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Battle Tendency

Arigarmy

Arigarmy

1,855
292
bustin' out my game theory.

In Part 2 Joseph, Lisa Lisa, and Caesar are listed at At least High 8-C for hurting the Pillar Men. This argument has been presented before but I felt like now would be a good time to bring it up. The argument was in the old massive revisions thread, and I didn't want to touch it at the time because half laziness half business, but now I'm inclined to somewhat believe what the original argument entailed.

Hamon ignores durability, so would that be presented as Joseph not being capable of scaling to the Pillar Men AP wise? That doesn't account for durability, because we still get this kind of stuff, but I'm just talking about the AP. I don't think there is a current argument regarding to scaling to the Pillar Men. I could use Joseph breaking off Kar's bone blade, but I'm starting to consider that more as Hamon than physical breaking since an entirety of a vampire body is affected by Hamon regardless of flesh or bone.

Now, I did say not against the Pillar Men, but I didn't say not against a vampire. This is Joseph's only feat that goes on a High 8-C scale, which still relies on scaling because Straizo.

Straizoaf
Anywho, I'm mostly arguing for the Pillar Man scaling argument. I want to see what justifies physically scaling, if there is any.
 
Doesn't hamon not work on pillar men unless ya break their skin first like it was shown with Santana being uneffected untill he started to absorb Joseph?
 
yeah kind of makes sense doesn't seem it scales in true physical sense
 
Couldn't Joseph scale to Straizo, then Caesar to Joseph, then Lisa Lisa to being above pre-training Joseph?
 
Some argue for/against it becuase Hamon and vampire and that stuff but Straizo drew blood on both instances so I think it could.
 
Actually, doesn't Lisa have 3x times as much hamon as Post Caesar Joseph? Wasn't that in her bio around the Whammu vs Joseph fight?
 
I don't get why we're using the multiplier of a non-AP based moveset to determine a physical tiering, it's the same thing with Ultimate Kars and I disagree that saying that his Hamon is 100 times more potent means he's 100 times more powerful than before.
 
No but whatever Joseph can do Lisa should be able to do, 40 years of training, having 3x as much, it only makes sense. Plus technically speaking AP is potency, not destructive capabilities.
 
I don't see how you translate a non-power/destruction based ability that ignores your durability into AP from its potency.
 
Maybe but they definitely >him in all cases except the art of trickery. They should be able to replicate what he can do. And hamon does have some destructive attributes, splitting stone, vaporizing flesh and someone did a calc of the water shot glass a few years back, got a suprising result if recall i nean uts not inherently destructive but it can be used for some minor stuff.

This is a bit off topic, im just saying Lisa should definitely scale to post caesar Joseph opposed to pre training.
 
>splitting stone

That was all Zeppeli, he was just demonstrating that Hamon can transfer damage elsewhere. It's also demonstrated here. I have an entire blog about Part I and Hamon, I remember a lot of this stuff from the back of my hand from rereading 1 a thousand times.

>vaporizing flesh

Of the undead because of Hamon's nature of being a Ripple that counters a vampire's natural Ripple. I know that Kars had done a similar thing, but I don't recall melting being the same thing as vaporizing. That one Kars attack in general is the only time I know Hamon was doing something "offensive".

>calc of the water shot glass

The what?

Regardless I still believe that the Kars statement isn't legitimate when it comes to basing him off a scale of his Hamon potency. Also, Lisa and Caesar should scale easily.
 
I was referring to Kars melting flesh, turns out the vaporizing statement is anime only from Stroheim but melting is still applicable. And that doesn't really make sense, Zeppeli never hit the stone, as far as I recall he used hamon on the frog, it passed through the frog and split the stone, that's still an offensive use of hamon. Also i found it, i was incorrect but it's been a few years so give me a pass. https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/the-ripple-water-jjba.20720/
 
Yeah, he hit the frog, which the damage was sent to the rock. Jonathan hits the mountainside, travels upwards and blows out the small bit of rock Poco was holding onto. Kars is vastly superhuman, I'm sure him being able to use Hamon at a level like that is given, but whatever my dude.

Also after absorbing Caesar's what
 
After Caesar fought Wham and gave Joseoh the last of his hamon like what Will did to Jonathan. The statement of Lisa being like 3x Joseph's hamon is made after that happens.
 
Did Caesar not say something like This is the last of my hamon, take it from me, I always assumed those sparks where him getting said hamon in a similar fashion of what Will did to Jonathan.
 
ok yeah but im still arguing about the kars and offensive hamon claim unless that's already out of the water and the "At least High 8-C" becomes regular High 8-C from weird Straizo scaling
 
I'm fine with downgrading the cast except Kars, including his town key since his hamon amped a million fold caused that eruption, simply taking the eruption and dividing it by a million should get small town in potency then there's the statement (from the narrator I think) that it simply caused it to hit it's maximum power quickly with no multiplication stated opposed to that one Kars statement. So as long as Kars is the same I'm fine, the rest can be downgraded since I never really thought that scaling them to people they can onky fight using hamon was 100% ok anyway outside of durability
 
The eruption itself is a separate key, not Ultimate Kars himself. I also don't recall Kars talking to Esidisi in the manga about the Red Stone.
 
Not what i meant, Kars has a small town key correct? Which is for is 100x Joseph right but you seem to be against that. I propose keeping said key but for a different reason and said reason being his hamon, ampped by the red stone a million fold is at least mountain tier so just divide that by a million and give the result to Kars, of course if the million fold statement isn't in the manga than what? There's that statement of it accelerating it to its maximum power but that'd end up being an upgrade. So just gotta find that million fold statement and then divide the result by a million which would leave Kars at 500tons of tnt going by Tacocat's calc.
 
I linked ya the manga equivalent of the statement I also linked the one where the narrator said Kars' hamon hit its maximum power which was enough to cause the eruption.
 
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