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Battle for #1 of High 6-A: Vecna vs BOB
- Thread starter Maestro46
- Start date
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Vecna since BOB can die from being shot.
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Anyways, so, how does Vecna work.
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How "Direct" is BOB's avatar? Is it like Pennywise or do he still have 1-A abilities in it? Because if he doesen't, Vecna can probably just seal
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BOB's High 6-A key isn't really an Avatar as much as him modulating the density of his existence to match with that of our own Universe, but even in that state he still has power over electricity (and the film) and can access the power of the Lodge, so he arguably still has 1-A shizz, or at the very least Conceptual Manipulation shenanigans.
Anyways, how good is Vecna's sealing? From what the profile says, it can block Teleportation, but BOB's isn't really the conventional type but more like him going "lol Electricity" and adjusting the state of his existence unto higher planes, and doing that he can access the Lodge and realms that exist beyond it pretty much at will, and presumably do that to other people as well, so.
Anyways, how good is Vecna's sealing? From what the profile says, it can block Teleportation, but BOB's isn't really the conventional type but more like him going "lol Electricity" and adjusting the state of his existence unto higher planes, and doing that he can access the Lodge and realms that exist beyond it pretty much at will, and presumably do that to other people as well, so.
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Isn't Vecnas main thing just saying "die"?
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If BOB has 1-A range and hax he probably stomps
Does BOB have an answer to power null? Dispell Magic spells can drain someone of magic powers.
Does BOB have an answer to power null? Dispell Magic spells can drain someone of magic powers.
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BOB: Acausality (Type 5)
Rip Vecna.
Rip Vecna.
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Uh
Why is there no key seperating his powers in his avatar form from his true form?
Why is there no key seperating his powers in his avatar form from his true form?
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I mean, define "Magic". I don't really know if BOB's powers can actually be classified as being this even from Twin Peaks' standards (which are already pretty vague), much less from D&D standards, since they moreso come from the fact he is a glitch in reality than anything else.
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But "Magic" in DnD means a lot of things
It can mean generic fantasy magic but it can also classify things like... Well, y'know
It can mean generic fantasy magic but it can also classify things like... Well, y'know
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Yeah, but what's the "main" definition? Like I said, I am not sure if BOB's power can be really considered "Magic" in the conventional sense, since they mostly come from him tapping into the Lodge + The fact he is sort of a glitch that messes with the fabric of reality and actually breaks down the film itself.
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Technically any form of reality warping is "magic" by DnD standards
Which means the embodiment of magic is weaker than magic users but don't think about it
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Does that include Reality Warping that happens because of a being's inherent nature, too? Because as I said, the thing about Spirits of the Lodge is that they come from a realm that's outside of the dream / story that is existence, so even when manifesting within our reality their presence can break it dow and turn it into static and the like.
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Well, as I've asked before, does BOBs avatar have 1-A hax or not?
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It arguably does, yeah. At the very least he can affect shit on a conceptual level and has 1-A range in this state.
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Why is BOB High 6-A if he's just treated as having 1-A hax, when the High 6-A is rating is given to him for having High 6-A hax?
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Because his 'hax' translates to AP. Controlling the lodge is described as being able to 'Re-order the world to his liking' I assume giving him planet level AP is to much of a highball so Ultima settled for High 6-A instead. Not 100% sure though.
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BOB stomps
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I mostly consider the Spirits themselves as manifested in the physical world as having 1-A hax because, as far as I know, they are the only ones who have been shown to use electricity in order to directly affect the film / plot (As seen in a bunch of scenes in FWWM), something that I wasn't really sure corelated to their AP given how abstract those showings here. There is also that scene where MIKE directly controls the frequencies of reality to bring himself and Cooper into the Room Above the Convenience Store.Ogbunabali said:
I don't really think everyone with Lodge powers has 1-A stuff though, just the Spirits in specific, considering Cooper in Part 18 could only control the curtains of the Red Room to make a passage out of it, and Mr. C was never really shown to be able to control electricity in its metaphysical, aetherial form, as another example.
Udlmaster
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Vecna has a few unique abilities, firstly, via his probability manipulation, he will always go first when he's attacking, and any attack he makes has the highest possible chance of succeeding.Ultima Reality said:
Additionally, Vecna gets a few weeks of precognition prior to the battle starting, seeing all events and the outcome before the fight starts.
Ultima Reality said:
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What do you mean by "he starts first" though? As in, how would that translate into an actual fight?
How good is Vecna's precognition? By that I mean "In what level does it operate?", since like I said, the thing about the Spirits of BOB's kind is that they come from beyond the veil of reality and aren't supposed to be there in the first place, so even when they manifest into lower frequencies of existence, their presence starts to break down time and the narrative to reveal the planes of (non)existence where they come from.
So with that said, I am not sure if Vecna can actually Precog BOB.
"Yes" is a really vague answer though, elaborate on that part at least. Law / Causality Manipulation don't really have anything to do with this match as far as I see too, so :T
How good is Vecna's precognition? By that I mean "In what level does it operate?", since like I said, the thing about the Spirits of BOB's kind is that they come from beyond the veil of reality and aren't supposed to be there in the first place, so even when they manifest into lower frequencies of existence, their presence starts to break down time and the narrative to reveal the planes of (non)existence where they come from.
So with that said, I am not sure if Vecna can actually Precog BOB.
"Yes" is a really vague answer though, elaborate on that part at least. Law / Causality Manipulation don't really have anything to do with this match as far as I see too, so :T
Udlmaster
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>What do you mean by "he starts first" though? As in, how would that translate into an actual fight?
He will attack first, so imagine Bob pauses for a second.
>How good is Vecna's precognition?
He can precog 1-A beings like the Elder Beings from the Far Realm when they involve him.
He can also precog beings like Shar who are nonexistent
So he should be able to precog BOB
>"Yes" is a really vague answer though, elaborate on that part at least.
Well, he can, Wish is a magic which warps reality to make the wish come true.
He will attack first, so imagine Bob pauses for a second.
>How good is Vecna's precognition?
He can precog 1-A beings like the Elder Beings from the Far Realm when they involve him.
He can also precog beings like Shar who are nonexistent
So he should be able to precog BOB
>"Yes" is a really vague answer though, elaborate on that part at least.
Well, he can, Wish is a magic which warps reality to make the wish come true.
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He will attack first, so imagine Bob pauses for a second
That's weird but, fair enough.
He can precog 1-A beings like the Elder Beings from the Far Realm when they involve him.
Aren't the beings from the Far Realm like, as baseline as it gets though? BOB's eldritchness messes with reality on a level that's quite a bit above that (~4-5 layers above baseline if I am remembering it correctly). So as far as I see, Vecna is more likely to only view TV static if his Precog kicks in against BOB.
Also, Vecna's profile says he only has Precognition as a Greater Deity. Might wanna correct that if he has it as a Demigod too.
Well, he can, Wish is a magic which warps reality to make the wish come true.
How does this relate to power null, though?
That's weird but, fair enough.
He can precog 1-A beings like the Elder Beings from the Far Realm when they involve him.
Aren't the beings from the Far Realm like, as baseline as it gets though? BOB's eldritchness messes with reality on a level that's quite a bit above that (~4-5 layers above baseline if I am remembering it correctly). So as far as I see, Vecna is more likely to only view TV static if his Precog kicks in against BOB.
Also, Vecna's profile says he only has Precognition as a Greater Deity. Might wanna correct that if he has it as a Demigod too.
Well, he can, Wish is a magic which warps reality to make the wish come true.
How does this relate to power null, though?
Udlmaster
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>Aren't the beings from the Far Realm like, as baseline as it gets though? BOB's eldritchness messes with reality on a level that's quite a bit above that (~4-5 layers above baseline if I am remembering it correctly). So as far as I see, Vecna is more likely to only view TV static if his Precog kicks in against BOB.
He would see Bob's lower dimensional form fighting him and see the fight weeks ahead, he wouldn't really need to precog Bob himself.
> Also, Vecna's profile says he only has Precognition as a Greater Deity. Might wanna correct that if he has it as a Demigod too.
He's a Lesser God, not Demigod, he's still a God with the Precognition powers, it's just as a Greater God you precog for much longer.
>How does this relate to power null, though?
Yeah, he can casually negate any magic with courermagic
He would see Bob's lower dimensional form fighting him and see the fight weeks ahead, he wouldn't really need to precog Bob himself.
> Also, Vecna's profile says he only has Precognition as a Greater Deity. Might wanna correct that if he has it as a Demigod too.
He's a Lesser God, not Demigod, he's still a God with the Precognition powers, it's just as a Greater God you precog for much longer.
>How does this relate to power null, though?
Yeah, he can casually negate any magic with courermagic
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He would see Bob's lower dimensional form fighting him and see the fight weeks ahead, he wouldn't really need to precog Bob himself.
Yeah, but like I said, even BOB's lower-dimensional form already dissolves reality and the narrative around him, so I don't think Vecna would really be able to Precog events involving him.
Yeah, he can casually negate any magic with courermagic
Well, again, I'm not really sure if BOB's more esoteric powers can be considered "magic" in the first place, considering that aside from drawing power from the Lodge, they have more to do with controlling the narrative and the film which he exists outside of (Hence why his Reality Warping is manifested as electricity and reality distorting into TV Static)
Yeah, but like I said, even BOB's lower-dimensional form already dissolves reality and the narrative around him, so I don't think Vecna would really be able to Precog events involving him.
Yeah, he can casually negate any magic with courermagic
Well, again, I'm not really sure if BOB's more esoteric powers can be considered "magic" in the first place, considering that aside from drawing power from the Lodge, they have more to do with controlling the narrative and the film which he exists outside of (Hence why his Reality Warping is manifested as electricity and reality distorting into TV Static)
Udlmaster
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>Yeah, but like I said, even BOB's lower-dimensional form already dissolves reality and the narrative around him, so I don't think Vecna would really be able to Precog events involving him.
Not sure why this would stop Precognition.
>Well, again, I'm not really sure if BOB's more esoteric powers can be considered "magic" in the first place, considering that aside from drawing power from the Lodge, they have more to do with controlling the narrative and the film which he exists outside of (Hence why his Reality Warping is manifested as electricity and reality distorting into TV Static)
Magic in D&D seems to be anything Supernatural, even Plot magic, such as a book which controls the Plot of an entire species is considered magic,
Not sure why this would stop Precognition.
>Well, again, I'm not really sure if BOB's more esoteric powers can be considered "magic" in the first place, considering that aside from drawing power from the Lodge, they have more to do with controlling the narrative and the film which he exists outside of (Hence why his Reality Warping is manifested as electricity and reality distorting into TV Static)
Magic in D&D seems to be anything Supernatural, even Plot magic, such as a book which controls the Plot of an entire species is considered magic,
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Not sure why this would stop Precognition.
I mean, assuming Vecna's Precognition works by peering forwards into time, I don't think it would really work against BOB in this case, given the narrative / film is actively being broken down into static around him on a greater scale than Vecna can perceive with his Precognition.
Magic in D&D seems to be anything Supernatural, even Plot magic, such as a book which controls the Plot of an entire species is considered magic
Again, the Plot Manipulation he's dealing with in this case works on a scale that's a tad bit above... Anything in his verse that isn't the Luminous Being, as far as I know, so I'm not sure if Power Nulling what you described will be enough to do the trick here.
How good is Vecna's Power Null anyways? You said it was him negating Magic with Countermagic, but as I've already explained, BOB's powers come from him manipulating the metaphysical energy which comprises the narrative of his setting, and which he is also fundamentally connected to / made of in the first place, so.
I mean, assuming Vecna's Precognition works by peering forwards into time, I don't think it would really work against BOB in this case, given the narrative / film is actively being broken down into static around him on a greater scale than Vecna can perceive with his Precognition.
Magic in D&D seems to be anything Supernatural, even Plot magic, such as a book which controls the Plot of an entire species is considered magic
Again, the Plot Manipulation he's dealing with in this case works on a scale that's a tad bit above... Anything in his verse that isn't the Luminous Being, as far as I know, so I'm not sure if Power Nulling what you described will be enough to do the trick here.
How good is Vecna's Power Null anyways? You said it was him negating Magic with Countermagic, but as I've already explained, BOB's powers come from him manipulating the metaphysical energy which comprises the narrative of his setting, and which he is also fundamentally connected to / made of in the first place, so.
Udlmaster
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>film is actively being broken down into static around him on a greater scale than Vecna can perceive with his Precognition.
But again, him affecting the narrative doesn't equate to him affecting things like Precognition.
Has this Narrative breaking existence ever affected Precognition in the series?
>Again, the Plot Manipulation he's dealing with in this case works on a scale that's a tad bit above... Anything in his verse that isn't the Luminous Being
Is Bob's hax while limiting himself 1-A? It seems contradictory for that to be the case.
>You said it was him negating Magic with Countermagic, but as I've already explained, BOB's powers come from him manipulating the metaphysical energy
Magic is the underpinning of all creation, when Mystra died, the Spellweave became corrupt. (The spellweave it basically the Multiversal lay lines of power where people draw magic from) When this happened it started to unravel the Multiverse as it is more fundamental than even the Gods.
If the Gods where actors on a stage, the stage itself would be magic.
But again, him affecting the narrative doesn't equate to him affecting things like Precognition.
Has this Narrative breaking existence ever affected Precognition in the series?
>Again, the Plot Manipulation he's dealing with in this case works on a scale that's a tad bit above... Anything in his verse that isn't the Luminous Being
Is Bob's hax while limiting himself 1-A? It seems contradictory for that to be the case.
>You said it was him negating Magic with Countermagic, but as I've already explained, BOB's powers come from him manipulating the metaphysical energy
Magic is the underpinning of all creation, when Mystra died, the Spellweave became corrupt. (The spellweave it basically the Multiversal lay lines of power where people draw magic from) When this happened it started to unravel the Multiverse as it is more fundamental than even the Gods.
If the Gods where actors on a stage, the stage itself would be magic.
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Has this Narrative breaking existence ever affected Precognition in the series?
I don't think Precognition involving the Spirits of the Lodge is something that ever happened in the series. The closest to this is people having dreams about a girl BOB murdered, but I don't really see why that stops us from pondering the logical effects of it, since the more esoteric forms of Precognition are sort of all about peering at future points in time to know them in advance, which is sorta complicated when time is being actively dissolved around the guy you are Precog'ing
Although, maybe I'm thinking more about Clairvoyance than Precognition...
Is Bob's hax while limiting himself 1-A? It seems contradictory for that to be the case.
At least part of it arguably is, yeah, since the Spirits messing with the fabric of the film is something they've showcased both in their 1-A states and in their manifestations within the physical world, and they can still freely access and tap into the power of the Lodge through their electricity anyways.
Magic is the underpinning of all creation, when Mystra died, the Spellweave became corrupt. (The spellweave it basically the Multiversal lay lines of power where people draw magic from) When this happened it started to unravel the Multiverse as it is more fundamental than even the Gods.
That's actually pretty similar to the concept of Electricity / Metaphysical Fire which the Lodge Spirits manipulate; It's sort of an aetherial substance which permeates and defines all levels of reality in the setting, and which the Spirits use to mess around with the narrative of the show and make forms for themselves. Although in that case it covers a much wider scope, unless there's some other High 1-B / 1-A D&D upgrade I haven't heard of.
Anyways, straying away from that same topic, what can Vecna do aside from Power Null / Precognition, again? Aside from turning him into static or something, I don't see what stops BOB from just BFR'ing Vecna to some higher plane of existence he can't return from, or just warping him to the Lodge and going along the ride, in which case he'd be 1-A anyways and proceed to reality warp Vecna into the ground, but I'm admitedly not sure if that'd be allowed here.
I don't think Precognition involving the Spirits of the Lodge is something that ever happened in the series. The closest to this is people having dreams about a girl BOB murdered, but I don't really see why that stops us from pondering the logical effects of it, since the more esoteric forms of Precognition are sort of all about peering at future points in time to know them in advance, which is sorta complicated when time is being actively dissolved around the guy you are Precog'ing
Although, maybe I'm thinking more about Clairvoyance than Precognition...
Is Bob's hax while limiting himself 1-A? It seems contradictory for that to be the case.
At least part of it arguably is, yeah, since the Spirits messing with the fabric of the film is something they've showcased both in their 1-A states and in their manifestations within the physical world, and they can still freely access and tap into the power of the Lodge through their electricity anyways.
Magic is the underpinning of all creation, when Mystra died, the Spellweave became corrupt. (The spellweave it basically the Multiversal lay lines of power where people draw magic from) When this happened it started to unravel the Multiverse as it is more fundamental than even the Gods.
That's actually pretty similar to the concept of Electricity / Metaphysical Fire which the Lodge Spirits manipulate; It's sort of an aetherial substance which permeates and defines all levels of reality in the setting, and which the Spirits use to mess around with the narrative of the show and make forms for themselves. Although in that case it covers a much wider scope, unless there's some other High 1-B / 1-A D&D upgrade I haven't heard of.
Anyways, straying away from that same topic, what can Vecna do aside from Power Null / Precognition, again? Aside from turning him into static or something, I don't see what stops BOB from just BFR'ing Vecna to some higher plane of existence he can't return from, or just warping him to the Lodge and going along the ride, in which case he'd be 1-A anyways and proceed to reality warp Vecna into the ground, but I'm admitedly not sure if that'd be allowed here.
Udlmaster
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>The closest to this is people having dreams about a girl BOB murdered, but I don't really see why that stops us from pondering the logical effects of it, since the more esoteric forms of Precognition are sort of all about peering at future points in time to know them in advance, which is sorta complicated when time is being actively dissolved around the guy you are Precog'ing
However, we know their hax works on beings who have Acausality, who are completely unbound by time in that sense, so the dissolving Of time wouldn't be something that can stop the Precognition.
>and they can still freely access and tap into the power of the Lodge through their electricity anyways.
How does this work? Is it like literal electricity which is just 1-A so it would one shot or is it like 1-A Plot/Conceptual attacking?
>Although in that case it covers a much wider scope, unless there's some other High 1-B / 1-A D&D upgrade I haven't heard of.
Not while I'm being held back, when I am the only D&D guy, we will finally see High 1-B LoP
>Aside from turning him into static or something, I don't see what stops BOB from just BFR'ing Vecna to some higher plane of existence he can't return from
Vecna could induce death Into Bob's Avatar or just seal his Avatar away.
However, we know their hax works on beings who have Acausality, who are completely unbound by time in that sense, so the dissolving Of time wouldn't be something that can stop the Precognition.
>and they can still freely access and tap into the power of the Lodge through their electricity anyways.
How does this work? Is it like literal electricity which is just 1-A so it would one shot or is it like 1-A Plot/Conceptual attacking?
>Although in that case it covers a much wider scope, unless there's some other High 1-B / 1-A D&D upgrade I haven't heard of.
>Aside from turning him into static or something, I don't see what stops BOB from just BFR'ing Vecna to some higher plane of existence he can't return from
Vecna could induce death Into Bob's Avatar or just seal his Avatar away.
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However, we know their hax works on beings who have Acausality, who are completely unbound by time in that sense, so the dissolving Of time wouldn't be something that can stop the Precognition
Yeah, but as I said, it's also the narrative of the film itself that's being messed with here. It's basically making frames disperse into static to show what's behind them, which occurs on a scale that's quite a bit above the 1-As Vecna's Precognition affects, given how reality opens up to directly reveal the Lodges and their higher layers.
How does this work? Is it like literal electricity which is just 1-A so it would one shot or is it like 1-A Plot/Conceptual attacking?
It's not literal electricity, no. Twin Peaks as a verse likes to delve into metafiction in some aspects, and often treats reality as being very much a literal movie / TV Show from the perspective of the Lodge Spirits, so their more abstract form of Reality Warping is almost always shown as electricity crackling, or the screen turning into static noise and the like. I'd say it's more aligned to the latter.
Not while I'm being held back, when I am the only D&D guy, we will finally see High 1-B LoP
wew
Vecna could induce death Into Bob's Avatar or just seal his Avatar away.
Going by the profile, Vecna's sealing consists of either trapping people into a pocket reality warded against Multiversal+ range or sealing them in an orb-thingy that can't be teleported out of. I am not sure if either of those are going to work, since BOB has 1-A range anyways, and his Teleportation isn't really the conventional type as much as him travelling through the frequencies of reality into higher / lower layers of existence.
As for Death Hax, I am not sure if that's going to work either, since BOB was born amidst "Black Fire", which as an element is representative of the concept of death and decay, and of the corruption of reality, and his essence is fundamentally connected to it too. How strong is Vecna's OHK stuff anyhow?
Yeah, but as I said, it's also the narrative of the film itself that's being messed with here. It's basically making frames disperse into static to show what's behind them, which occurs on a scale that's quite a bit above the 1-As Vecna's Precognition affects, given how reality opens up to directly reveal the Lodges and their higher layers.
How does this work? Is it like literal electricity which is just 1-A so it would one shot or is it like 1-A Plot/Conceptual attacking?
It's not literal electricity, no. Twin Peaks as a verse likes to delve into metafiction in some aspects, and often treats reality as being very much a literal movie / TV Show from the perspective of the Lodge Spirits, so their more abstract form of Reality Warping is almost always shown as electricity crackling, or the screen turning into static noise and the like. I'd say it's more aligned to the latter.
Vecna could induce death Into Bob's Avatar or just seal his Avatar away.
Going by the profile, Vecna's sealing consists of either trapping people into a pocket reality warded against Multiversal+ range or sealing them in an orb-thingy that can't be teleported out of. I am not sure if either of those are going to work, since BOB has 1-A range anyways, and his Teleportation isn't really the conventional type as much as him travelling through the frequencies of reality into higher / lower layers of existence.
As for Death Hax, I am not sure if that's going to work either, since BOB was born amidst "Black Fire", which as an element is representative of the concept of death and decay, and of the corruption of reality, and his essence is fundamentally connected to it too. How strong is Vecna's OHK stuff anyhow?
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