Bayonetta vs Ren Fuji

[CrossverseCrisis]

Was gonna do something that's normally not allowed to do (coughHajunvsMythosNyarcough) that i also would have like Azzy to try at doing but eh, another time.

So i thought this would be an alright battle to do given Bayo's number of hax and equipment despite the AP and Dura disadvantage.....i get it.

Anyways, this is base Bayonetta from the first game and she's allowed to have her summons in this battle (albeit, only those that are Tier 7-ish and not the Tier 6 ones). She has all of her known equipment from the first game as well so there's that.

Ren is as he is from most of the routes of the VN at his base, only having his natural abilities and not anything else like Eine Faust Scherzo or Finale. Just Overture, the things you see on his page, and his Holy Relic.

Fight takes place in that one city Bayo was in at the beginning of Bayo 2 (i think it's New York? IDEK, i gotta go back and check that).

Like that Dante vs 3 Commanders fight i did, i wanted to know more if Bayonetta and her stuff is enough to take out Ren....maybe. Aside that, who wins this and why?

Ren Fuji/Zarathustra: 0

Bayonetta: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

First off while Bayo can stop time and stack it I wanna know how strong and potent is her soul manipulation cause Ren deals with those on a basis and molecular disintegration doesn't help as Ren's soul is still intact along if he gets a good slice to the neck Marie's embrace will take Bayo's head off (not voting yet until ik how strong is the soul manipulation)

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

At least you care to vote~ T-T

On a serious note, i'm not really sure how potent it really is. I think Weekly may be able to answer it as he's one of the people we have that knows quite a lot of it. Perhaps maybe Dragon or somethin'...

Hmm....wouldn't Bayo's equipment, sorts of powers, and summons of Tier 7 be able to balance out against Ren or maybe not so much?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....Bayo vs a Masadaverse character is already a red flag

Umm Well Bayo's soul powers likely won't help her here. Also Bazillions is useless against someone with Low-Godly Regen. At the same time Ren's Soul powers aren't useful here since Bayo is resistant enough to pull her own soul back into her body. But unlike her Ren has plenty of other ways to kill her. Basically decapitation unless Bayo with Witch Time can knock him out for a bit. I sadly don't see Bayo winning this...If it weren't for the regen she'd be fine.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Would it be possible for her to get into Paradiso and attack from there or does he have a way to fight her while she's there?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Ren doesn't have a way to fight people doing that AFAIK.

Seeing as you're here Weekly, can you tell us how potent Bayo's soul hax is exactly? That's a rather important thing to have when dealing DI/KKK characters (as Trex once noted out in Masada-related threads off this wikia in other places like Spacebattle).

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Nobody then. I guess that's why people like the antags better than the protags....

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Whoops, forgot to respond to this, my bad

Um...hmm...its actually kinda hard to tell the potency of her her soul hax when everyone she fights either has a resistance to soul hax or is weak enough to be killed in a few hits. All we know is Shuraba sucks out the soul of whoever it cuts. Quite an effective weapon against characters who can literally reach out and pull their souls back into their bodies...

 

[CynicalWeeaboo]

Granted I don't do Masadaverse, at least not yet since the novel isn't translated just yet, but I'm going Ren. IIRC aren't soul attacks as inherent in DI as atomic destruction is in Saint Seiya?

Gonna give it to Ren. Maybe 7/10? If I'm being nice. Time hax is also a pretty good bonus that I don't remember Bayo having any way to counter.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Cynical Bayo is immune to time slows and stops, she fights several opponents who can use said abilities in both games

Edit: Huh, it appears as though i forgot to add that to her profile...

 

[CynicalWeeaboo]

Ah alright. Been a while since I've played the games. Though I still stay by what I've said. Even if time slowing her doesn't work, Ren can still accelerate himself, no?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Looking at his profile he would only be faster than Bayo if he had access to Eine Faust Scherzo and Finale, which he is not allowed in this fight. Basically all he has in this fight is Eine Faust Overture and Margueritte Bois de Justice, nothing else.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

First, I don't actually know either of the verses well, if I'm wrong on any points tell me.

Ren's attacks actually damage the soul directly as opposed to pulling it out, so her resistance to that might not be great.

His time abilities are pretty much noped, as Bayonetta has fought other witch time users (I think), but has definitely fought Light Speed users without being troubled by the time abilities.

Pretty sure that Bayonetta's whole combat style involves getting in, racking up some damage and getting out before the counter, so Ren managing to cut her neck is unlikely. That being said, he probably doesn't need to, as she doesn't have regen. though she can heal with some of her items.

What's the extent of Bay's soul manip?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Monarch Bayo has also resisted having her soul absorbed by the Infernal Demon Resentment (Albeit it was still removed in the process but absorbing her soul is still > just removing it)

Yes she's fought other Witch Time users, she fights Jeanne four times in the first game alone as well as fighting alongside her in the beginning of the first game.

Bayo's Soul Manipulation is only with Shuraba, a weapon that sucks out the soul of whoever it cuts.

Also, like i brought up before, Bayo can always go into Paradiso and attack Ren from there and he wouldnt be able to fight back.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Absorption > Destruction (imo), so she could probably resist the Ren's soul manipulation (how hard did she have to struggle to resist the absorption?)

So Ren's time control (which is like his main ability right? Apart from the scythe that negates regen) is useless against her.

Where is the soul sucked to? Is it just pulled out, or is it absorbed into the weapon? Because afaik Ren's soul doesn't actually need a body, so if it just pulls it out he could regenerate (how fast is his low-godly regen?)

Can you explain the whole "going into paradiso" thing a bit more?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Eine Faust Overture can give Ren the edge as he speeds himself up i mean it sped himself until he can throw hundred of slashes in under a microsecond. Also I just realized Bayo's soul manipulation is pretty crucial as if she isn't as strong as Ren's she might be in a lot of trouble and don't forget Ren has a soul stock so he has more than one soul inside of him (Briah users need a soul stock to sustain it otherwise they end up like her destroyed by her own law). Ren is also resistance to time manipulation while she is immune the thing is that the manipulation isn't directed at her but at Ren himself. He maybe able to blitz her if he uses Overture and cut the neck which with Marie's embrace cuts head clean off so i'll give it to Ren 7/10 but that's with him surprising Bayo. Btw how long can Bayo witch time?

 

[Sparda_20000000]

@Cynical Bayo is immune to time slows and stops, she fights several opponents who can use said abilities in both games

Edit: Huh, it appears as though i forgot to add that to her profile...

Bayonetta isn't really immume to time manipulation she has been caught in time stops in both games in the first game father balder stop time put her bullets in front of her the same thing happened again when masked luman balder stop time and put her bullets behind her

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Monarch The description of Shuraba implies the soul is absorbed into the weapon itself

Bayonetta has the ability to travel into Paradiso (the angel world) which is a mirror of Purgatorio (the he Human world) where she becomes invisible and intangible to those in Purgatorio but can still damage them herself.

@Red Her Witch Time can basically last as long as she wants it to

@Sparda From what i recall he was just depicted as catching the bullets and moving them, and then Bayonetta instantly reacted to them afterwards. She's also moved unhindered in both slowed and stopped time from both Jeanne and Balder in both games so...

Also, not sure how helpful this would be in this fight but a common ability that people often forget about Bayonetta is she can time travel...

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

How free is her time travel? If she can just time travel freely, then she could go back to before Ren did the Die Eglick ritual and kill him.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Mmm.

If that's how she can do with it, Bayo's Witch Time will practically cancel out Ren's Overture Briah. And @Weekly, just to note, Overture just does the same thing as Schezro(?): Increasing Ren's personal speed via time manipulation. From what i've read about it, this allows him to do things like make lightning appear at a crawling speed (this being from when he fought this guy who had this girls Briah; albeit he needs to accelerate to wherever to get that effect however). The latter also just allows Ren to kill those who are of the undead, and in a permanent state of just....well staying dead for good.

Of course i didn't really allow that let alone Finale which, if you had bother to read Ren's page by any chance, allows him to also slow down the time of his surroundings to a near complete halt.

Anyways, does anyone not really consider Bayo doing BFR or even Time Travel like what Monarch said? Like Bayo can literally go back to when he had Assiah rank or even further before that and kill him. That's really he easiest of her that i can see happening.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Monarch All she has to do is place her broach on the ground and she can travel hundreds of years into the past or future.

@Cross Witch Time gives a similar effect, where the attacks of characters who use natural lightning as attacks appear in slow motion.

And yes she could always summon a demon like Hekatoncheir, who is her strongest demon in this scenario, to BFR him into Inferno. And Time Travel is an option as well.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Pretty much tho, right? So if anything, Eine Overture and Witch Time should cancel out which just leaves them at MHS+ still.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well, problem is that's only for a single use of Witch Time, she can also stack Witch Time as well as use it to stop time completely...

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Ah.

Anyways aside that, i don't even know what the votes are here anymore so...

 

[Joshua.foote.14]

I'd say Bayonetta...I looked at the tiers and she seems too strong for Ren to handle...unless we use his 1-A version in which case it's going to be one-sided in Ren's favor.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Joshua: Somebody would be damn ******** AF if somebody uses a 1-A from a verse that Ren's from. And i'm using Base Bayonetta and her Tier 7 summons from the first game. Same with Ren as his base. And you should know very well a 1-A absolutely stomps anyone that's not as strong as them. Try again.

 

[Sparda_20000000]

@Sparda From what i recall he was just depicted as catching the bullets and moving them, and then Bayonetta instantly reacted to them afterwards. She's also moved unhindered in both slowed and stopped time from both Jeanne and Balder in both games so

I just re watch the cutscene balder does put her in a time stop he does the same thing in baynonetta 2

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Do you have links to the clips?

 

[Sparda_20000000]

If you go on the content revision bord I have put the balder boss fight from the first game go into the video at 9:30

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I mean with overture he can blitz but then again witch time…also does Bayonetta time travel or just uses that as a last resort?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'm voting for Bayonetta assuming she doesn't get cocky and leave herself open.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Bump