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Abu2411

He/Him
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Hi everyone,

I'm making this thread because the reasoning for Alien X's Infinite attack speed does not make much sense to me.

Firstly, our Speed page states that Infinite speed requires lots of evidence:

"When evaluating speed feats resulting in infinite speed a high amount of scrutiny should be applied. Speed feats of this nature frequently turn out to be Outliers and statements regarding infinity are prone to be Hyperbole. One should consider whether it is more plausible and consistent to assume that the abilities creating infinite distance or zero time were resisted, circumvented or nullified instead, or if Teleportation or similar were employed. Filling or lightning up infinite-sized realms must require substantial amounts of evidence. But if the intent for the infinite-sized realm is clear and repeatedly hammered in multiple times, then there's no reason to assume otherwise and it should be acceptable."

It requires "substantial amounts of evidence" to get Infinite speed, which Alien X does not seem to have. Looking at past threads (thanks to Reiner for linking me up with one) it appears that the basis for Alien X's attack speed comes solely from assuming he moved galaxies across the infinite universe, however this alone is not enough. As you know, an infinite universe does not mean that the contents of that universe have an infinite distance between each other, nor can we assume that Alien X moved these galaxies an infinite distance since there is nothing to suggest that. In fact, looking back at the feat itself, most of the universe is created pretty much instantly after the first few galaxies were made.

In summary, Alien X's feat seems more likely to be a simple Creation feat rather than one which can apply to his attack speed. However, assuming he did move those galaxies then using the old Massively FTL+ calculation Firestorm808 did would be good.

Agree: @LuffyRuffy46307
Disagree (3|18): @Firestorm808, @omegabronic, @Reiner, @RaveeCPN, @Lord_Farquaad69420, @Marshadow29, @Georredannea15, @Lovemovies14, @Maitreya, @ImmortalDread, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer, @GilverTheProtoAngelo, @Vasco, @Robo, @Aachintya31, @Rakih_Elyan, @DemonicDude, @Lonkitt, @Quantu, @Maverick_Zero_X
Neutral
(1|1): @DarkDragonMedeus, @BestMGQScalerEver
 
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Shown? The miniature forms came out of his body and moved their distances and took the right form later on.
Why do we assume that they were moved an infinite distance? I've explained in my initial post that moving something in an infinite space does not mean the galaxies were moved an infinite distance.

This shouldn't fit the requirements for the Infinite speed rating, particularly considering the high standards which the wiki holds it to.
 
Why do we assume that they were moved an infinite distance? I've explained in my initial post that moving something in an infinite space does not mean the galaxies were moved an infinite distance.
For there are infinite solar systems, galaxies in the universe, are they all will be in the finite space? No.
 
For there are infinite solar systems, galaxies in the universe, are they all will be in the finite space? No.
And this is another point I mentioned. In the video, we see a few galaxies being made, then suddenly the earth and many stars appear as the universe is rapidly recreated. Of course, Alien X eventually creates a universe with infinite matter, but recall the quote I gave from the Speed page:

"Filling or lightning up infinite-sized realms must require substantial amounts of evidence. But if the intent for the infinite-sized realm is clear and repeatedly hammered in multiple times, then there's no reason to assume otherwise and it should be acceptable."

Using a video which does not even show us or mention to us that the galaxies are being moved an infinite distance does not seem like sufficient evidence.
 
And this is another point I mentioned. In the video, we see a few galaxies being made, then suddenly the earth and many stars appear as the universe is rapidly recreated. Of course, Alien X eventually creates a universe with infinite matter, but recall the quote I gave from the Speed page:

"Filling or lightning up infinite-sized realms must require substantial amounts of evidence. But if the intent for the infinite-sized realm is clear and repeatedly hammered in multiple times, then there's no reason to assume otherwise and it should be acceptable."

Using a video which does not even show us or mention to us that the galaxies are being moved an infinite distance does not seem like sufficient evidence.
he is filling up the universe with galaxies, said universe is infinite
 
Iirc, the mftl+ calc itself is used via the edge of the universe, the actual ben 10 universe was upgraded to infinite in size with millions to possibly infinite other universes within itself, if we are assuming that ben launched these galaxies to the other universes as well (before creating the spacetimes separating them) then its infinite speed
 
In the video, we see a few galaxies being made, then suddenly the earth and many stars appear as the universe is rapidly recreated. Of course, Alien X eventually creates a universe with infinite matter
We seen galaxies moving their distances and then attains their true size, the creation of milkey way galaxy where alien x was standing happened the same way as of all other, that not contradiction.

"Filling or lightning up infinite-sized realms must require substantial amounts of evidence. But if the intent for the infinite-sized realm is clear and repeatedly hammered in multiple times, then there's no reason to assume otherwise and it should be acceptable."
We scale alien X via creating the universe and all things happened at that time, so it's not really matters, alien x appearance itself is just 4 times the entire show for it to be an outlier or consistency issue.
Using a video which does not even show us or mention to us that the galaxies are being moved an infinite distance does not seem like sufficient evidence.
Has been discussed before alot of times. What has been shown in the screen will be assumed for all unless stated or shown otherwise. Claiming something else/extraordinary would require more evidence, sagan standard and occam's razor.
bro said hyperbole, how the hell is an onscreen feat hyperbole
Don't yk dragonball universes didn't get upgraded to high 3-A, so it's just after issues.
 
he is filling up the universe with galaxies, said universe is infinite
Creating an infinite universe does not grant you infinite speed.

We seen galaxies moving their distances and then attains their true size, the creation of milkey way galaxy where alien x was standing happened the same way as of all other, that not contradiction.
No, we see a few galaxies being made this way before the entire universe is remade at once.
We scale alien X via creating the universe and all things happened at that time, so it's not really matters, alien x appearance itself is just 4 times the entire show for it to be an outlier or consistency issue.
It's not an issue about anti-feats, more so that there isn't sufficient evidence for Infinite speed in the first place.
Has been discussed before alot of times. What has been shown in the screen will be assumed for all unless stated or shown otherwise. Claiming something else/extraordinary would require more evidence, sagan standard and occam's razor.
Except that's another part of the issue. We aren't shown the galaxies moving an infinite distance, nor is it mentioned that they literally moved an infinite distance. We just see the galaxies be moved a certain distance before materialising, along with the rest of the universe.
 
We aren't shown the galaxies moving an infinite distance,
Why would we? Do you want to see infinite galaxies in 2:57 minutes of TV show? Or you want to see them moving infinite distance in 16:16 of TV screen? As I said, what has been shown for seen things in the universe will be assumed for non seen things as well in the show unless proven otherwise. That's the reason we have each Dimension in the universe to be of infinite size, because known Dimensions are infinite. We follow sagan standards.
 
Why would we? Do you want to see infinite galaxies in 2:57 minutes of TV show? Or you want to see them moving infinite distance in 16:16 of TV screen?
alien x should have created ALL of the galaxies and moves them this way rather than just some, it wouldn't make sense for him to do this with a select few and leave the rest to a different way, and x needed to have sent them to the other dimensions as well with are an infinite distance away
 
Why would we? Do you want to see infinite galaxies in 2:57 minutes of TV show? Or you want to see them moving infinite distance in 16:16 of TV screen? As I said, what has been shown for seen things in the universe will be assumed for non seen things as well in the show unless proven otherwise. That's the reason we have each Dimension in the universe to be of infinite size, because known Dimensions are infinite. We follow sagan standards.
it does if you do so by physically moving the things inside the universe to do so
These two points are related. Moving something within an infinite space does not grant one infinite speed either because the distance between two points in such a universe isn't infinite.
Never happened.
Rewatch the video. A few galaxies are created and then the universe is remade at once after that at 2:37.
 
Rewatch the video. A few galaxies are created and then the universe is remade at once after that at 2:37.
Did you saw galaxies attaining their full size (multiplying) after reaching their right places? Yes

Are you confusing Milkey way galaxy just attaining their size where Alien X standing with the creation of entire universe? Yes.

Alien X didn't created entire universe after creating few galaxies. It's just dumb for alien x to do. Milkey way galaxy just got created and attained it's size as of all other galaxies. Look at the video and the things once again.
 
Also derailing but wouldn't the chronosapien time bomb speed be immeasurable attack speed via destroying all timelines since iirc mechikabura is rated that speed for destroying all timeline that way
 
Rewatch the video. A few galaxies are created and then the universe is remade at once after that at 2:37.
The methodology is that an energy ball is moved to a location, and it expands into a galaxy. What you see around Alien X is the Milky Way galaxy expanding around him, not the whole universe.
 
Did you saw galaxies attaining their full size (multiplying) after reaching their right places? Yes

Are you confusing Milkey way galaxy just attaining their size where Alien X standing? Yes.

Alien X didn't created entire universe after creating few galaxies. It's just dumb for alien x to do. Milkey way galaxy just got created and attained it's size as of all other galaxies. Look at the video and the things once again.
We don't know if the galaxies he created during that timeframe included the Milky Way. We see the Milky Way directly be created, along with the rest of the universe instantly at 2:37.
The methodology is that an energy ball is moved to a location, and it expands into a galaxy. What you see around Alien X is the Milky Way galaxy expanding around him, not the whole universe.
And how is this infinite speed? We see orbs traveling a distance which we cannot assume to be infinite, since once again, the distance between 2 points on an infinite plane is not infinite.

The simplest explanation is that Alien X recreated the universe, which is a creation feat and hence would not scale to his speed at all.
 
Sigh
We already scale it to MFTL+ when universe was finite and ended up scaling it infinite as of change in Cosmology. As for forcing the interpretation that alien x created entire universe in one go after creating few galaxies lacks evidence and is extraordinary claim to begin with. He created milkey way galaxy like he created all other galaxies and sent them off to their places. Milkey way didn't had to go anywhere. That said. I disagree and as for reasons till now it won't change because of repetition either.
 
We don't know if the galaxies he created during that timeframe included the Milky Way. We see the Milky Way directly be created, along with the rest of the universe instantly at 2:37.
That's not what they are saying, they are saying the galaxies moving were NOT the milkyway as how on earth is he going to move the milkyway ontop of himself, it wouldn't make sense for alien x to crease 5 galaxies and then create the universe
And how is this infinite speed? We see orbs traveling a distance which we cannot assume to be infinite, since once again, the distance between 2 points on an infinite plane is not infinite.
Because the orbs must have travelled to the other spacetimes which are an infinite distance away
 
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