Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

[Ghengiroo115]

Oh, two things about 5YL low tiers that I just realised:

1. One time when discussing Vlad and his advantage over Ben, they show the moment where Vlad casually tosses Four Arms aside as an example of Ecto-Energy “doing a number on my aliens” (in Ben’s own words).
2. Ben uses Rath against the mutant Bens, who should be at most comparable (most likely weaker) than Four Arms. Mutant Bens can fight against Lucky Girl and Lucky Girl is comparable to both Technus and Danny.

This suggests that Vlad has a sort of “type advantage” against Ben’s aliens thanks to his Ecto-Energy that affects physical interactions as well, which based on the Rath stuff would mean that “low tier” aliens actually technically scale to or above Danny and Vlad’s lower forms.

EDIT: Actually wait, Full-Size Humungousaur is also used against the mutant Bens and Rath really shouldn’t scale to him. Think I’m gonna have to rewatch that part to figure out if the scaling can work somehow.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

So I really should be sleeping right now, but that doesn’t seem to be happening so here’s some 5YL speedster stuff from their And Beyond episode:

• Citrakayah can run up to 241 mph on their home world, but can usually run much faster on other worlds due to lower gravity (3:56).
• Not a speed feat, but Citrakayah can lift large rocks and casually toss them away (4:50).
• Kinecelerans can reach speeds up to 500 mph and are fast enough to dodge the “lightning-fast” attacks of the Mollusparx (7:06).
• Reference to XLR8’s “time stop” feat, which like the Citrakayah is achievable due to Kinecelerans being faster off-world (8:23).
• I wanted to put a timestamp to the entire Pollatempus section as I can’t really make heads or tails of a lot of this (I dumb). I will note though that the gravity could be used as an LS feat if it’s calculable (9:24).
• Explanation for a Genus Lepus’ powers starts here (10:40).

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Btw I randomly got recommended this short from The Ink Tank that had the portion of Episode 1 with Danny and Feedback, and just out of curiosity I looked through the comments just to see if anyone else noticed the nerf. Some people did, and they actually got a response from The Ink Tank explaining that it isn’t about the quality of energy but rather the quantity. In other words in not about the raw power of the energy but rather the “size” of the energy and the constant increase that was going into Feedback, if that makes sense. This kinda doesn’t work when applied to canon if you consider the Malware stuff, but since I’m only using stuff referenced in 5YL it’s a good enough explanation.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Btw I randomly got recommended this short from The Ink Tank that had the portion of Episode 1 with Danny and Feedback, and just out of curiosity I looked through the comments just to see if anyone else noticed the nerf. Some people did, and they actually got a response from The Ink Tank explaining that it isn’t about the quality of energy but rather the quantity. In other words in not about the raw power of the energy but rather the “size” of the energy and the constant increase that was going into Feedback, if that makes sense. This kinda doesn’t work when applied to canon if you consider the Malware stuff, but since I’m only using stuff referenced in 5YL it’s a good enough explanation.

So he couldn't absorb the energy properly because of the size of the blast...? That's weird, specially since the BB was bigger than the contumelia ship, but Ben just contained it into a sphere

 

[Ghengiroo115]

So he couldn't absorb the energy properly because of the size of the blast...? That's weird, specially since the BB was bigger than the contumelia ship, but Ben just contained it into a sphere

Yeah it’s a little weird, but I suppose him condensing the Big Bang was so it was easier to control or something?

 

[GeneralSol16]

Yeah it’s a little weird, but I suppose him condensing the Big Bang was so it was easier to control or something?

I think condensing the energy is more impressive than just absorbing it, tho.

But anyways, another story, another context.
RIP L2C Way Bads.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I think condensing the energy is more impressive than just absorbing it, tho.

But anyways, another story, another context.
RIP L2C Way Bads.

Yeah, bit of a shame. In other news:

• In the Krypton & Vegeta episode of And Beyond, Saiyans in their “Senzu Forms” (that’s what 5YL Super Saiyans are called) were powerful enough to save their planet from being destroyed by their universe’s version of Frieza. They even show Frieza using his Supernova, so that’s more support for Tier 5 MonKi (I’m like 90% sure he’s gonna be way higher thanks to later chapters, but it’s nice info to have).
• Dragon Ball Z Abridged is apparently an alternate universe in 5YL??? Dr. Gero has a cameo in the episode with his DBZA voice actor, and there are also a couple other easter eggs referencing specifically DBZA as well. Idk if this majorly affects anything or if it’s even allowed to use the DBZA stuff for cosmology scaling, but it’s a fun thing to note regardless.
• I was gonna read through the later chapters that aren’t adapted yet, but the busyness of the pages combined with the awkwardness of trying to read them on my phone made me stop trying. I’m just gonna wait for the motion comic versions to come out since they’re easier to follow, even if it ends up taking a few months.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Oh absolutely, especially since Way Big tanked a Divinity punch. I think Ben is just generally stronger now.

Well, he always was.
In OV, Ben was able to go against 3 or 4 at the same time.

Depends on whether it’s based on stuff from 5YL or canon, as sometimes they mention stuff like Feedback absorbing Malware’s blast which I don’t believe is ever referenced in 5YL. In this case I believe they’re referencing the speed of Ben 10,000’s XLR8, which I don’t think is useable even if I wanted to use canon feats.

Teah, probable.
Btw, is there a way to calc that feat? We know that Ben was able to do it so fast that the GE were unable to be on time, even when they had teleportation.

Definitely ED for the universe destabilisation, but for the planet destroying I’m not sure. Thinking about it though it probably is given it happens in the exact same scene.

Probably.

I don’t think so, I think it’s just its weird nature rather than raw power.

Uhm, yeah, ig.
But even then, Mana, which is sould and life energy in Ben 10, that is also able to Warp reality, is unable to bug the OV Omnitrix.

I think it might be based on some writer statements that say Alien X is weak to stuff that defies physics.

Ah, DJW, of course.
Funny 'cause Celestialsapiens are immune to any hax or power in the verse, so, the Paradox's abilyto to do that is also useless against them.

Also tbh canon Danny Phantom characters seem kinda cracked already based on their VSBW profiles.

Ig, but even then Celestialsapiens are 1-B here, so under any perspective, they are nothing more than a bug against them.

Tbh they get to Tier 5 just based on mid-tier feats, but yeah those guys and base MonKi are at least Tier 5 and maybe way higher.

Well, it depends on how we calc the feat of Divinity punching Way Big I guess.

That reminds me, didn’t you say Kuro said Super MonKi was a Solar System buster? Where did that come from?.

It was a Statement that Kuro made on discord, but I couldn't find it.

Tbh all three of them might give useful feats considering how barren speed feats are here.

Also the And Beyond of the other races and the Phantom Zone are pretty useful.

 

[BlastX]

Silly anecdote but for the longest time I was confused why Kevin 12 forearms looked the way they did, I thought it was a his mutation making the colors look all weird (like how all green of Ben's aliens is replaced by red for his mutation)...it took me a few years to realize it was Cannobolt's forearms just with Eye Guy's...eyes, replacing the armor.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Well, he always was.
In OV, Ben was able to go against 3 or 4 at the same time.

I meant more that his regular aliens are stronger now, although idk if “regular” is accurate here since Feedback used the Way Bad’s own energy against it. Ah well I’m still technically right.

Teah, probable.
Btw, is there a way to calc that feat? We know that Ben was able to do it so fast that the GE were unable to be on time, even when they had teleportation.

Tbh I know next to nothing about calc stuff so I’m not sure.

Uhm, yeah, ig.
But even then, Mana, which is sould and life energy in Ben 10, that is also able to Warp reality, is unable to bug the OV Omnitrix.

Tbf Gwen did kinda glitch out the Omnitrix in Destroy All Aliens, but yeah overall I guess Ecto-Energy is just “different” somehow. Maybe it has something to do with the lack of life energy, as we know some ghostly species like Ectonurites don’t need life energy to function.

Well, it depends on how we calc the feat of Divinity punching Way Big I guess.

I don’t think it would matter since stuff like the Black Hole feat, Senzu form Saiyans being Frieza level, Divinity having over half the energy of a dwarf star and other stuff make the planet punch thing kinda obsolete scaling-wise. Then again sometimes something that looks a certain level ends up being a billion times stronger so maybe it would be worth it just in case.

It was a Statement that Kuro made on discord, but I couldn't find it.

Ah, shame. Universal might be on the table though based on some vague Chapter 9 stuff and my foggy memory of future chapters, so hopefully we won’t need it.

Also the And Beyond of the other races and the Phantom Zone are pretty useful.

Yeah rn I’m gradually going through the And Beyond episodes, both for feats and just to generally watch in some cases since I haven’t watched every episode yet.

 

[GeneralSol16]

So, by now.

Who is stronger: Omniverse Ben or 5YL Ben?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

So, by now.

Who is stronger: Omniverse Ben or 5YL Ben?

Depends on which metric you look at it by. Basing off the wiki profiles, OV Ben has better strength scaling for low tiers and better speed scaling for low-mid tiers. 5YL Ben on the other hand has much more variety with his aliens, better strength scaling for mid tiers, probably better strength scaling for high tiers and iirc better speed scaling for high tiers. Overall I’d say 5YL takes it.

 

[BlastX]

I mean 5YL Ben has Master Control so one should take that in mind because it's a unfair advantage.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Depends on which metric you look at it by. Basing off the wiki profiles, OV Ben has better strength scaling for low tiers and better speed scaling for low-mid tiers. 5YL Ben on the other hand has much more variety with his aliens, better strength scaling for mid tiers, probably better strength scaling for high tiers and iirc better speed scaling for high tiers. Overall I’d say 5YL takes it.

Idk, OV Ben should upscale 5YL High Tiers via Atomix and Eatle (if they aren't uni level or something like that).

Speed regards, I don't remember any feats that high in 5YL.

 

[GeneralSol16]

I mean 5YL Ben has Master Control so one should take that in mind because it's a unfair advantage.

He doesn't use it that much as Classic Ben, tho.
UAF and OV Ben can change to alien to alien via thought, and OV Ben doesn't have a timeout at all more than "Goes back to human, but can change immediately"

 

[BlastX]

I think that's just a retcon because 11 Year Old Ben also works like that.

 

[BlastX]

BTW, who do you think is stronger?

11 year old Ben or 15 year old Ben before the highbreed war?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Idk, OV Ben should upscale 5YL High Tiers via Atomix and Eatle (if they aren't uni level or something like that).

Technically yeah, 5YL would just be a stronger OV Ben, but I was basing it purely on feats in 5YL.

Speed regards, I don't remember any feats that high in 5YL.

I belueve Divinity had an Infinite speed feat or something which Powerhouse Playlist aliens would scale to, but maybe I’m not remembering some context in the later chapters that makes that not work.

 

[BlastX]

He doesn't use it that much as Classic Ben, tho.
UAF and OV Ben can change to alien to alien via thought, and OV Ben doesn't have a timeout at all more than "Goes back to human, but can change immediately"

Yeah but AFAIK 5YL Ben never mistransforms.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

BTW, who do you think is stronger?

11 year old Ben or 15 year old Ben before the highbreed war?

GOATback Way Big solos

 

[BlastX]

I think Young Ben using Feedback would give Teen Ben PTSD Flashbacks.

 

[GeneralSol16]

I think that's just a retcon because 11 Year Old Ben also works like that.

With Feedback, 11 Ben wins.
Without him, AF Way Big stomps.
Also, none of Ben's OS aliens can resist absolute zero.

 

[BlastX]

With Feedback, 11 Ben wins.
Without him, AF Way Big stomps.
Also, none of Ben's OS aliens can resist absolute zero.

I said before the Highbreed war, as in AF Ben only has the initial 10 of the recalibrated Omnitrix.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Yeah but AFAIK 5YL Ben never mistransforms.

True, but, EoS OV Ben learned / accepted how the Omnitrix works: It will always give him the right alien, so he will never fail at all, or mistransform.

 

[GeneralSol16]

I said before the Highbreed war, as in AF Ben only has the initial 10 of the recalibrated Omnitrix.

Sorry, you're right.
Then Big Chill via AZ, probably

 

[GeneralSol16]

Yeah but AFAIK 5YL Ben never mistransforms.

Neither does OV Ben (EoS), tho.
He will always get the right alien for the job, as he states at the end of the Announcement scene, and learns it very well.
He can also recharge practically in an instant, so he doesn't have a timeout at all.

 

[BlastX]

Neither does OV Ben (EoS), tho.
He will always get the right alien for the job, as he states at the end of the Announcement scene, and learns it very well.
He can also recharge practically in an instant, so he doesn't have a timeout at all.

Why did you reply to me twice?

 

[GeneralSol16]

Why did you reply to me twice?

I think is an error of my phone or the page, I didn't know.

Sorry, I'll delete the clon.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Ahh, I see what are you referring to.

Ups, I forgot that I've already answered you lol.

 

[GeneralSol16]

It would be cool if the Plumbers had a page like other verses and armies.

Probably it would around:
Attack Potency: At least Large Planet, possibly Dwarf Star level. (The Plumbers have incredibly advanced technology, they've shown comparable to Ben's weaker aliens and his friends, even Crashhopper was unable to make a dent on a Plumber tank, saying that "their technology is too good", a random Plumber uniform was able to let a normal human be at the same as a 10-Years Old Tetramand, as well as being able to overpower a Rock covered Kevin Kevin) Their ships are able to be on par with Incursean ship. The fusion granedes are capable of harming Ultimate Kevin, and destroy something that not even a 15-Years Old To'kustar could). Up to At least Solar System level, possibly Multi Solar System level (Some of the best Plumber rifles was able to harm Malgax)

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Random Plumbers are on par with Ben's weaker aliens, their ships are able to cross interstellar distances in a matter of seconds).

OR something like that.

 

[NXCHT.66]

Hey, are you guys scared here?

Ben 10 : How great is this thing?

Classic continuity: Michael Morningstar: Shockwave Generation : [shown here] Forcefield Creation : [shown here] Summons : [shown here] Skilled fighter (Martial Arts) : shown while fighting Kevin [shown here] Telekinesis via Magic [shown here] Four Arms: Resistance to Extreme Cold and...

vsbattles.com

 

[GeneralSol16]

Is there a reason to why we don't scale Ascalon above the Annihilation and/or the Chronosapien Timebomb? I mean.

• Azmuth says that Ascalon is the only weapon capable of harming Dagon, and he should know about the Annihilarg and the CTB.
• Vilgax says that Ascalon is the greatest power that he has felt, even when he's in possession of the CTB since 1700's.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Is there a reason to why we don't scale Ascalon above the Annihilation and/or the Chronosapien Timebomb? I mean.

• Azmuth says that Ascalon is the only weapon capable of harming Dagon, and he should know about the Annihilarg and the CTB.
• Vilgax says that Ascalon is the greatest power that he has felt, even when he's in possession of the CTB since 1700's.

I don’t think there’s proof he knows the Annihilaargh actually exists (although I imagine he probably does), and in both cases there’s the big issue of them both being uncontrollable destruction on a universal-multiversal scale. They both potentially could kill Dagon, but they’d also destroy everything else in the process.

 

[GeneralSol16]

I don’t think there’s proof he knows the Annihilaargh actually exists (although I imagine he probably does), and in both cases there’s the big issue of them both being uncontrollable destruction on a universal-multiversal scale. They both potentially could kill Dagon, but they’d also destroy everything else in the process.

Yes, but Vilgax saying that the sword is the biggest source of power he has ever had puts it above the CTB without the issue of "too powerful to control".
Especially when you can protramate the bomb to affect something specific.

 

[Spilxson2]

Ben Tennyson Intelligence Upgrade

His profile currently doesn't have any intelligence rating at all. Not even "Average". I'm putting justifications as to why it should be "Gifted", or at least "Gifted in Combat" Azmuth says the Omnitrix is beyond Albedo, a Galvan with genius intelligence, but still entrusts it to Ben Azmuth...

vsbattles.com

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Yes, but Vilgax saying that the sword is the biggest source of power he has ever had puts it above the CTB without the issue of "too powerful to control".
Especially when you can protramate the bomb to affect something specific.

I’m not sure if the CTB would count for the “never felt so much power” thing, since he’s referring to a surge of power he can physically “feel”.

 

[GeneralSol16]

I’m not sure if the CTB would count for the “never felt so much power” thing, since he’s referring to a surge of power he can physically “feel”.

Wouldn't that be used as a argument against the current level of Ascalon?.

• Element X wouldn't be count against Dagon because that would wreck the entire solar system.
• Vilgax never felt directly the power of Ma Vreedle's missile, and that without saying that maybe she didn't had that missile during UA, probably.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Wouldn't that be used as a argument against the current level of Ascalon?.

• Element X wouldn't be count against Dagon because that would wreck the entire solar system.
• Vilgax never felt directly the power of Ma Vreedle's missile, and that without saying that maybe she didn't had that missile during UA, probably.

Ascalon doesn’t directly scale to those things, it just scales to other Galvan technology which upscales from those things due to Galvans being the only beings with the weapons to take on the Highbreed fleet.

That’s also something that further pushes the idea that the CTB destroys stuff on a timeline-by-timeline basis, since obviously the CTB can destroy the Highbreed yet it isn’t considered by Azmuth.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Okey.

But I don't know, the Element X is said to be pretty rare the iron ore even more difficult.