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Ben 10 - Alien X Infinite Attack Speed

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Abu2411 said:
No, all I'm saying is that to assume those orbs were moved by an external force requires at least some indication of such a thing happening, and we are not given one. So the simplest explanation in this scenario is that the orbs moved automatically.
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I am not assuming anything at this point, I am asking a simple question. Under what machinations or logic did the orbs move of their own accord automatically as you put it?
I presented the most cogent reason I could think of under the circumstance, so is that correct or do you have another hypothesis?
Because let me tell ya, you are creating more illogical scenarios then the most logical one most people would think of under the circumstance.

So how did the orbs move automatically?
 
Aachintya31 said:
What about bellicus and Serena absorbing a purple energy (similar to annihilarg's destruction energy) and releasing it across the universe. It's also supporting infinite attack speed.
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Where? Because this is just range, not infinite speed. Recall how destroying an infinite universe doesn't grant infinite speed when done in a single action.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
I am not assuming anything at this point, I am asking a simple question. Under what machinations or logic did the orbs move of their own accord automatically as you put it?
I presented the most cogent reason I could think of under the circumstance, so is that correct or do you have another hypothesis?
Because let me tell ya, you are creating more illogical scenarios then the most logical one most people would think of under the circumstance.

So how did the orbs move automatically?
Click to expand...
The orbs moved as part of Alien X's thought to recreate the universe. This does not mean that Alien X is actively controlling the orbs (since there is nothing to suggest as such) rather this is a creation feat, which as I've explained before wouldn't apply to speed in this case. Alien X thinks, and the universe is recreated, it is not infinite speed since it happened in a single thought/action on Alien X's part.
 
Abu2411 said:
It wouldn't be since we see no indication of him controlling the orbs in the first place. What we are shown are the orbs moving by themselves, and any further assumption such as Alien X being the one moving those orbs would require evidence to be based on.
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it's the oposite, there is nothing suggesting that they are moving by themselves so we assume that alien x is controling them
 
Reiner said:
Prove it.
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It's a fact that Alien X's thoughts can become real, which is something already within the profile as well. We are given no indication that it took him more than a single thought to do so.
omegabronic said:
it's the oposite, there is nothing suggesting that they are moving by themselves so we assume that alien x is controling them
Click to expand...
The issue here is that we are given no indication to prove that Alien X was moving those orbs, or that those orbs needed to be moved in the first place, which is why the simplest explanation would be that the orbs moved automatically.
 
Abu2411 said:
It's a fact that Alien X's thoughts can become real, which is something already within the profile as well. We are given no indication that it took him more than a single thought to do so.
Click to expand...
Alien X thought becomes real is not a proof that he created the universe in one thought when the steps it happened was multiple. Now can you show any statement to prove your point?
 
Abu2411 said:
The orbs moved as part of Alien X's thought to recreate the universe. This does not mean that Alien X is actively controlling the orbs (since there is nothing to suggest as such)
Click to expand...
There is you literally see it with your eyes
Abu2411 said:
rather this is a creation feat, which as I've explained before wouldn't apply to speed in this case.
Click to expand...
Dude wtf are you even saying here???He moved those star like white dots from his body too the outer space then the creation of the galaxies appeared Alien X would have moved every galaxy too it's location as it is said that Ben created an exact replicate of the former Universe.
Abu2411 said:
Alien X thinks, and the universe is recreated, it is not infinite speed since it happened in a single thought/action on Alien X's part.
Click to expand...
Was there even a statement that clarified that the creation of the universe happened instantly? It's not the universe that is being discussed here why mention it? It's the GALAXIES that are being moved and we were shown the process of it.

I'm also wondering how did they move without being manipulated too move to their exact location???
 
Abu2411 said:
It's a fact that Alien X's thoughts can become real, which is something already within the profile as well. We are given no indication that it took him more than a single thought to do so.
Click to expand...
if it was all just thought based then why did he raised his arms?

Abu2411 said:
The issue here is that we are given no indication to prove that Alien X was moving those orbs, or that those orbs needed to be moved in the first place
Click to expand...
we don't need to prove a negative, you are suggesting a posivtive of "the orbs moved on their own" so you are the one who needs to prove that

Abu2411 said:
, which is why the simplest explanation would be that the orbs moved automatically.
Click to expand...
no it wouldn't since inanimate object don't move on their own, to say that they do here requires proof
 
Abu2411 said:
The orbs moved as part of Alien X's thought to recreate the universe. This does not mean that Alien X is actively controlling the orbs (since there is nothing to suggest as such) rather this is a creation feat, which as I've explained before wouldn't apply to speed in this case. Alien X thinks, and the universe is recreated, it is not infinite speed since it happened in a single thought/action on Alien X's part.
Click to expand...
1)Alien X isn't just creating a random universe, the universe he needs to create mandatorily requires conscious thought and precision.

2) If something moves, it can be given speed, just because a single thought was required to create the universe doesn't mean the components didn't need to move to their intended locations.

3) You still haven't answered my questions, what phenomenon is propelling the orbs to their location? What phenomenon controls the precise morphing of the orbs into their precise replicas?

4) What you are proposing still counts as speed feat of some sort, not indifferent to Submarine releasing a preprogrammed torpedo, or a F15 launching a sidewinder or sparrow, or a country launching a ICBM.
If Alien X is directing the orbs to move and morph to their intended location and form automatically, then that just counts as a preprogrammed maneuver, which is still an attack speed feat.

5) I do not at all agree with you btw , imo considering this is a deliberate activity of creating a very specific version of universe, the entire process being under firm and conscious control of Alien X, automatically makes him responsible for controlling the orbs. Majority disagrees with you, consensus is that this is TK, which fits the mind controlled movement and transmutation of objects or energy.
 
Reiner said:
Alien X thought becomes real is not a proof that he created the universe in one thought when the steps it happened was multiple. Now can you show any statement to prove your point?
Click to expand...
You're assuming something that wasn't shown. We are told that Alien X objective, the decision he reached with his personalities was to recreate the universe, so it's on you to prove that he did this with multiple thoughts rather one, single action.
Forthegood said:
There is you literally see it with your eyes
Click to expand...
What we see are the orbs moving by themselves with no indication that Alien X is the one controlling them. He's just standing there.
Forthegood said:
Dude wtf are you even saying here???He moved those star like white dots from his body too the outer space then the creation of the galaxies appeared Alien X would have moved every galaxy too it's location as it is said that Ben created an exact replicate of the former Universe.
Click to expand...
Your argument is assuming that the orbs were moved by him, when again, we aren't given any notion that that is what happened.
Forthegood said:
Was there even a statement that clarified that the creation of the universe happened instantly? It's not the universe that is being discussed here why mention it? It's the GALAXIES that are being moved and we were shown the process of it.
Click to expand...
Except the point isn't that the universe is being created instantly, its that Alien X does so in a single thought, which forms the universe.
Forthegood said:
I'm also wondering how did they move without being manipulated too move to their exact location???
Click to expand...
As I explained before, The orbs moved as part of Alien X's thought to recreate the universe. This doesn't mean Alien X is actively controlling the orbs, and we see no indication that he does so.

omegabronic said:
if it was all just thought based then why did he raised his arms?
Click to expand...
He doesn't raise his arms as the orbs appear and move, unlike when he raises his arms for telekinesis.
omegabronic said:
we don't need to prove a negative, you are suggesting a posivtive of "the orbs moved on their own" so you are the one who needs to prove that
Click to expand...
You are the ones who need to prove the assumption that Alien X moved those orbs. I am going off by what we see when the feat is performed.
omegabronic said:
no it wouldn't since inanimate object don't move on their own, to say that they do here requires proof
Click to expand...
These orbs are by definition not inanimate, they are quite obviously moving.

GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
1)Alien X isn't just creating a random universe, the universe he needs to create mandatorily requires conscious thought and precision.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't need to no, Alien X would just need to think, and the universe will form.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
2) If something moves, it can be given speed, just because a single thought was required to create the universe doesn't mean the components didn't need to move to their intended locations.
Click to expand...
Except in this scenario it would not scale to speed since its a creation feat, and creating something in a single thought even if it is infinite would be a range feat if anything.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
3) You still haven't answered my questions, what phenomenon is propelling the orbs to their location? What phenomenon controls the precise morphing of the orbs into their precise replicas?
Click to expand...
I've already explained that it is Alien X's thought to recreate the universe which causes the orbs to appear and move themselves to their designated positions. And as before, since it is a single thought it wouldn't scale to infinite speed.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
4) What you are proposing still counts as speed feat of some sort, not indifferent to Submarine releasing a preprogrammed torpedo, or a F15 launching a sidewinder or sparrow, or a country launching a ICBM.
If Alien X is directing the orbs to move and morph to their intended location and form automatically, then that just counts as a preprogrammed maneuver, which is still an attack speed feat.
Click to expand...
Read above. It wouldn't be an infinite speed feat since Alien X recreates the universe through a single thought/action.
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
5) I do not at all agree with you btw , imo considering this is a deliberate activity of creating a very specific version of universe, the entire process being under firm and conscious control of Alien X, automatically makes him responsible for controlling the orbs. Majority disagrees with you, consensus is that this is TK, which fits the mind controlled movement and transmutation of objects or energy.
Click to expand...
Again, the crux of the issue is that Alien X's single thought about recreating the universe is what forms it and because it was a single action on Alien X's part, we cannot scale it to his speed. To prove that he was consciously controlling the orbs we would need at least some indication of such, but we aren't given one. So we go by what we are shown, which is the orbs moving themselves to their positions after Alien X makes the decision to recreate the universe.
 
Abu2411 said:
You're assuming something that wasn't shown. We are told that Alien X objective, the decision he reached with his personalities was to recreate the universe,
Click to expand...
When it happened in one thought? They decided to help ben in bringing up the universe, okay but when it was said to be happened in one thought when steps that was involved was multiple? Why will we assume it? Why galaxies moved with infinite speed on their own w/o alien x command? How this unimaginable, unnatural, unordinary phenomenon happened on it's own? Do you not see how impossible it is?
 
Reiner said:
When it happened in one thought? They decided to help ben in bringing up the universe, okay but when it was said to be happened in one thought when steps that was involved was multiple? Why will we assume it? Why galaxies moved with infinite speed on their own w/o alien x command? How this unimaginable, unnatural, unordinary phenomenon happened on it's own? Do you not see how impossible it is?
Click to expand...
Alien X deciding to bring back the universe happened in a single thought, the process itself doesn't have to be, and again we're not given any indication that Alien X consciously moved those orbs himself so we shouldn't assume he did.
 
omegabronic said:
we are given no indication that it took a single thought, why should we assume that it took just one or any at all?
Click to expand...
Because we already acknowledge that Alien X can do things with just a thought, so we've already established that he created the universe with one. We would need further proof to argue that it was multiple thoughts.
 
Abu2411 said:
Because we already acknowledge that Alien X can do things with just a thought
Click to expand...
he can right, but why should we assume that it was this here when there is indications that he did more than just thinking?

Abu2411 said:
, so we've already established that he created the universe with one.
Click to expand...
when did we?

Abu2411 said:
We would need further proof to argue that it was multiple thoughts.
Click to expand...
him raising his arms?
 
Abu2411 said:
It wouldn't need to no, Alien X would just need to think, and the universe will form.
Click to expand...
You do realise this isn't a pure reality warping feat? This feat is given as AP.

Abu2411 said:
Except in this scenario it would not scale to speed since its a creation feat, and creating something in a single thought even if it is infinite would be a range feat if anything.
Click to expand...
Creation feats don't get automatically disqualified from being evaluated for speed.
Context is king.
You cannot have range without speed, especially for things that move.
Unless the cosmos spontaneously came into existence into their intended locations and relevent forms without any interim process, this isn't a purely range feat.
Abu2411 said:
I've already explained that it is Alien X's thought to recreate the universe which causes the orbs to appear and move themselves to their designated positions. And as before, since it is a single thought it wouldn't scale to infinite speed.
Click to expand...
The Orbs have infinite speed if they move, it's that simple. They didn't teleport themselves spontaneously to their location. Single thought doesn't matter, it's irrelevant. If something moves, it has speed. If it required initial thought to launch itself, then thats attack speed.

Abu2411 said:
Again, the crux of the issue is that Alien X's single thought about recreating the universe is what forms it and because it was a single action on Alien X's part, we cannot scale it to his speed. To prove that he was consciously controlling the orbs we would need at least some indication of such, but we aren't given one. So we go by what we are shown, which is the orbs moving themselves to their positions after Alien X makes the decision to recreate the universe.
Click to expand...
That's...... still attack speed. Single thought or infinite thought don't matter.
You aren't even making sense anymore.

Agree to disagree and leave this to votes. Calling other mods.
 
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