuum, but I assume that here it's not the default case, rather universes are treated as separate spacetime continuums unless stated otherwise. So I guess destroying more than one universes should put him there.

 

[Panache_x]

Ok...took some time to go through it and I don't have profound knowledge on the verse but it looks really straight forward
U're suggesting the word "Universe" used in the verse would automate "Space-Time"
Ok to avoid repeating what u already Said... it's fine
Agree with it

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Tbh honest it matters not what irl we call universe. What matters is what fiction calls universe. If its consistently called space-time, then destruction of universe is low2C.
I have always found disingenuous how we treat universal destruction in such cases as this as just spatial destruction... because then its stops being universal destruction.

 

[Reiner04]

Tbh honest it matters not what irl we call universe. What matters is what fiction calls universe. If its consistently called space-time, then destruction of universe is low2C.
I have always found disingenuous how we treat universal destruction in such cases as this as just spatial destruction... because then its stops being universal destruction.

In the intergalactic high court it was mentioned that fabric of reality was involved in the alleged crime. And no one in the entire universe had memory of this event even though rook, argit has seen it start off.
Also the depiction of the same event/feat in the parallel paradox comic has mentioned that time did get created by alien x. Isn't it enough to call it low 2c?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

"Fabric of reality" same as universe is subject to classification as given by verse itself. If refers to space-time, then sure. Low2C.

I am currently outside rn.. but from a cursory glance the feat in question does qualify as Low2C. I will give me my opinion once again when I am home.

 

[Reiner04]

"Fabric of reality" same as universe is subject to classification as given by verse itself. If refers to space-time, then sure. Low2C.

I am currently outside rn.. but from a cursory glance the feat in question does qualify as Low2C. I will give me my opinion once again when I am home.

Thanx, and yup fabric of reality in the show has been stated and represented as spacetime continuum by paradox and some other.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

OP is weak and the comics are non canon. I do, however, have stronger evidence to suggest low 2-C might be legit. Just not here.

 

[Reiner04]

OP is weak and the comics are non canon

I'll call it uncertain in terms of canonicity but I rather than using it to add new feats using the depiction of the same feat which has been shown in canon, there shouldn't not be any reason to treat the same feat differently from two different official sources unless stated or shown to contradict each other. Also, in the intergalactic court it was mentioned that fabric of reality was involved in the alleged crime. And visuals of the distruction is already seems more fundamental than just what destruction of the matter looks like.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I believe for manga/anime stuff... we allow stuff to be used from both mediums as long they don't contradict each other during relevant instances.

 

[Reiner04]

I'm just treating it as an official source describing a event happened in canon, like guidebooks, magazines or other official sources.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hmm I can understand the motive in that line of thought. That's fair as long as it fits.

 

[Aachintya31]

Following Since A Year .Finally Account was Approved


Agreeable as long we consider fabric of reality as space-time
However i have stronger evidence to support Low 2C .Can i Propose them ?

 

[Reiner04]

However i have stronger evidence to support Low 2C .Can i Propose them ?

Not now, it would be quite messy having that many things to discuss.

 

[Reiner04]

However i have stronger evidence to support Low 2C .Can i Propose them ?

But, as long as it's what you want you can do it.

 

[Aachintya31]

But, as long as it's what you want you can do it.

Okay.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

OP is weak and the comics are non canon. I do, however, have stronger evidence to suggest low 2-C might be legit. Just not here.

I meant *now. Not “here”. My apologies .

 

[Aachintya31]

The arguments we have for 3-A alien is that alien X wasn't able to recreate the past.
By Definition of 2-C , we have

Characters who can significantly affect ,create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

In the episode "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad Ben World: Part 1"
We Were Clearly Shown the Imperfect Mr.Smoothy Logo Recreated By Alien X implying Alien X's universe recreation reaching beyond the normal space between two universes .In Ben 10 Alternate realities are Branched from Ben Prime's Timeline As Explained By Professor Paradox Having said this ,it is not possible for Mad's Ben universe to have the imperfect Mr. Smoothy Logo without the past being recreated since his universe was a result of Branching of Ben Prime's Timeline .Since No watch Ben And His Own Past Had the Old Mr.Smoothy Logo ,this would simply mean that alien x wasn't able to recreate time perfectly As Ben's Jacket was also changed despite him not being erased .This proves he did recreate the past.

​

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Snip

Anything is possible in different timelines so we don’t know how Ugly Smoothie came to be in the Mad Ben universe. Nothing suggests the Annihilargh affected other dimensions either. Especially when Servantis knew of the universes destruction while still being in the null void.

Anyway, the prime universe has its own spacetime. Since there's no time where they are and the creation of the universe includes time then yes the universe has it's own spacetime. The issue I bought up was the destruction of the universe not having an effect on the past. However, there is a possible solution.

We know this is what the prime universe, which has its own spacetime, looks like. However the timelines look like this. Which is completely different from what we're shown. We even see another shot of the universe in UA and it looks nothing like the branching timelines we're shown in OV. Another detail, they exit the timestream to recreate the universe.

Keep in mind there are dimensions parallel to the prime universe that are infinite (Null Void) or have different time physics altogether (Legerdomain). Even more evidence is that Paradox differentiates universes timelines and dimensions.

I think it's very likely that a single timeline is actually 2-C with multiple dimensions in each timeline.

 

[Eficiente]

Sorry but none of the evidence is good, minus that comic.

Universe
"The universe (Latin: universus) is all of space and time[a] and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, and all other forms of matter and energy."

as of we already know that "universe", the word alone itself includes spacetime not just matter and hence on literal saying "Distroying the universe" should be low 2c but in fiction Distroying universe can have aspects where the distruction of spacetime is not involved but just matter, energy , which leads fandom to see "universe distruction" from different aspects.
But I suggest that scaling of the universe distruction should be observed on How fundamental it is before reaching out it's conclusion. If it's distruction has been suggested and observed to be more fundamental than just matter then there shouldn't not be a reason for to not scale it to that.

Time isn't this thing that means 1 take. If time were to always means "all of time in a timeline from the start to the end" then yes, destroy the universe would be Low 2-C. And then you have the use of time as in the present time, like asking "What time is it?" and a million other things, it only refers to the present time or a certain point or period intended by context, with no regard to the rest of time in a whole timeline. By that alone you can destroy the universe and not destroy time as in the whole timeline's time, and do destroy time as in the present's time, thereby the future's, with everything in the past not being destroyed; that's not Low 2-C.

Looking at it as "How fundamental it is" is a farce. That doesn't mean anything, it's like a nice way of saying "look at how special they portray it and if it's super special it should be Low 2-C". 3-A is just as fundamental, just less powerful by sheer comparison of standards we made up, destroy all of reality as in 3-A is as fundamental as it can be. We cannot use that made up standard because it doesn't mean anything in this context, we can only see if they destroyed the timeline or time as in all of time in the timeline, because that's the real standard.

Evidence of spacetime being involved in the distruction.
Yes, there are several evidences itself in the show that spacetime was being involved in the distruction of the universe.
First evidence is "Ben 10 Omniverse universe Vs Tennyson episode"
In this episode Ben gets dragged to the intergalactic high court by celestial sapiens where he was charged for
recreating the entire universe and everything in it, altering the fabric of reality of the universe.

You say this as if it couldn't be 3-A.

And visuals of the distruction itself were not ordinary typical omnidirectional explosion but rather kind of fire burning the paper, same as how chrononavigator was Distroying timelines.

This doesn't matter. If anything the visuals showing it destroys the present space over time go against it.

Also even though the expansion of the explosion was clearly seen by everyone on the earth including rook and also it's rate of expansion on visuals wasn't that high yet no one in the universe among trillions of life forms knew that universe was destroyed and recreated and as rook said "he have no memory of universe being destroyed"

They wouldn't know if Ben created them from before the expansion happened, if so meaning that they originally did see it.

and it has been checked at the intergalactic high court by some kind of device that rook really have no memory of it.
My point here is that annhilarg destroyed a slice of timeline, from when it started to where it ended, causing no one ever knew that if it happened or not.
Click on the image below to see the video

You could say that the Annhilarg destroyed a slice of the timeline just like you could say that it destroyed the universe for some time in the timeline before the universe was recreated, both have the same meaning. If I erase a chair and 10 seconds, later recreate it and say it's the same chair, I could say I destroyed a sloce of that chair's timeline, w/o having the ability to destroy that chair's whole timeline.

Alternatives to look up
In the episode "so long and thanks for all smoothies" Serena and bellicus mentioned that it is too late to save the universe, now why It's important to look at? Because it was not late for them to Save the dinosaurs from extinction? HOw come they can interfere with something happened millions of years ago but cannot with something few minutes ago? Being too late doesn't make sense and we even have clockwork who is capable of Time travelling .

Don't look to deep into it. If something dies then it's correct to say it's too late to save it, regardless of your ability to fix it, as the events went like this: "Something lives->Something died->You fixed it->Something lives", therefore it's correct to say that at one point you were to late to save it because at one point you couldn't stop it from dying and this was an event that happened, the event of dying the first time it's too late to be avoided.

there is no confirmation that if Parallel paradox comic is canon or not, but I'm not here either to discuss it.
I'm rather than using this comic to add new feats, using it's depiction of the same feat which has already been shown in the episode.

It's noncanon unless proven otherwise as with any comic continuation of tv shows and movies. There is no rule on not using new feats from noncanon stuff, the logic goes that any noncanon stuff cannot be used by the mere fact that it's noncanon, don't allow yourself to feel better on using a depiction of a feat that happened in canon as if it were a nobility, doing something wrong and having a limit to it is still doing something wrong. Not to mention that you're sweetening it a bit to make it look better, a "new noncanon feat" is no worse than the "new noncanon info for the canon feat" needs to be upgraded, both are new information that recontextualize how you look at the characters.

Popularly, and this is something pointless to say, DB's team use this logic. They're frauds in some ways, this is either one of them or something they do that doesn't make sense. The way Ben portrays it as if it were only to honor the characters' history, as if he knew it doesn't make sense but applies it anyway for fun, which is fine as a made up rule with that in mind, but the way others portray it is as if this was the correct, logical thing to do, is wrong.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I’m in agreement with Eficiente’s arguments at the moment

 

[Reiner04]

Time isn't this thing that means 1 take. If time were to always means "all of time in a timeline from the start to the end" then yes, destroy the universe would be Low 2-C.

I guess going with what tiering system states even destroying the slice of whole bread of timeline should come under low 2c as even destroying all the matters between 0 to 1 second can have uncountably infinite 3d matter in it.
Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space

You say this as if it couldn't be 3-A.

Is there really something else to think of what fabric of reality can be? I mean it has been used as alternative for spacetime continuum in the verse.

This doesn't matter. If anything the visuals showing it destroys the present space over time go against it.

Wouldn't over that time it can have the argument to hold uncountably infinite 3d matter?

They wouldn't know if Ben created them from before the expansion happened, if so meaning that they originally did see it.

Isn't it assuming something to give a specific result, I mean what have more shown that their memories weren't change or altered regardless if alien x is the one who created them, it can be seen when rook memories was checked and we can see the same mr smoothies logo which was there before that expansion.

There is no rule on not using new feats from noncanon stuff, the logic goes that any noncanon stuff cannot be used by the mere fact that it's noncanon, don't allow yourself to feel better on using a depiction of a feat that happened in canon as if it were a nobility, doing something wrong and having a limit to it is still doing something wrong. Not to mention that you're sweetening it a bit to make it look better, a "new noncanon feat" is no worse than the "new noncanon info for the canon feat" needs to be upgraded, both are new information that recontextualize how you look at the characters

I don't really understand what are the standards here for something to be considered the part of the canon yet,
There is like primary canon, secondary and tertiary canon stuff has been explained on vs battle. But if the canon means that the story has to be in tying with the TV show then I guess it is as it is stated by the author of the comic.

And I don't see the reason to not allow depiction of the same feat from 2 sources which are officially being released intended to be true to the original story and tying into the show episodes to be treated differently.
Writer said that the story is tied up with the story of tv episodes or original.
Also can you look over the nullvoid scan I just added in the OP?

 

[Aachintya31]

Anything is possible in different timelines so we don’t know how Ugly Smoothie came to be in the Mad Ben universe. Nothing suggests the Annihilargh affected other dimensions either.

It is very much true that anything is possible in a different timeline ,however being branched from the prime timeline itself after ben received the omnitrix ,it should have the same logo as the prime timeline much like No watch ben's Timeline or completely different counterpart like Mr.Gyro and obviously not the Alien X's original imperfection ,also it very much seemed that this is a part of Mad Ben's universe much like other buildings buried inside. Moreover ,for furthur evidence we have the interdimensional store 23 (which exists simultaneously in different universes )and Ben's New Jacket along with different setting of the Background And Store Not just Logo suggesting Time was recreated just not perfectly. Different ben realities in ben 10 are physically connected as shown here .The Chronosapien Time Bomb destroyed the realities by making sure Ben Prime doesn't get the omnitrix causing no branching of the said timestream at all and having a single timeline (i.e the No Watch Ben's Timeline). This even explains why no watch ben's timeline was sparred by vilgax. This shows that the prime timeline is itself 2-B (possibly 2-A) as even maltruant exclaimed the timestream to be infinite despite having a beginning and end.

Especially when Servantis knew of the universes destruction while still being in the null void.

Rumours of Ben recreating the Universe were already spreading by word of mouth and rook also points that "Servantis would have heard recently about you recreating the universe" .Servantis also believed that Ben was the one who destroyed the universe which was clearly not the case

 

[Reiner04]

Sorry but none of the evidence is good, minus that comic.

Time isn't this thing that means 1 take. If time were to always means "all of time in a timeline from the start to the end" then yes, destroy the universe would be Low 2-C. And then you have the use of time as in the present time, like asking "What time is it?" and a million other things, it only refers to the present time or a certain point or period intended by context, with no regard to the rest of time in a whole timeline. By that alone you can destroy the universe and not destroy time as in the whole timeline's time, and do destroy time as in the present's time, thereby the future's, with everything in the past not being destroyed; that's not Low 2-C.

Looking at it as "How fundamental it is" is a farce. That doesn't mean anything, it's like a nice way of saying "look at how special they portray it and if it's super special it should be Low 2-C". 3-A is just as fundamental, just less powerful by sheer comparison of standards we made up, destroy all of reality as in 3-A is as fundamental as it can be. We cannot use that made up standard because it doesn't mean anything in this context, we can only see if they destroyed the timeline or time as in all of time in the timeline, because that's the real standard.

You say this as if it couldn't be 3-A.

This doesn't matter. If anything the visuals showing it destroys the present space over time go against it.

They wouldn't know if Ben created them from before the expansion happened, if so meaning that they originally did see it.

You could say that the Annhilarg destroyed a slice of the timeline just like you could say that it destroyed the universe for some time in the timeline before the universe was recreated, both have the same meaning. If I erase a chair and 10 seconds, later recreate it and say it's the same chair, I could say I destroyed a sloce of that chair's timeline, w/o having the ability to destroy that chair's whole timeline.

Don't look to deep into it. If something dies then it's correct to say it's too late to save it, regardless of your ability to fix it, as the events went like this: "Something lives->Something died->You fixed it->Something lives", therefore it's correct to say that at one point you were to late to save it because at one point you couldn't stop it from dying and this was an event that happened, the event of dying the first time it's too late to be avoided.

It's noncanon unless proven otherwise as with any comic continuation of tv shows and movies. There is no rule on not using new feats from noncanon stuff, the logic goes that any noncanon stuff cannot be used by the mere fact that it's noncanon, don't allow yourself to feel better on using a depiction of a feat that happened in canon as if it were a nobility, doing something wrong and having a limit to it is still doing something wrong. Not to mention that you're sweetening it a bit to make it look better, a "new noncanon feat" is no worse than the "new noncanon info for the canon feat" needs to be upgraded, both are new information that recontextualize how you look at the characters.

Popularly, and this is something pointless to say, DB's team use this logic. They're frauds in some ways, this is either one of them or something they do that doesn't make sense. The way Ben portrays it as if it were only to honor the characters' history, as if he knew it doesn't make sense but applies it anyway for fun, which is fine as a made up rule with that in mind, but the way others portray it is as if this was the correct, logical thing to do, is wrong.

Also, I'm not that good with English so my words can seems bit off, like my teacher once called me and rather than asking the reason of phone call, I said "what's the business?" Which Ig was seems rude. Because of my d grade English. So please try to ignore if it looks like one.
Also aren't alternate dimensions separated by dimensional barrier from each other are qualified to be low multiversal or something?

According to vs battle
• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

OR

• being labelled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified. ​

 

[Eficiente]

I guess going with what tiering system states even destroying the slice of whole bread of timeline should come under low 2c as even destroying all the matters between 0 to 1 second can have uncountably infinite 3d matter in it.
Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space

"Qualitatively larger" refers to something else there in the way we use Qualitatively, which the rest of the text goes over what it refers to in practice. It would be super cryptic if this bit of the text were to allow that yet the rest acted as if you needed to do far more.

Is there really something else to think of what fabric of reality can be? I mean it has been used as alternative for spacetime continuum in the verse.

Sorry but that's an excuse, can reality mean universe as in 3-A? Yes. What is "the fabric of" something? Just some way to point something out, it can be all of that something or parts of it that matter a lot in context. No need to push it more than it. If it has been used as alternative for spacetime continuum in the verse then sure, I can believe that w/o checking if in that context it didn't mean universe as in 3-A, that still doesn't mean Ben 10 grabbed in what does it always mean to say "fabric of reality" to always mean timeline rather than universe.

Wouldn't over that time it can have the argument to hold uncountably infinite 3d matter?

I don't think I understand the question.

Isn't it assuming something to give a specific result, I mean what have more shown that their memories weren't change or altered regardless if alien x is the one who created them, it can be seen when rook memories was checked and we can see the same mr smoothies logo which was there before that expansion.

It is because Rook's memories end there that I said that. The Rook who saw the expansion died, but he did see it, Alien X created a Rook from before that point, same with everyone else. I don't know what's the point you're getting at here.

I don't really understand what are the standards here for something to be considered the part of the canon yet,
There is like primary canon, secondary and tertiary canon stuff has been explained on vs battle.

To note, people like DB's research team do not use the terms primary canon, secondary canon and tertiary canon as people should, they just warped it to call non-canon stuff secondary canon if it was fitting to the main canon, like most non-canon stories do. An accurate use of them uses them as what the words imply; all have "canon" in it, so all are canon, the classification they have is the importance they have within canon. For example, in Star Wars Legends they had the main movies as primary canon and the rest was either secondary and tertiary, it mattered "less" but it was all still canon.

Some comic from a tv show or movie is not that, a bunch of them come out in magazines nobody reads or on their own as comics for fun. They can be stories from a series without being canon simply because being that is a common practice, the fact that they exist is cool and that's enough.

But if the canon means that the story has to be in tying with the TV show then I guess it is as it is stated by the author of the comic.

Most non-canon stories are tying with the main series because that's an easy standard to meet, don't say it as if it was an achievement. If you were to define what "tying with the main series" means for non-canon stories you would come to notice how 99% of them do so, they just have to take place in the same universe, use the same characters, maybe recall past events, characters maybe treat each other in ways that make sense given ast events, etc. The real challenge is the canon series calling back things that happened in the those stories, or being confirmed to be canon, which is far more common in resent years.

The comics are still a Ben 10 product, that's not the same to say it's canon, as with anything else.

And I don't see the reason to not allow depiction of the same feat from 2 sources which are officially being released intended to be true to the original story and tying into the show episodes to be treated differently.
Writer said that the story is tied up with the story of tv episodes or original.

"Officially being released" is far lower of a standard than how you portray it. If a fan does a comic, it isn't officially released. If a company makes a product, it is officially released. The latter can happen while it's canon or non-canon, as such, being officially released isn't a point to look at when seeing if something is canon. (It is a bare minimum but that's not what I meant)

Most non-canon stories are "intended to be true to the original story" in canon, if you break down what does it mean to do that you'll find that it's super easy, you just have to use the same settings, characters and make them do things they could do. If anyone does that to their series and then say that they intended to be true to the original story then would they be wrong? No, they wouldn't.

That's not what the writer said.

Also can you look over the nullvoid scan I just added in the OP?

Null void is a separate spacetime
Null void is said to be a alternate dimension by vilgax and was mentioned to be separated from the dimension Ben and others resides in by a dimensional barrier.


And null void is the part of whole/entire universe as was mentioned by Kevin in the episode "forge of creation".

With a "dimensional barrier" between the 2 and the fact that it's another dimension and separated from Ben's dimension, it stands to reason that it wasn't affected. Even if it was, it would be affectd in the same way the universe was.

Alien x can destroy entire universes


I know bubble multiverse is a thing where universes can be put under the same spacetime continuum but I assume that here it's not the default case, rather universes are treated as seprate spacetime continuum unless stated otherwise. So I guess destroying more than one universes should put him there.

This is the best point to make but the lack of clarity and how he has done with 1 universe and could keep on doing it mean that we don't make more of it unless proven otherwise.

Also, I'm not that good with English so my words can seems bit off, like my teacher once called me and rather than asking the reason of phone call, I said "what's the business?" Which Ig was seems rude. Because of my d grade English. So please try to ignore if it looks like one.
Also aren't alternate dimensions separated by dimensional barrier from each other are qualified to be low multiversal or something?

According to vs battle
• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

OR

• being labelled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified. ​

It happens to the best of us. Well, the multiverse isn't real and so the distance between universes is unknown, a "dimensional barrier" seems like it could either be too little if it is an actual barrior or enough & simply called that way. You could have 2 universes and a dimensional barrier in between so that destroying them is 2-C, and you could have a universe and a universe-sized dimension in it with a dimensional barrier in between that and the universe so that destroying the universe is just 3-A.

 

[Reiner04]

With a "dimensional barrier" between the 2 and the fact that it's another dimension and separated from Ben's dimension, it stands to reason that it wasn't affected.

Yea, it has been stated no less than 5 times that entire/whole universe and everything in it was destroyed, even the celestial sapiens came to take Ben to an intergalactic high court said that "did u think that you can escape when u utilised your celestial sapien form alien x to recreate the entire universe and everything in it", which suggests that entire universe which is consistent should be taken as it is, servantis referred Ben's dimension + null void combined as this universe and proceeded to state other universes.

Even if it was, it would be affectd in the same way the universe was.

I was reading a thread on vs battle where I seen that Distroying 2 spacetime continuum or more regardless of if it's entire timeline was affected or not are taken under 2c.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/tier-2-requirements-and-examples-revision.124078/page-3#post-4947742

 

[Reiner04]

I don't know the error but I was unable to add this in OP. With alternate dimension and dimensional barrier statements.
Null void is said to be an extradimension in a guide book and in the show several times, extradimension refers to dimension beyond our typical (3+1) dimension of space time, it doesn't only mean higher but it can means parallel/alternate dimensions outside of our spacetime continuum and it has been seen to used this way by rook when he mentioned Ben 23 as an extradimensional friend. Supporting my point.

 

[Reiner04]

the multiverse isn't real and so the distance between universes is unknown, a "dimensional barrier" seems like it could either be too little if it is an actual barrior or enough & simply called that way. You could have 2 universes and a dimensional barrier in between so that destroying them is 2-C, and you could have a universe and a universe-sized dimension in it with a dimensional barrier in between that and the universe so that destroying the universe is just 3-A.

I don't think different bodies of space within the same universe has ever been called as alternate dimension, not even the guidelines shown by vs battle said so.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Universe
and null void is called by vilgax an alternate dimension and an extradimensional prison by Kevin which suggests it to be different body of spacetime continuum outside of the reality Ben and others resides in, not to mention it is seprated by dimensional barrier. All of this include should qualify it to be a seprate spacetime continuum.

 

[Aachintya31]

I don't know the error but I was unable to add this in OP. With alternate dimension and dimensional barrier statements.
Null void is said to be an extradimension in a guide book and in the show several times, extradimension refers to dimension beyond our typical (3+1) dimension of space time, it doesn't only mean higher but it can means parallel/alternate dimensions outside of our spacetime continuum and it has been seen to used this way by rook when he mentioned Ben 23 as an extradimensional friend. Supporting my point.

This seems to be a very good point.

 

[Reiner04]

This seems to be a very good point.

Yes, it has been even stated in the Ben 10 generator rex hero's United by Ben that null void projector sounds like a dimensional disruptor after listening to its explaination from caesar, dimensional disruptor is a device which created a spacetime rift results a portal which can connect parallel dimensions such as nullvoid. As suggested both are same, confirming more that nullvoid is a seprate spacetime continuum.

 

[Aachintya31]

It is very much true that anything is possible in a different timeline ,however being branched from the prime timeline itself after ben received the omnitrix ,it should have the same logo as the prime timeline much like No watch ben's Timeline or completely different counterpart like Mr.Gyro and obviously not the Alien X's original imperfection ,also it very much seemed that this is a part of Mad Ben's universe much like other buildings buried inside. Moreover ,for furthur evidence we have the interdimensional store 23 (which exists simultaneously in different universes )and Ben's New Jacket along with different setting of the Background And Store Not just Logo suggesting Time was recreated just not perfectly. Different ben realities in ben 10 are physically connected as shown here .The Chronosapien Time Bomb destroyed the realities by making sure Ben Prime doesn't get the omnitrix causing no branching of the said timestream at all and having a single timeline (i.e the No Watch Ben's Timeline). This even explains why no watch ben's timeline was sparred by vilgax. This shows that the prime timeline is itself 2-B (possibly 2-A) as even maltruant exclaimed the timestream to be infinite despite having a beginning and end.

Rumours of Ben recreating the Universe were already spreading by word of mouth and rook also points that "Servantis would have heard recently about you recreating the universe" .Servantis also believed that Ben was the one who destroyed the universe which was clearly not the case

Bump?

 

[Reiner04]

Bump?

Also it is obvious that servantis would have known about Ben recreating the entire universe as it was shown to the trillions of lives among the universe at the trial of intergalactic high court.

 

[Aachintya31]

Also it is obvious that servantis would have known about Ben recreating the entire universe as it was shown to the trillions of lives among the universe at the trial of intergalactic high court.

yes

 

[Reiner04]

Bump

 

[Reiner04]

Sorry but none of the evidence is good, minus that comic.

It's true that prior evidence were not good, but can u give your impression over the new suggested evidences?

 

[Reiner04]

I’m in agreement with Eficiente’s arguments at the moment

Can you reconsider your decision because of addition of new evidences about null void?

 

[Eficiente]

Yea, it has been stated no less than 5 times that entire/whole universe and everything in it was destroyed, even the celestial sapiens came to take Ben to an intergalactic high court said that "did u think that you can escape when u utilised your celestial sapien form alien x to recreate the entire universe and everything in it", which suggests that entire universe which is consistent should be taken as it is, servantis referred Ben's dimension + null void combined as this universe and proceeded to state other universes.

The Null Void isn't in the same universe/dimension/timeline, so it didn't get affected.

I was reading a thread on vs battle where I seen that Distroying 2 spacetime continuum or more regardless of if it's entire timeline was affected or not are taken under 2c.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/tier-2-requirements-and-examples-revision.124078/page-3#post-4947742

If it didn't destroyed 2 spacetime continuum in the first place then there is a clear issue in the premise.

I don't know the error but I was unable to add this in OP. With alternate dimension and dimensional barrier statements.
Null void is said to be an extradimension in a guide book and in the show several times, extradimension refers to dimension beyond our typical (3+1) dimension of space time, it doesn't only mean higher but it can means parallel/alternate dimensions outside of our spacetime continuum and it has been seen to used this way by rook when he mentioned Ben 23 as an extradimensional friend. Supporting my point.

"Extradimension" is as misused in fiction as the word "Dimension", it just means it's a dimension outside Ben's "dimension"/universe.

I don't think different bodies of space within the same universe has ever been called as alternate dimension, not even the guidelines shown by vs battle said so.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Universe
and null void is called by vilgax an alternate dimension and an extradimensional prison by Kevin which suggests it to be different body of spacetime continuum outside of the reality Ben and others resides in, not to mention it is seprated by dimensional barrier. All of this include should qualify it to be a seprate spacetime continuum.

Yes, you're the one who said it's in the universe. Can you show all the evidence of it? The evidence against it is way too abundant.

 

[Reiner04]

es, you're the one who said it's in the universe. Can you show all the evidence of it? The evidence against it is way too abundant.

Despite spending his half of the life in null void and already knowing that it's an alternate dimension, Kevin in the forge of creation said " I thought the universe is everything", when he seen other universes

Servantis while being in the nullvoid said "no one will be able to bring Ben Tennyson back, not in this universe or any other", suggesting that nullvoid is the part of the universe as an whole.

Also plumbers who were created to maintain peace in the universe also maintains the nullvoid, proving it further.


From 9:53.

 

[Reiner04]

The Null Void isn't in the same universe/dimension/timeline, so it didn't get affected.

There is no evidence that null void is not in the same universe/timeline. There can be more than one spacetime continuum in a timeline. Best example is Dragonball.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Zen'ō.
Not to mention each timelines are branches off from primetimeline must also have their own nullvoid if they use it to imprison criminals. Just like this alternate future timeline, which confirms that nullvoid despite being seprate spacetime continuum (sub timelines) is a part of all encompassing timeline.

In dragonBall even universe 7 has shown to contain more than one spacetime continuum which is written on vs battle page clearly.
The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected.

Also nullvoid has more better and good evidence to be separate spacetime continuum than of room of spirit and time in dragonBall. So ig it works. Also 2c universe/timeline is possible.

 

[Aachintya31]

Also nullvoid has more better and good evidence to be separate spacetime continuum than of room of spirit and time in dragonBall. So ig it works

iirc the wiki already accepts the room of spirit and time as a separate spacetime within universe 7 but doesn't consider it to be a 2-C feat due to it being a Planet Sized
whereas the null void is infinite in size and qualifies vsbw standards.

 

[Reiner04]

iirc the wiki already accepts the room of spirit and time as a separate spacetime within universe 7 but doesn't consider it to be a 2-C feat due to it being a Planet Sized
whereas the null void is infinite in size and qualifies vsbw standards.

Yes